Christopher Mims
Appearances
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
We run out in two weeks. In a fight with China.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Okay, but and we have a new Secretary of Defense and Pete Hegseth, he recently said, I'm quoting here, we have some really fast moving newer contractors that are willing to work that have already put a lot of money into R&D that want to help us rapidly field these new systems that we're going to need for fights in the future.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Defense spending is, you know, at this point, given the push toward efficiency is zero sum game. That feels like he's talking about you, some of these other drone makers you just mentioned. I mean, do you see this as a good sign for Andrel, number one?
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
And number two, how can we realize the dream that you just articulated in a world where we're trying to shrink budgets, even the defense budget, it sounds like, or they're looking for efficiencies?
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Do you think that means that Doge is going to go into the DoD like they have with other agencies? Oh, I don't think they'll have to.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Oh, so you think they'll let them in and just kind of immediately give them root?
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Lucky sounds like he's on the same page as Elon Musk when it comes to cutting government spending and doing things differently. But how close are they? What's your last text message? Let me see. Let me check. What did I last say? Just ahead, more about that chat. And what Lucky says his Silicon Valley colleagues changing their views on Trump has in common with songstress Patti LaBelle.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Let me ask you a question about the so-called tech right, because mentioning Musk, I feel like y'all are sort of all members or honorary members. It does feel, especially in light of what you just said, like that is maybe a bigger tent in some ways than kind of other political subgroups in Silicon Valley have been in the past. I mean, do you agree with that?
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Anduril's latest deal is taking over a massive contract Microsoft had with the Army to create what's called the Integrated Visual Augmentation System, or IVAS. It's a virtual reality headset designed for the battlefield that could give soldiers direct information from sensors and control of unmanned weaponry. This brings Lucky full circle to how he got his start years earlier with Oculus VR.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Do you think that there's kind of a loose camaraderie there that keeps it together?
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
And that's bold names for this week. Michael LaValle and Jessica Fenton are our sound designers. Jessica also wrote our theme music.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Thanks for listening.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
His relationship with Facebook didn't last long. His support of Trump's first presidential run in 2016 didn't go over well in Silicon Valley. He was ousted after a donation he made to an anti-Hillary Clinton group sparked backlash among his colleagues, though his boss at the time, Mark Zuckerberg, would later tell Congress his departure didn't have anything to do with politics.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Now, Zuckerberg is among the tech moguls hanging around President Trump, and Lucky feels vindicated.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
From The Wall Street Journal, I'm Tim Higgins. And I'm Christopher Mims. This is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold-named companies featured in the pages of The Wall Street Journal...
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
So Microsoft's been, hi, by the way, Palmer. It's been a minute. It's been like five years. How's it going? But yeah, hey. So they've been leading this effort for a while, right? And I think they're going to stay on as a cloud providing partner. That's right. But why you and not them?
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
So you're clearly very bullish on Meta. Are you still bullish on their potential in terms of the Metaverse? I mean, just to put this in context, I was saying something jokey on threads and Andrew Bosworth got mad at me for saying like, oh, like they've pivoted to AI. It seems like they're no longer the Metaverse company.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Right. So they're clearly still invested. I mean, do you kind of... Are you still bullish on their vision? Because now they're really emphasizing AI. It does seem like a shift.
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
Is that what is that going to replace or the F-35, for example, that replaced the Top Gun?
