Christina
Appearances
2 Bears, 1 Cave with Tom Segura & Bert Kreischer
Bad Thoughts About Meghan Markle | 2 Bears, 1 Cave
That's fucked.
2 Bears, 1 Cave with Tom Segura & Bert Kreischer
Bad Thoughts About Meghan Markle | 2 Bears, 1 Cave
Oh, my.
2 Bears, 1 Cave with Tom Segura & Bert Kreischer
Bad Thoughts About Meghan Markle | 2 Bears, 1 Cave
Right.
2 Bears, 1 Cave with Tom Segura & Bert Kreischer
Bad Thoughts About Meghan Markle | 2 Bears, 1 Cave
Bye.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Right now I'm in Phoenix, but I live in Salt Lake City normally.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
My boyfriend runs a local grocery store in Salt Lake. There are a bunch of food shows all over the country, which if we have time, I have an Aaron Weekly story to tell about a food show. Oh, did you meet him? Yes, I met him at the Chicago food show for Ted Seeger. And I really embarrassed myself. Please tell me that. Let's hear.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
He was so cute. We walked up and my boyfriend obviously knows how much I love the podcast. I was so excited to meet him. We have the same birthday.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So we walk up and my sister is an actress. And so I don't want to ever be starstruck. It's a very strong belief that I have. So I was trying to play it cool and I forgot how to speak English. I turned bright red. Oh my God. And my boyfriend was trying to be really sweet and was like, oh, my gosh, Christina is a huge fan of Armchair Expert. And then I got embarrassed and mad at him.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Like, I'm an arm cherry. I am not a fan. There is a distinguishable difference. I walked away and was like, well, I hope I never get the opportunity to meet Dax and Monica. Based on that, I hope that I can actually speak.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Yeah, but I couldn't get it out, sadly.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I do. This story takes place in the fall of 2013, kind of around Halloween when I was in college. I went to a small liberal arts college in Salt Lake. My roommates and I lived in this super charming 1900s house off campus. It had these beautiful original hardwood floors. It was just full of vintage charm. And we had no business living there. But I was a sophomore in college.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And at my school, I think because there's this big religious influence in Salt Lake, I found that there's a really strong counterculture to that. And my college really leaned into that counterculture. We embraced every opportunity to run wild. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
It was very fun. But at my school, Halloween wasn't just a fun holiday. It was the event of the year. There was an annual campus Halloween party, and it was obviously one of the most important nights of the year.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Yes, it was the night that you would probably hook up with someone that you wouldn't normally run into. You have some kind of life altering conversation that you wouldn't remember, make some kind of decision that would haunt you. It ended up being such a mess at the school that they eventually had to shut it down. So it doesn't exist anymore.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
But when I was there, it was like the pinnacle of college life. You were there at the right time. Since we were broke college students, my roommate and I decided that we couldn't justify spending money on Halloween costumes. We had to DIY it, but we still obviously wanted to look perfect for this night. At this time, we were also deep in a hippie phase.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
We were vegans and we loved patchouli and environmentalism and not showering to save water, all of that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Oh, so into jam bands. Naturally, we decided to kind of go along with that, that we were going to go as Mother Nature to this costume party for our DIY costumes. We thought it was sexy and organic and effortless. So our plan was to just buy a huge piece of brown fabric and hot glue real leaves straight from our front yard onto the fabric and then kind of wrap ourselves in it like a toga.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
We thought it was cute and cheap and sustainable. The day of the party, we went into our lawn, we just scooped up huge armfuls of these kind of damp leaves that had been outside for a while. We sat cross-legged on the hardwood floor of our living room, just surrounded by piles of leaves. And with a hot glue gun, we ended up gluing onto the fabric one by one these leaves.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And it took basically the whole day. The hot glue gun strings are like floating all around us. We're burning our fingers. But it was Halloween and it was important. Finally, we finished right before the party was about to start. So we reached down to pick up the fabric to kind of wrap ourselves in it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And we realized that the hot glue had bonded the fabric and all of the leaves directly to this original, beautiful, pristine 1900s hardwood floor.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
It wasn't even just stuff. It was like completely fused. Oh, no.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Whenever we would lift at the corners, it felt like we were pulling the hardwood floor up with the fabric. We couldn't do it. And obviously this party was about to start and our costumes glued to the floor. So in true 19-year-old fashion, fuck it, we'll deal with this tomorrow. So we wore like flannels and suspenders and were lumberjacks or something. Something stupid.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
No one knew what we were, but we didn't really care.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I would love that reaction. And that was not what we got. But it ended up being a fun night, I think. The next day was Sunday, and we were very, very hungover. And when we walked into...
