Chris Upton

They're not saying that you have absolute apathy towards the people around you, but it's just recognising the fact that you actually have to look after yourself.

You actually have to live your life and get that working and then worry about others.

And again, this comes back to the complexity, the beautiful complexity of brands and the relationships we have with them.

Really what brands, why they were created originally is that you have, used to have barrels of apples.

And one

week you'd go in and the apples would be fine the next week you go in the apples might have been terrible really what brands do is to give you a sense of confidence to give you a sense of reinsurance but also brands by their very nature are driven to improve to be better so you know that what you're going to get to justify their extra premium that you have to pay

I wouldn't say so.

Again, brands, by their very nature, are looking to improve, to make things better.

Commodities, on the other side, actually, for them, it's about keeping it the same.

So brands want to avoid being commoditized.

That is exactly it.

So brands, businesses, what you're always trying to do is build added value, build beyond the simple functional.

Otherwise, what happens is you've no competitive advantage.

Actually, people are still expecting brands to help on environmental issues.

They're still expecting brands to help on social issues.

Are they?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Again, the difference, it all comes down to the complex relationship we have.

So if you're deciding on a car, yes, absolutely, there'll be the rational.