WSJ What’s News
Palmer Luckey's 'I Told You So' Tour: AI Weapons and Vindication
So while we're talking about these autonomous flying drones, essentially, obviously those have been hugely important in Ukraine. I mean, a lot of these still are built in China. The U.S. has had trouble maintaining market share there. The Pentagon's trying to encourage U.S. manufacturing of these really low-cost autonomous munitions in a way.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Right. And sports betting is legal in 39 states now already.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
That said, plenty of teens have said it's easy to circumvent those age verification controls. I mean, it wasn't hard to find op-eds in university newspapers that are talking about teens with problem gambling issues, especially on college campuses. For example, Purdue University has tried to ban everybody on campus from doing this kind of gambling.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
It does kind of feel like your business, though, to get people on as soon as you can. And that does feel like the playbook of some other businesses in the past, I could name. So how important to your growth is getting people as soon as they're able to get on your app?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And so are the consequences of getting millions of Americans hooked on gambling anytime, anywhere. That's next. For a lot of the companies we cover, first quarter is a bit of a lull. But if you're a gambler, there's no better time of the year. And if you're a sports betting company, it's also one of the busiest times of the year.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
The American Gaming Association estimated that Americans wagered about $1.4 billion on the Super Bowl this year. And then there was March Madness, which was twice that, $3.1 billion. There are a lot of different things to bet on these days, and making sure the house always wins is a huge technological problem for online sports betting giant Flutter and its CEO, Peter Jackson.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
a lot of what i'm hearing kind of as the subtext of what you're saying is you are the the the cleanest shirt in the laundry you talked about being you know part of the entertainment business um one of the things about the evolution of the entertainment business, of course, is that, is that, you know, it's so much of it's being delivered right through these.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
I'm holding up my phone for those of you can't see it, which is everyone right now. Um, in some ways it's a more, potent delivery device, right? That's the flip side of it being accessible. And so, you know, there's this kind of growing literature on how we have to be careful because it's with us all the time, right? So psychiatrist Anna Lemke, she has this great book called Dopamine Nation.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
She calls so much of what gets delivered through our phone, a digital drug. And, um, So many of the kind of safeguards that you talk about putting in place, I mean, they do remind me of like responsible drinking campaigns or, you know, the regulations that were put on companies like Juul, for example, about not advertising to young people.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
I mean, is it fair to say that in the same sense that social media is a digital drug, that this is a digital drug, and we should acknowledge that and sort of regulate it accordingly?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Can we bet on election outcomes? When do I get to bet on the things that I can bet on polymarket with you?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Our supervising producer is Catherine Millsap. Our development producer is Aisha Al-Muslim. Scott Salloway and Chris Zinsley are the deputy editors. And Falana Patterson is the Wall Street Journal's head of news audio.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
I'm Christopher Mims.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And I'm Christopher Mims. This is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold-named companies featured in the pages of The Wall Street Journal. Today we ask, how is Flutter capitalizing on the rapid rise of legalized online gambling in the U.S.? Is the sports betting boom sustainable? And is it really all just good, clean fun? Or are states opening the gates to potential harms?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Peter, welcome to the show. Good to have you here. I'm sure our listeners have at least a passing familiarity with your best-known brand in the U.S., FanDuel, and its competitor, of course, DraftKings. But for those of you who aren't already wagering on sports in the U.S., let's start with introducing your company and what you do.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And you know, you're kind of on a tear. Like you've been posting really strong results. And you're also growing. You've got 44% of the take for sportsbook revenue in the US. Goldman Sachs estimates Americans will spend $45 billion a year on sports betting once the market is mature. It's already a $10 billion a year market right now. So let's start with that. Do you really think...
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
that you're on pace to grow 350% in the next, I don't know, 10, 20 years?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
To price that, you've got an internal risk and trading desk. It feels like I picture a pit full of commodities traders in Chicago shouting at each other. Is that how you are able to price so many events every day?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We just heard how Flutter uses tech to create new experiences for its customers. But how much of that tech is also used to keep them clicking, scrolling, and betting? Just like social media keeps us glued to our phones.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Tim, I think this week's episode is one of the most interesting we've done yet. And tons of new listeners are going to tune in for the first time ever. Oh, yeah? Want to bet? Funny you should mention. This week's guest is the CEO of the company behind FanDuel, the biggest U.S. company in sports betting by revenue. Even if you don't care about sports, his industry is transforming the U.S.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Clearly, like you just said, the data matters. Of course, you are a business, right? I mean, according to our own reporting, I think people lose on average seven and a half cents on every dollar they bet with you, right? The house always wins. But how do you keep people coming back when, on average, you have the problem that every gaming business has, which is that...
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So sports betting is definitely better than going to a movie.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So let's talk about young people. So I was a young man once. A long time ago. A long time ago. You know, loved risk. Loved making impulsive bets on things. But we're in a different kind of era than we were even a couple years ago. Lots of states are sort of tightening the screws on social media companies.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And especially in terms of age verification, Utah just passed an age verification by App Store law. Do you think that that might impact you as well, that age verification regime that's going to happen here for all kinds of apps?
WSJ What’s News
Trump Floats Lower China Tariff Ahead of Trade Talks
Their first application is going to be like Vespa style scooters. Turns out that's a huge market. There's a billion of those in the world, but you know, this could go into vacuum cleaners. It could go into your HVAC system. It could be scaled up. It could go into electric vehicles. So that's a big deal. It just means local supply chains for motors eventually all over the world.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Floats Lower China Tariff Ahead of Trade Talks
One challenge though, is that because these motors are typically a bit less powerful than the current ones. They really have to be in the wheels. Turns out that just makes it more efficient. You don't have to transmit the power through a bunch of gears.