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
the living room we were like we do not have the capacity to deal with these piles of leaves and this fused fabric the day passed and all of a sudden we were like back in the weekly routine oh wow okay so you just really keep kicking it down the road i could see this so we just leave it for some reason and it turns out that
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
The leaves that we collected that were sitting in our living room, they weren't just leaves. They were damp and decomposing and they were filled with lots of tiny, rapidly reproducing maggots.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
We kind of started to notice little wriggling things near the edges of the piles. And of course, we're like, huh, that's kind of strange, and just kind of left it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
it got worse rapidly reproducing is the worst phrase to hear before maggots yeah so we had a full-blown infestation they were in the kitchen but we had been so in our groove and we were never really at home in college finally driven by sheer horror we had to scrape up the glued fabric and the leaves and all of the insects.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And by the time we were done, this beautiful hardwood floor was just completely scratched beyond recognition. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
It was never the same through the rest of the time I lived there. We would like put a keg on top of that section. Like, well, it's already fucked. It can't get any worse.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Oh, I'm sure we did. We lived in this house for four years. So the number of things that happened in this house.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Thank you. And I just have to say, I am so grateful that you two exist in this world and I appreciate everything that you do. And so grateful that I got the opportunity to talk to you both.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
No. You'll never believe this, but I used Arm & Hammer. I used the baking soda toothpaste.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
Well, I doubt he wants to go out again with a whore.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
Wait a second. Rhett called you?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
No, he was like, oh, I've got something to show you. I really want you to see this.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
I mean, at first I just thought it was like his friend or something. I didn't realize it was his ex. And then when we get into this argument, she called me a whore. Oh, God.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
Yeah, like I said, she yelled at me and called me a whore.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
She was yelling back at her. It was so dramatic. This is a first date.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
No, before that. So I knew him from hiking. Like we hiked together with like a group and we were talking about our cats and he told me that Thorpe Bay is five. And my cat is 5'2". So I was like, oh, that's cool. They're the same age. But then his ex told me that Sorbet is 9.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
That's almost a five-year difference. That's crazy.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
Honestly, I think that he lied about his cat's age on purpose. I think he was trying to say that it was the same age as my cat, so then they would get along.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
Well, yeah, but, like, that's important to me. I have something to say here. Oh.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
Well, you might not think that's important, but I do. I don't have kids. I'm not planning on having kids anytime soon. My cat is my world. Like, I don't want my cat to be the little second sidekick cat because you have this older leader mean cat.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
My cat is plenty mature. Oh.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
I don't know what we're fighting about, really.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
Well, that wasn't cool, but neither is lying about the age of your cat. Why would you do that? Why would you lie about anything like that?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Date Night Detour
far a lot of cats that need adopted especially older ones you're dating i like the problem solving that's a positive so my cat's a third wheel now that's great what i am so confused at what you're upset at yeah you find very interesting things important for your dating life you got to think of it from my perspective if this does work out and we're together now we've got two full-time cats and one part-time cat that we're shuffling back and forth between his ex who thinks i'm a whore
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
This is exactly right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
For real. And for a second, I thought you were going to say her finger to make her throw up so she would not be so drunk.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
We've all been Chloe. We've all been Chloe. We've all been Chloe and we've all been Cho. Thank God for Cho. And thank God women are doing this for each other. Yeah. Like more and more now, kind of.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
connected in that way yeah because jesus looking out for each other i feel like you like don't have to mind your own business anymore because we're looking out for each other because guess who's gonna do it fucking nobody else nobody else it's up to you also but it's it's kind of funny like they're trying to get drunk and party themselves and then suddenly it's like here's you in four hours chloe yeah right chloe's like help me
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Oh, God damn. Okay. It says my illegal very first job. Lighthearted question mark. Hey, all you cool cats and kittens. And then in parentheses, it says, are we still doing that? My answer? No. I recently listened to Minnesota 401, where you read a hometown of a 10 year old who got to be a bartender for a day. I'm normally not a one-upper. And then in parentheses, yes, I am.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
But I knew I had to write in. Let's go, girls. And then in parentheses it says, said like the incomparable Miss Shania Twain. Oh, I heard it. I mean, how can you not? So it says, picture this. It's the early 90s. You walk into your local small-town Wisconsin dive bar on a Saturday morning. It reeks of stale beer, neon signs line the wall, and Saturday morning cartoons play on the TV. Why?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Because I'm your bartender every Saturday morning, and I am five years old. Let me explain. My parents never had a ton of money growing up, so they often had weekend jobs on top of their regular 9-to-5s. My mom, Bonnie, picked up shifts at our local hospital, working the counter that sold candy and other small items in the lobby.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
So on Saturdays while she did that, she couldn't watch my sister and I, and that left my dad. My dad's name is Mark, but for as long as I can remember, everyone called him Sugar. He was born diabetic, and he couldn't have sugar, so it seems like maybe his friends were just assholes. Who knows? I love that nickname for a man. I do, too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Anywho, my dad would pick up night and weekend shifts as a bartender around town. And on Saturday mornings, my nine-year-old sister and I would pack into his blue Chevy station wagon and head to our Saturday morning shift at a bar called Shimshack's, a.k.a. Shimmy's. When I say our shift, I mean it. My sister and I would take orders, pour beers, and handle money while my dad smiled on in pride.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
And then in parentheses it says he worked too. Imagine an irritated five-year-old walking up to you from behind the bar and using a bored tone as they ask, what are you having?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
So fun. So fun. I mean, how would you, I guess you'd have to be up on a higher. Yeah. They'd have to build you a little ramp.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Yes. Coach kind of was like a five-year-old. Right. It says, Right. And they were alcoholics, but okay. I mean, all of it combined.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Despite how this might sound, I have nothing but fond memories of opening the bar with my sister and dad, knowing what the usual was for the regulars, learning how to pour the perfect draft beer, and fighting with my sister over what TV shows we would have on the old dingy TV above the bar. I usually won, and we would watch dinosaurs. Oh, I remember that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
My dad passed away in April after a very long and complicated health battle. During his services, I looked around the packed room of guests, and there, sitting in the corner, was the shimmies crew. The ones who got to know us, helped teach us life lessons, and came to visit us every Saturday morning. Shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
I hadn't seen many of them in over 30 years, but I recognized them immediately. Most of them, well now into their 60s and 70s, would sheepishly walk up to me and start with, you probably don't remember me, but I absolutely did. It would only take a minute before we would be reminiscing about the good old days at the bar and telling ridiculous stories about sugar in his heyday. Love you both.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Proud of you both. Stay sexy and toast one up for sugar tonight. Sugar. Megan. Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Well, and also I think in Wisconsin, bar culture is pretty like neighborhood bars, right? Definitely. It's all, they're into it. So it's kind of like, yeah, they're repping their team. Those are their people. That's beautiful. What a sweet story.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
