Chris Kempes

as Sean said, a byproduct of what we call an endosymbiotic event where one cell started living inside the other cell. And so you, in this case, have a bacteria likely living inside of an archaea.

as Sean said, a byproduct of what we call an endosymbiotic event where one cell started living inside the other cell. And so you, in this case, have a bacteria likely living inside of an archaea.

And the bacteria inside the archaea becomes this metabolic structure known as the mitochondria, which many people sort of associate with how life gets big and why life gets big and how organisms like us can produce so much energy. There's lots of other reasons that you might want a mitochondria. It distributes many copies of the metabolic genome throughout the cell.

And the bacteria inside the archaea becomes this metabolic structure known as the mitochondria, which many people sort of associate with how life gets big and why life gets big and how organisms like us can produce so much energy. There's lots of other reasons that you might want a mitochondria. It distributes many copies of the metabolic genome throughout the cell.

Nick Lane has written really nicely about that. It distributes certain sorts of metabolic processes throughout the cell in a structured way. All of this is sort of really beneficial. And we understand that it must be getting over limits that we saw out of bacteria. I think our perspective would be the main limits that you start to see are about transport, right?

Nick Lane has written really nicely about that. It distributes certain sorts of metabolic processes throughout the cell in a structured way. All of this is sort of really beneficial. And we understand that it must be getting over limits that we saw out of bacteria. I think our perspective would be the main limits that you start to see are about transport, right?

And so I would almost say you likely need to solve transport before you solve these other packaging problems around different sorts of genomes and having lots of internal metabolism and so forth. I think it's actually, you just can't

And so I would almost say you likely need to solve transport before you solve these other packaging problems around different sorts of genomes and having lots of internal metabolism and so forth. I think it's actually, you just can't

get substrates, the stuff that you use, products, the wastes in and out of the cell fast enough with diffusion alone for large bacteria to make the metabolism function. So you have to start adding active transport inside the cell, ways to stir the cytoplasm, ways to move packages around in the cytoplasm just to overcome the sort of challenges of diffusion.

get substrates, the stuff that you use, products, the wastes in and out of the cell fast enough with diffusion alone for large bacteria to make the metabolism function. So you have to start adding active transport inside the cell, ways to stir the cytoplasm, ways to move packages around in the cytoplasm just to overcome the sort of challenges of diffusion.

And I think you probably need to do that before you start to get things like the mitochondria and other sort of endosymbiotic events.

And I think you probably need to do that before you start to get things like the mitochondria and other sort of endosymbiotic events.

Exactly. And you could think of it as, you know, you can think of it as a drift process or a random walk process in evolution. And so if there is one of these walls, I think you expect an evolutionary time for a very long period of time. Things just keep hitting that wall and and be stuck in a certain size range. And then it's you're waiting for a chance event where some.

Exactly. And you could think of it as, you know, you can think of it as a drift process or a random walk process in evolution. And so if there is one of these walls, I think you expect an evolutionary time for a very long period of time. Things just keep hitting that wall and and be stuck in a certain size range. And then it's you're waiting for a chance event where some.

fairly big change to architecture happens for one reason or another, and that gets you just on the other side of the wall, and then you're off to the races in this other evolutionary trajectory. And then all of the physics of that region become a target for evolution, and then you may need to solve a bunch of problems successively.

fairly big change to architecture happens for one reason or another, and that gets you just on the other side of the wall, and then you're off to the races in this other evolutionary trajectory. And then all of the physics of that region become a target for evolution, and then you may need to solve a bunch of problems successively.

But many people would say it was harder to get the eukaryote than it was to get cellular life in the first place. Took longer. Yeah. It took longer, right? And I find that really interesting and surprising, right? And I also don't necessarily agree with that because I think there's other factors involved.

But many people would say it was harder to get the eukaryote than it was to get cellular life in the first place. Took longer. Yeah. It took longer, right? And I find that really interesting and surprising, right? And I also don't necessarily agree with that because I think there's other factors involved.

But that sort of thinking I think is really important to say you can just stall out at one level of complexity for a long time. Nothing wants you to get more complex. It's just if you stumble upon the right solution – that gets you over that hump. Then you're into this new valley with no competitors. You've got a new niche and we know it happens there.

But that sort of thinking I think is really important to say you can just stall out at one level of complexity for a long time. Nothing wants you to get more complex. It's just if you stumble upon the right solution – that gets you over that hump. Then you're into this new valley with no competitors. You've got a new niche and we know it happens there.