Chris Hipkins

That would be a really good place to start.

And they should be outcome-focused, not output-focused.

So rather than saying you'll deliver this many food parcels or whatever, you actually have some outcomes that are around the people who you're working with and the sort of outcome we're looking for.

And then give you the money,

So values matter in politics.

How you apply those values changes.

So you look at the Labour Party's history, we've always been about supporting the most vulnerable.

We've always been about providing opportunity.

We've always been about making sure that hard work

actually gets rewarded and people can create a better life through their own hard work.

So you look at our track record on that, because what works in 2035 isn't going to be the same as what worked in 1935 when the first Labour government was elected.

It's going to be different, but the values are still the same.

So those values of caring, the values of empathy and kindness, they still really matter.

Yeah, it is.

And we live in a different world now.

In the first Labour government, most families didn't have cars.

telecommunications as we know them certainly didn't exist then.

So the world's changed.

So the needs that we have have changed.

But one of the things that motivates me in politics is that we spend far too much time treating the symptoms, not the cause.