This has been an Exactly Right production.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
I mean, you know, there's a million incredible stories out there just waiting to be sent to my favorite murder at Gmail.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Yeah. You weren't close. You were in a very bad situation. He chose not to do anything.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
He wasn't even hitchhiking. It's like you are going out of your way to not ask SDGM. And also that guy, like, if you haven't listened to the podcast, True Crime Bullshit, and you are interested in Israel Keys and kind of the story, that guy has been doing that podcast for a while. And it is the deepest dive of all time. Fascinating. Yeah. Okay, here's mine. It says, made up parent story.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Hey, Karen and Georgia and everyone on the MFM team. You recently asked for stories about stuff our parents told us or did to us as kids. I think I have a banger story for you. I was 10 or 11 and it was the late 90s in Australia. My family went for our annual trip before Christmas from Sydney to the sunny Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia and stayed at an upmarket golf resort.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
My brother and I are born on the same day. three years apart. That sucks. Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Yeah, that really sucks. You're just always sharing. I don't know if there's a phrase to refer to this kind of scenario, and then a question mark, and then it says not quite twins. Anyway, he was either 13 or 14 at the time. At this stage in our lives, we fought a lot. And then it says we're very close now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
One morning, Dad was playing a round of golf, and Mom was left with us in the room whilst getting ready for the day. She was putting on her makeup, and my brother and I were wrestling in an empty bathtub and yelling at each other. Eventually, Mom had had enough. So left us in the room to go and get coffee and go for a morning walk.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Ten minutes pass and a phone call comes to the room phone, leaving my brother and I to fight over who answered the phone first. I was the unlucky and unwitting victim who picked up the receiver and heard, hello, we've had a complaint about excessive noise coming from your room. I think this was one of the first times in my life where I felt my heart fall out of my arse. I apologized quickly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
My brother was asking questions and flustered. I hung up the phone. We both began freaking out, thinking our holiday was ruined and that dad and mom would be so pissed at us for the noise complaint. Finally, dad showed up after golf and was upset with us because he said, I've never been kicked out of a hotel before. You two are diabolical.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
I was in tears, my brother was very subdued, and there was general unease in the room. Cut to mom coming back from her walk and shopping, of course. A few hours later, brother and I beside ourselves, and mom walks in and says, did you enjoy the noise complaint? The original trolls, how dare they?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Long story short, mom caught up with dad on her walk, and they came up with a plan to make us shut the fuck up for five minutes. It was a great success, and I will never forget the terror that rose in my body that day. A bonus story is that Dad used to make up facts and tell them to me. Don't do that. We do that all the time on this show. Oh, wait, yeah, that's true.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
He once convinced me that chipolata sausages, which are, I guess, what they call the mini sausages over there, were made out of chips. I told everyone in school, and they were so confused. Anyway, I write this after a very long day of giving chemotherapy to patients battling cancer. Love, Edwina, the nurse from Sydney. Wow. Edwina, you have the best name. Yeah, you do. You have the best name.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
That was a great story. Good one. Thanks for doing that hard work.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
That is totally insane. All right. Subject line of this is hot dog hometown. Cool. And then in parentheses, it says two minute, 15 second read. Yes, I timed it. Hello, MFM fam. I'm a longtime listener, multiple email author, and hopefully a first time Minnesota feature. My hometown is Rochester, New York. You know her. She's featured in episode 19, Minnesota 202 and episode 386. Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
I did your research. In addition to being the home of George Eastman and the alphabet killer, Rochester is the birthplace of the garbage plate. The garbage plate was originated by Alexander Tahu, I think, T-A-H-O-U, Tahu? Tahu, yeah, Tahu. A Greek immigrant who founded the restaurant Nick Tahoe's Hots in 1918.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
In its original form, the dish consisted of hots, either standard hot dogs or Rochester-style white hots, served with potatoes, cold beans, and Italian bread with butter. The dish evolved over time to become a modifiable dish of three elements. One, hot dogs or hamburgers. Two, macaroni salad or potato salad. And three, French fries or fried potatoes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
All three elements are piled together on one plate. If you want to take the express track to a heart attack, you can top it off with chili like hot meat sauce. It is the greatest hangover food ever invented, and everyone should try it. Oh, my God. This is purely just information about you have to know this about Rochester.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Please tell us. Do you want to tell us about your hot dog from your hometown? Send us your hot dog. There's just a little bit more. It says thank you for the community you created, for the money you donated, for the voices you amplified. But the most important thing you both do is tell stories with the victims in mind.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Now that true crime has become mainstream and famous killers get multiple shows or are mentioned as a dream dinner guest by out-of-touch celebrities, it is incredibly important that the victims are remembered. Of all of the true crime podcasts and shows out there, only few focus on the innocent victims, which you two have consistently done.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Thanks for all the laughs, inside jokes, and my favorite face mask. S-S-D-G-M, Christina, she, her. Oh, my God.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 410
Did it get you? It got me. Thank you for saying that. That was very, very sweet. And Christina, we appreciate your appreciation. We do. I'm like a little choked up.
Serialously with Annie Elise
262: Real-Life White Lotus Murder, Austin Metcalf & Necrophilia on NYC Train
Ah. Aber was sagen die Polizei in Georgia? Was haben sie dir gesagt? It was a coding error. It was a coding error and he was accidentally released.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
She said, I'm going to be in the same boat as you. I'm going to be going through a divorce and we'll just, we'll make it together. We'll make it on our own together and we'll be here for each other.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
She knew that I had had a therapist appointment that day, so she was checking in on me, knowing that I was going through my possible divorce separation. And I was very emotional. And so being supportive, she was calling and checking in on me to see how my appointment was.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
She was not into anything. She didn't do drugs. She barely even would have a glass of wine. She didn't know any people like that. She was just working and taking care of herself and completely...
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
straight and narrow and it's like why would somebody want to do that to her she lived so modestly because she was paying her own bills this one little tiny one-bedroom apartment in west palm beach gwen greenblatt was an innocent victim totally innocent clean as the driven snow she was she was a lady that all she wanted
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
And I was just going on and on, telling her about what I had discussed with the therapist and what the therapist was telling me.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
So she let out a huge scream, and I heard her dog barking, so I knew she was home. She lived on the top floor and the third floor, had outside stairs, very, very, very steep stairs. So immediately when I heard her let out this scream and heard her dog barking, I thought, okay, she had gotten home, she grabbed the leash, was going to take the dog out for a walk, and fell down the stairs.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
That's what I thought. And I thought she heard herself, and so I'm waiting on the phone, and I keep saying, go ahead and pick up, go ahead and pick up, and nothing. I didn't hear the dog barking anymore. I didn't hear her making any noises. I heard nothing. But I knew the phone was still connected. I got on my cell phone and called her home phone, so now I had all our lines linked up.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
And her old-style answering machine picked up, and I could hear myself through the phone talking and leaving the message. And I was saying, Gwen, pick up the phone now. You're scaring me. I'm super worried. Pick up the phone. If you don't pick up the phone, I'm going to call the police. Pick up the phone now. And nothing.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
It was not a friendly dog. So that was another thing that we always thought about is, this dog was not like, let me just lick you and everything's going to be okay. Anytime I even would come over, the dog would bark. And honestly, I kept my hands up because I was afraid the dog was maybe going to snap at me.
The Deck
Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
Every time we're together, she's getting phone call after phone call. Like, he would blow up her phone. Just call, call, call, call. Sometimes she's like, I'm not going to answer. And then sometimes she would answer, and I would hear him yelling.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Yeah, so like he said, I am tired. Come 8 o'clock, I'm ready to tap out and retire. But I try to explain to him, there's a biological connection I have with the children. I'm a light sleeper, so any little breath feels like I wake up. So I feel like I'm not getting adequate sleep, although...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
You know, I fall asleep early, but it's like I'm trying to explain to him the different ways that men and women approach sex. Like he can go and I need like a. I need time to build it. And I love him and I'm attracted to him. That's not the thing, but I'm very much aware our marriage is a movement. I really value that. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Tremendously, because my first orgasm was with my husband.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And I have to get there mentally. I'm being honest. Everything before him was performative, you know? And I like that Esther said to make it an experience again. Like, remember... It's something that we share that nothing, no one else, you know, something supernatural happens. And I feel it when we're there, but initially it's, I feel like it's a chore to get there.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
But if I can train my mind to think, where do I want to go with him right now? This is our secret place and train myself there. I feel like I can, like anything, work a muscle again, you know, and tap into the erotic side.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I just want to cuddle and it's going to spark. So let me go to sleep.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Fall asleep. I'm just tired.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
And I'm a constable manager at Kennesaw State University.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
I think we're at about $100,000. You know, last year was a little bit of a hit from everybody.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
So I actually started when we first got married 15 years ago. We just celebrated our 15th year anniversary.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
And so our first year, you know, I'm actually not originally from here. So we knew each other in person from before. And then when I moved here, it was really the first time we did anything together. And we got married in July of 2008. And it was, you know...
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
great year to get married so we pretty quickly figured out that you know our finances will need some improvement pretty quickly we had a little bit of debt I grew up living pretty frugally and so we had some arguments and by the end of that year we knew we sold the car that he had some debt on and then when I got a job we actually paid all of our debt
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
Our biggest issue was the underwater mortgage for the townhome that was purchased in 2007. So, you know, we were kind of bopping along for a couple of years. Then we had kids and I ended up staying at home. It was pretty tight. And we were still kind of trying to figure out what are we going to do about the house eventually. This has still not come up to the value that it was.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
And at some point we got an email from our church. We go to Woodstock City Church. introducing Financial PC University. And in there, I was like, ah, you know, I'm pretty frugal. I keep my budget, you know, after the fact, I got on the track of what was spent. But it said, it will show you how you can buy and sell a house. So I'm like, you know, why don't we take this class?
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
So when we went and took the class, I was like, you know, where have y'all been before? So we did quite a few, um, things followed quite a few things. Um, one of them was, um, we immediately refined that house to a 15 so that we could start paying, um, down the, the, the, what we owed on it. And, um,
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
from the seven percent interest rate yes i had been paying on yes so i bought it essentially our payment stayed the same but you know more was going yeah she went down to what a three uh it was a four right around four at the time in um 20 it was 2013 um and so yes 2013 i contacted one of the lps we loved her lindsey has um a shout to her she came out because we knew we couldn't sell the house right away so she showed us what to do you know it's just uh
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
You know, shouldn't charge anything for that. So we started over the next couple of years, we started doing some upgrades to the house. Like we painted, we redid the, not redid the deck, but we cleaned up the deck and some other stuff. And so when the time came in 2016, we were still kind of figuring out whether we're staying in the area or whatnot.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
And then our HOA was kind of going down the hill. We decided it was time to put it up for sale. Again, Lindsay helped us through that process. She was a great selling and buying agent. There were several offers on the house that we were looking at to buy. And we had had enough equity, gotten enough equity out of the house.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
And we had had some savings from a sale of an apartment that I had back home. I'm not originally from the U.S. And it was about $20,000. So we were able to put 20% down, like you mentioned.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
another shout out I wanted to do to Rachel. I remember her talking about how, you know, if you want to, cause I wanted to get, um, a change in the career. And so I went and took, um, classes at a smaller college, you know, not a four year college cause that we could cashflow at the time. And then now that I work at KSU, I went ahead and finished my bachelor degree debt.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
Um, but you know, they pay for it, they pay for it. Right. And I'm working on my master. So quite a few accomplishments along, along the way. Um,
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
So that was incremental. I started this full-time job in 2018. I was looking at numbers, and we actually averaged about 108. My latest promotion was in January to the manager position that was senior accountant. So how big of a bump was that for you?
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
Every morning, you know, I am the nerd. He's the free spirit in the sense that, you know, I worry about my spreadsheets. But every Sunday, we get together, we sit, and we just talk. You know, we dream. And so, you know, one of his hugest contributions is he's actually worked overtime for the last 10 years.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
six days a week pretty much every week. So there was a lot of, you know, it wasn't easy. No. How old are you two?
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
This is Kira, and she's 10 1⁄2.
The Ramsey Show
How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty
One, two, three. We are debt-free! Yay!
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time To Cut Debt out of Your Life!
So my husband and I are on baby step two. We've paid off $39,000 since November, which we're very proud of.
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time To Cut Debt out of Your Life!
You got the move. Thank you. However, we still have $126,000 of student loan debt, a car loan, and we have not yet purchased our first home. And I'm almost 40, and I recently listened to a show that addressed retirement, and I'm feeling so discouraged that we'll never catch up since we're starting this journey so late.
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time To Cut Debt out of Your Life!
We gross $200,000 a year, and my question is, is it still possible for us to become baby step millionaires?
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time To Cut Debt out of Your Life!
Oh, I have my teacher. So I do have a pension that has about $89,000 in it. All right.
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time To Cut Debt out of Your Life!
I've been feeling, with every celebration, I feel so much just shame and guilt and worry. So this was what I needed. Thank you so much.
The Ramsey Show
Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple
Hi there. Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. I love learning about how to best utilize our money and need your guys' help with something because I've been wrestling it around in my head with many different scenarios. So my husband and I want to build a modest lake home in our retirement, but I'm just cautious. I don't want to make a mistake or spend unwisely.
The Ramsey Show
Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple
So just a bit of background. My husband and I have had a few hard goes in life, but now after putting our noses to the grindstone on our own, we've established financial security. We think we've been in collaboration with our financial advisor. And so our financial picture looks like this. It's a little bit different in Canada. We have RRSPs for retirement savings.
The Ramsey Show
Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple
And my husband has $750,000 in his. I have $150,000 in mine. We have combined $300,000 in our tax-free savings account. We have an extra $140,000 saved up in cash. Our primary house is worth $440,000, and that is paid off. Awesome. We have an additional rental house that's worth about $400,000, but we have $150,000 worth of mortgage still on that.
The Ramsey Show
Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple
What I alluded to earlier, I know this was a poor decision, but we were doing the best we could without any parental guidance or help. We bought Universal Life, and so we have $650 that will be a payout on our debt. And so thoughts moving forward, I just recently retired. So as well as my 150 in my RSP, I have a defined pension benefit of $3,000 a month. My husband, I'm 54.
The Ramsey Show
Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple
And so I'm hoping because I've gone through some tough health issues that I could retire. And my husband is 56 and he's looking at maybe working for a couple more years. And so our financial advisor really feels strongly that, you know, we are okay to be able to, you know, have some good deaccumulation strategies in retirement and we should have kind of a nice little legacy at the end.
The Ramsey Show
Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple
Well, see, that's the thing. I have to figure out all the nuances about RSPs and tax-free savings, but we don't really want to tap into that. So our thoughts are that if we kept both of our homes, like the one that we've paid off, our primary home, and we can use the rental income to help boost our income in retirement, we could remortgage our rental property.
The Ramsey Show
Don’t Overcomplicate Building Wealth, Keep It Simple
So that money... Can I be honest with you?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Again, Christina really wanted full custody for the safety of her children, but she knew that she needed to be as complicit as possible with these court battles, so she cautiously agreed to let Gunner split his time with his father. Again, she wanted to appease Sunny while continuing to fight for the children.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She was afraid that Sunny would take the kids and leave the country with them, so she thought that this would at least settle them for now. So, Gunner lived with his dad most of the time, and every Wednesday and every other weekend, he would go to his mother's.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
This agreement seemed to work for a bit, but by the middle to end of November in 2013, Gunner expressed to his mom that he didn't want to be at his father's house because he was scared. Apparently, that weekend, he was all alone at his dad's house because Sonny went out of town and just left Gunner there. Christina offered to bring Gunner to her house that weekend,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
but because it was technically Sonny's weekend for him to be there, Gunner expressed that he was scared of what his dad would do if he found out that he left and went to his mother's house. Christina would later say that she didn't know exactly what Sonny was doing to scare or threaten Gunner, but she knew that Gunner was a smart kid.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He would know if his dad was going to hurt him, and Christina said that she knew too. So Christina went to the AT&T store to buy Gunner a secret cell phone and arranged to meet up with him in secret to give him that phone. Sonny would check Gunner's cell phone and he knew that if his dad found this kind of communication between him and his mom, that Sonny would be enraged.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
So she bought him a secret cell phone and told him to hide it from Sonny. She gave it to him so that he could call her whenever he wanted in secret. Then, because of all of that, Christina went to her attorney's office on Monday, December 9th, 2013, and told him that she needed full custody of Gunnar right now because his life was in danger.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
And to that, she was told that the courts are really backed up because of the holidays, so they couldn't do anything. That following Wednesday, Christina took Gunnar shopping. They went to his favorite clothing store, Polo Ralph Lauren, and she bought him a bunch of new clothes to keep at her house so that Gunnar didn't always have to pack a bag when he was switching between houses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
while also pursuing a Master's of Business Administration degree at Norwich University. He also worked as an F-16 pilot with the National Guard while working part-time as an associate at a local law firm. Then, by the time of the incident, Sonny was working as an executive for Timberlane Dental in South Burlington.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
That next weekend, he spent with his mother again. That weekend, Gunnar had some friends over and he just had the best time. They rode around on four-wheelers and Gunner had this potato gun, so they shot some apples in the backyard with the potato gun. They went skiing that Saturday and then watched a movie that night. By December 16th, Monday morning, Christina made Gunner his favorite breakfast.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
They had Belgian waffles before she dropped Gunner off at school that morning. That afternoon, Gunner called Christina and asked her if she could pick him up from school instead of Sonny since he left some things at the house by accident.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
so she picked him up and took him to mcdonald's as a treat which she said she didn't really like doing but that day she said why not then after going to mcdonald's she took him to the store to pick out a keyboard for his birthday which was only a few weeks away then as they drove back to sunny's house christina assured gunner that this was only temporary he was set to spend christmas at his mom's house and after that she had every intention of keeping him
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She was hopeful that she would get full custody after the holidays were over. That same day, Sonny had actually called Christina and asked her to come over so that they could talk about Gunner, but she ignored the message. Gunner was dropped off at Sonny's home and went inside alone. That following day at 7 p.m. on Tuesday, December 17th, one of Gunner's friends, Johnny, called Christina.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He was worried about Gunner because he wasn't answering his phone or responding to any texts. Gunner had always had his phone with him, literally sleeping with his phone every night, so there was no reason why he shouldn't be answering. So, Christina tried calling Gunner as well, and he wasn't answering her either.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She tried calling Sunny, and it was going straight to voicemail, which means that his phone was turned off, which was also very unusual. Then, she even tried calling Sunny's mother, who also didn't answer. Then Christina called the principal of the school that Gunner went to and found out that he hadn't been to school that day either.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
It turned out that Sonny had called the school on Monday night at around 10pm and left a voicemail telling them that Gunner would be out of school for the next few days. As time passed with no answer from either Sonny or Gunner, Christina got more and more worried. Some of Gunner's friends came over to the house all to try and figure out where Gunner could be but no one had seen him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
No one had any idea of where he could be. So they drove past Sunny's apartment and they found that the car was still in the parking lot where it should have been and it was covered in snow. It hadn't snowed since earlier that morning so they knew that the car had been there all day. So, the next stop they made was to the police department. She told the police that she needs help.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She believes her son is in danger. But they told her that they were short-staffed and that it would just have to wait until the morning. So, Christina left and started calling around to anybody that she could. She called her sister who told her to relax and just go to bed and try to get some sleep. but she couldn't.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
So clearly, Sonny was a very accomplished man, but beyond his accomplishments and his career, he also had a wife and two children. Sonny met Christina Shoemaker in Vermont in the early 90s, while they both happened to be working out at a local gym. Sonny introduced himself to Christina, who was a dancer at the time,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She knew that Sonny had family in both France and Russia, so at that point, her fear was that he had left the country with Gunnar. That was her fear the entire time that they were battling for custody. So, she contacted the Amber Alert to see if there was anything that they could do, but again, she was turned down.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
The next morning, a friend of Christina's called her to let her know that she heard about some sort of incident going on on the news, but she wasn't exactly sure what was going on. So the friend picked Christina up and drove her to Sonny's apartment. When they got there, they saw that the cops were everywhere. They were surrounding the apartment.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
So Christina got out to talk to an officer and she said that when that officer looked at her, she just could see in his eyes that Gunnar was gone. In that moment, she just started screaming and breaking down.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
It turned out that Sonny had been seeing another woman during that time and on that day, December 18th, the girlfriend had come to Sonny's residence and when she walked inside, she found that both Sonny and his son Gunnar were both dead inside. So, she immediately called the police. After police found their bodies, they were sent off to the medical examiner for an autopsy.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
It turned out that Gunner had died from asphyxia and Sonny had died from hanging himself. It was a murder-suicide. And according to Christina, she believes that Sonny wanted to kill her and Elise as well. Like I said, he invited her and Elise over for dinner on the evening of the 17th.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
That same evening was when Gunnar stopped replying, so it seems clear that this was the evening that Sonny murdered his son by strangling him and he was also planning on killing Christina and Elise that same night before killing himself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
saying that he just moved to Vermont, working as a pilot for the National Guard, and he was looking to meet people. He was handsome and charming, so Christina told him that she was going jet skiing that afternoon, and he asked if he could join her. So she told him if he could make it on time, that he could come. Things blossomed from there, and the couple were married by October of 1994.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
At the scene, when Christina was being told that her ex-husband and son were dead, she broke down as any other mother would. She grabbed her hair and started shaking and screaming, you didn't listen and now he's dead. Christina's sister arrived to the scene around that same time and just offered comfort in whatever way she could.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
But the following day, Christina had an appointment with her psychiatrist. The appointment had already been booked previously, so she went to that appointment as scheduled. But when she got there, there were four security guards there. Apparently, Christina's sister called her psychiatrist and said that she was a danger to herself and others and that she needed to go away.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
When she found this out, she was outraged. Christina flew into a panic and started yelling, so she was placed into handcuffs. Then she was involuntarily committed to Fletcher Allen Healthcare in Burlington on a 72-hour hold. While there, she found herself locked in a secure unit being given antipsychotics.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She was allowed to attend her son's funeral, but she wasn't allowed to be with her daughter during that time. Then she started refusing medication and stopped working with the medical staff. She said that she was alone and away from her daughter in a time where she just found out about her son being murdered and all she wanted to do was comfort her daughter and be there for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Her daughter also just found out that her brother and her dad were now dead. But they weren't letting Christina be there for her. By all accounts, she did truly act in a manner that was concerning to the staff around her. She was yelling at the staff, slamming doors in the doctors' faces, throwing chairs, and screaming at the doctors as well.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She was mentally unwell as we know but again she had just found out that her son was murdered at the hands of her ex-husband and she was being held against her will. She sat and watched as somebody else got to write her son's obituary and hold services for him that she wasn't allowed to attend. I can't even begin to imagine how painful and awful that must have been for her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She was held in that psychiatric unit for over a month before a judge ordered her immediate release on January 24th.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
By 1996, Christina gave birth to their daughter, Elise. Then, by January 7th, 1999, they had their son, Gunnar. Gunnar was a freshman at Essex High School at the time of his death. Gunnar was known for having an amazing sense of humor, a ton of energy, and a sense of adventure. He was curious and passionate for life.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
After that, police continued to investigate the whole ordeal and they came to find out that Sonny had actually been planning this for a while and he did so very extensively. Police found out that just a day before the deaths, Sonny had sent out multiple packages that he sent out to various family members and friends with one being delivered to Christina.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
In the package to Christina, there was a multiple page document that outlines Sonny's motivations for his actions. Other documents that he sent to other family members said much of the same. Using this, police have said that there was substantial planning before the murder-suicide.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
But they would not elaborate further, and to this day, they haven't released the note or any other documents that were sent out to the family and friends. They also haven't revealed any of the other documents that showed the planning. All I know is that they combed through his phone records and financial records, and they came to that conclusion.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
To those on the outside, it seemed that Sonny and Christina were just the best parents who gave their children the perfect lives. They had a nice house with a fenced-in yard in Essex Junction in Vermont and the kids went to a private school. They rode four-wheelers, dirt bikes, relaxed in the hot tub, and spent their summers at Cape Cod.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Another thing that they found out that we actually do have details on is that Sonny actually changed his will right before the deaths. On December 16th, he actually requested to change the executor of his will to his sister. He wrote that he leaves all of his tangible property to his sister.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He also wrote in the will, "...I intentionally omit making any provisions in this will for my wife, Christina F. Shoemaker. I am doing that because of the ongoing divorce proceedings that she initiated." He wrote in his will that should his children survive him, that he wants his sister to be their legal guardian.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He also requested that his sister distribute his ashes at the time and place of his choosing. So clearly, he knew that he was going to die and he wanted to make sure that if anybody survived, that his ex would get nothing. So I think that we can see that he clearly planned this. He planned to kill himself and his son. And I do agree that I think he tried to kill Christina and Elise too.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
but he knew he wouldn't be able to, so he acted out and killed his son and then himself. In the aftermath of this, Christina has come out to say that she has a lot of anger towards Sonny, of course. But after quite a while of trying to make sense of this and mourning the deaths, she said, quote, I finally got to the fact that my daughter still has to live her life and it's still her father.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
I decided that he was a good guy that did bad stuff because he was messed up and mentally ill and he needed help and he didn't get it. It's taken a lot to get there. I had a lot of anger for Sunny. I had a lot of anger for Sunny. She went on to say that what she is mad about is those who chose not to believe her. Those who she went to and tried to get help for her son but ignored her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She said that because of her mental health issues, everybody passed off her worry for her son's well-being as paranoid delusions. They thought that because of her diagnosis that she was manic depressive and was making things up. She said, quote, nobody ever believed me. I told the judge that summer. I told the attorney the week before they didn't believe me.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
I told the local police they didn't believe me and I hate them. I hate them for it because nobody listened and now my son is dead and they could have saved him and I couldn't. So that's pretty much where the case sits right now. Obviously, this was an extremely tough case to get through.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
It's yet another case where there are genuine concerns and law enforcement gets involved, the courts are told about what is going on, yet nobody does anything and the kids are just left to live with their abuser. Gunner was only 14 years old, almost 15, when he died. I'm sure that his whole life he was confused.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He was beaten, abused, but his father clearly went to great lengths to manipulate him and make him believe that living with him was the better option. It reminds me a whole lot of the Grant and Gracie Solomon case, how Angie had been thought to have all of these mental health issues to the point that Aaron Solomon convinced his kids and everybody else that she was dangerous and mentally unstable.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
even though he was the one hurting his children. Then to know that Gunnar's father took his life when he was the one who stuck with him is just so sad and heartbreaking. It's infuriating, it's sad, and I just wish it didn't happen the way that it did. But that is all I have for today's case.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
The family traveled all around the world to places like Bermuda, Rome, France, London, Switzerland, Washington, Alaska, and Montana. Sunny loved telling everyone around them all the places that they've been to and all the stuff that they've done together as a family. But as you can expect, I wouldn't be making a video about this family to tell you about how perfect they were.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
I honestly don't think any more information will be released because it's been a couple of years since this case was solved. There's nobody going to trial as far as I know. There's no other charges being brought in this case because the perpetrator has died. So I don't think we're going to be finding out too much more.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
I'm really interested in learning what those documents say, what the notes say, but I don't think police want us to know at this point. So that's where it's left. But yeah, that's all I have for you guys today. So let me know what you think about this case in the comments below. Do you think more could have been done to prevent this from happening?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Do you think that Sunny was also planning to kill Christina and Elise that night as well? Let me know this and any other thoughts that you have in the comments below.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
if you like this video please make sure to go ahead and leave this video a thumbs up and subscribe to my channel i put out new true crime and mystery videos every single week don't forget to turn that notification bell to on so you don't miss out on any of my future videos make sure you go ahead and check out my facebook instagram and twitter all will be linked down below and if you have absolutely any case suggestions please make sure to go ahead and fill out the google form that is also listed down below as well with that i hope you guys have an amazing week stay safe stay healthy
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
And I hope to see you next time. Bye.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
According to Christina, there was never really a time in their marriage where they were truly happy. It seems as soon as they got married, Sonny began to abuse Christina. She said that it started as financial control and emotional abuse. Even though Christina had her own full-time job as a financial officer at GE Healthcare Corporation, Sonny always had control over the home's finances.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
So the case that I have for you all today is a very frustrating, angering case. The way this case was handled is just going to make you want to scream. This should not have happened the way that it did and I'm really looking forward to hearing what you all think after learning the details. I also want to make the disclaimer that a lot of the information in this video is alleged.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He wouldn't even let Christina know what was going on with their financials. He wrote Christina a check for $3,000 each month for bills, but he wouldn't give her access to money outside of that. He insisted that she pay for everything on credit cards and checked the transactions that she made several times a day. He made sure that she never spent money on things that he didn't want her to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He would emotionally abuse her, allegedly, if she ever went out of line and did anything beyond what he wanted her to do. It was the same way with the children as well. Christina would later say that with the vacations and traveling, Sonny wanted everybody to know how great they were, but the children were miserable. They didn't necessarily want to go on all of those vacations.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She says that if you look at the pictures of the children on vacation, they all look miserable. Then Sunny wrote a list of house rules that the family was to follow. They framed and hung them up on the wall and made three-year-old little Gunnar agree to and sign the rules before he even knew how to write or knew how to understand the rules that he was agreeing to.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
they are as follows i will not lie i will keep my promises and i will be trustworthy i will not cheat i will not steal i will not tolerate anyone who lies cheats or steals i will keep myself physically strong mentally awake and morally straight i will keep myself clean and my body healthy i will strive to always learn more i will help keep my home and community clean i will honor my duty of loyalty to my family my nation and my friends
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
I will try to help strangers. I will do things willingly for others without pay or reward. I will be respectful to my parents, family, teachers and other adults. I will be courteous. I will not use profanity. I will respect living things. I will not hurt or kill harmless things without reason. I will follow the rules of this family and my school. I will obey the laws of my community and country.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
If I think the rules or laws are unfair, I will try to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them. As you can see, the adorable little signature that Gunnar had was just precious. But you can also see that Sonny just wanted to control his family and give this appearance of a perfect family, when in reality, he was controlling, manipulative, and abusive behind closed doors.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Now, when it comes to these family rules, I don't necessarily think that any of them are bad. Like, I don't think that this was anything that shouldn't be expected of people in general, but I do think the fact that they were printed out and signed by Gunnar is just another way of him being like, look, you disrespected the rules that you agreed to, so now the punishment that you get
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
is because of your own actions, etc. As with so many situations of control, manipulation, and emotional and verbal abuse, things only grew out of control and they grew into physical abuse. Christina says that this started through things that would seem innocent enough but were actually just Sonny's excuse to physically harm Gunnar.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Who, by the way, it seemed that Gunner was the main target for the abuse outside of Christina. We don't know that for sure. Elise could have been abused as well. But because she wasn't necessarily involved in what happened at the end, we don't really know much about what happened with her. But we know what Christina has told us, essentially.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Anyways, for example, there were times, allegedly, that Sonny would say, "'Let's wrestle,' to Gunner." Which, again, seems innocent enough. some rough play between a father and his son. But he was a trained military professional, so he would use all sorts of military pinches and holds on Gunner.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
It's mostly from one point of view who you will learn more about in just a few minutes. A lot of the claims are not necessarily confirmed by the police, so don't take them all as complete fact. More so accounts from those who were involved in this case. Let's start the video off with introducing Christina and Ludwig Sonny Shoemaker, who went by Sonny.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Then to Christina, he would do moves where he would hold her neck and restrict her breathing to threaten her, but he never left bruises on either of them. He always knew how to intimidate and physically harm both Christina and Gunnar in a way that they couldn't tell anyone because it didn't leave marks. Again, this is all alleged by Christina's retelling.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Christina went on to say that if she ever threatened to tell, he would say things like, "'It's my word against yours, and I'm a military officer.'" So who's going to believe you? These are just a few small examples of physical abuse at the hands of Sunny that Christina has reported, but there is so much more to that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
This was years and years and years of control and manipulation tactics, threats, violence, and physical beatings to keep Christina in line. When she was later asked about why she didn't leave, she said that she knew he would kill her if she tried to leave and if she ever did run off with the kids, he would hunt her down or would have someone else hunt her down.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She was afraid to lose her kids to him, so she stayed so she could avoid that and protect her children from the monster that Sunny allegedly was. But near the beginning of 2013, the pressure became far too much to handle. Christina said that she had a nervous breakdown. She literally shut down to the point that she couldn't do laundry. She couldn't go grocery shopping.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She couldn't even leave the house, even though she absolutely hated being in that house with that man. Christina said that between January and February of that year, she just crashed. It even got to the point where she could no longer perform her work duties. So she left her job. So she started seeing a psychiatrist for her mental health. but at that time, Sonny was always with her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He was always at her side during the appointments and wouldn't leave her alone. Christina said that she had a family history of bipolar disorder, so the doctor thought that this explained her mental health issues. So they prescribed her medication to treat depression and anxiety, and she went on her way. But even after she was prescribed medications to get some help,
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Sonny wanted to control that too. According to Christina, he kept her medications locked up in his office and gave it to her each evening. Just like he controlled everything else in Christina's life, he controlled her mental illness and her medications and treatments for it. From there, things continued to escalate.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
On Easter of that year in 2013, Christina recalled one of the more brutal and violent attacks that Sonny delivered to Gunner. Now, around that time, 14-year-old Gunner had this smoke machine that he was really having fun with, but his parents told him not to use it in the house. That Easter Sunday, Gunner did just that, and he turned it on in the house, filling the bathroom with smoke.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
So, Christina was upset and she told Sonny to do something about it. This is something that she says she regrets saying because she wasn't expecting the extreme reaction that she got from Sonny. According to Christina, Sonny stormed upstairs and confronted Gunner about the smoke machine and started beating him.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Gunner got himself free, ran down the stairs and outside through the back door as Sonny chased him. Sonny then pinned Gunner down, put his knee on his back, and put Gunner in a pinch hold. Based on what I was able to find online, it looks like a pinch hold is when you're on top of the other person and you hold them by the neck in a headlock and you pull up.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Sonny Shoemaker was an Air Force pilot for the National Guard. He joined the Connecticut National Guard in 1982, originally serving as a UH-1H helicopter pilot. Then he went on to the University of Connecticut where he earned his bachelor's degree. Then he went on to the University of Connecticut School of Law where he earned his Juris Doctorate to practice law.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
As Sonny was doing this to his 14-year-old son, Gunner was trying to fight him off and was screaming and crying. Then he picked Gunner up, holding him in a bear hug, as Gunner was fighting and kicking the side of the house to free himself.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Once Sonny got Gunner back inside, Gunner tried to run away again, trying to leave out of the window, but once again, Sonny caught up with him, grabbed his foot, and pulled him back inside. Then he pinned him down and beat him again. Christina said that this whole thing was just a nightmare. She regrets not calling the police, but again, she was scared of how Sonny would react.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
By June of that year, she broke down again. She just couldn't take it anymore. She tried outpatient therapy once, but even that, Sunny had control over. So, she checked herself in to an inpatient psychiatric center called Seneca Center in Burlington. There, she spoke with professionals for the first time about the abuse that she suffered from Sunny.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
And from there, she was given resources and was directed to women helping battered women. After receiving some care and some help from those various resources, finally, by July of 2013, Christina decided to leave. She filed for a relief from abuse order with the family courts, as well as for divorce. She told the judge how Sunny physically manhandled her son.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She talked about the Easter incident where he put him in a headlock, carried him inside and beat him. Then there was another incident that same month where Sunny was upset with Gunner once again and as Gunner was lying on the bed, he flipped the bed, throwing Gunner to the floor, and then flipped the living room table in a fit of rage.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
She stated that both of her children have experienced a pattern of threatening violent behavior which has left all of them
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
terrified of him she wrote that elise her daughter was also fearful of him to the point that she was staying with a friend she refused to stay at the home with them christina wrote that if she didn't file the petition that elise was planning to file one on her own the judge did grant the order saying that the only contact she would have with sunny for 30 days was by email and it was only to discuss the child care arrangements for the children
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
but they would still share custody. From there, the couple was separated. Christina stayed in the family home while Sonny moved out and rented an apartment only five minutes down the street from the home. For that month of July, they had a sort of makeshift custody agreement.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Gunner would stay at one house while his sister Elise stayed at the other parent's house and they would just switch back and forth whenever. At the same time, both teenagers would try to spend as much time at friends' houses, staying the night at their houses as often as they could to separate themselves from this whole ordeal. which absolutely makes sense.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Even if there wasn't abuse going on, divorce and parent separating is just so stressful and I can see why any teenager going through this would just want to be away from it all and would prefer spending several nights at friends' houses rather than constantly switching back and forth between parents' houses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
also during this month sunny apparently was texting christina incessantly he would send some messages to sound appeasing and apologetic saying that he would attend counseling couples therapy and that he would even seek psychiatric help for himself
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He promised to continue helping Christina with her own mental health issues, saying that they could work through all of this together and come out stronger. But some of the messages turned more threatening, pushy, and obvious attempts at getting her back to trap her and control her once again.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
By 1989, he then joined the Vermont Air National Guard. He worked as a commercial pilot for a few years as well with Delta. From there, he went on to school a few more times to earn other degrees, such as his master's degree in security studies from the Naval Postgraduate School. Then he served in the Air Force Reserve as a regional emergency preparedness liaison officer.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
He was realizing that his picture perfect life that he had created for himself was coming to a screeching halt. He had been working as an executive director at a medical practice at that time, like I mentioned earlier, and he even lost his job there. Everything was crashing down for Sonny.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
Then, by August of that year, Christina told the court that she was sick of this back-and-forth, makeshift living situation that the children were put into. She requested full custody from the court telling them about the abuse. She told them about the Easter incident again where Sonny beat the hell out of Gunner. But according to Christina, this judge just did not believe her.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
So he ordered a temporary order giving them split custody. Now, I'm not exactly sure how this arrangement worked, but according to other reports, it was decided that both children would choose where they lived. Even though there was split custody, they would be able to decide where they spent most of their time.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: She Tried to Warn Them About her Son, Then he was MURDERED. THE CASE OF GUNNAR SCHUMACHER
As I stated before, both children were afraid of their father, but Elise wanted nothing to do with him. so she chose to stay with her mother and she didn't really see her father. But Sonny had apparently convinced Gunner to spend more time with him.