Chuck Klosterman

So it's like the earliest version of something that was great, indisputably great, that still exists in every version that comes after.

And my argument with Jim Thorpe.

So it's like a prototype goat.

Well, a little bit.

I mean, because otherwise the argument over greatness.

Oh, it's goat ground zero.

I guess that way I would be.

Yes.

I could have called that, I guess.

I just I think that that is the way greatness needs to be considered.

It has to be like we always want to think of.

the future, but greatness comes from the past.

It's sort of like the building blocks of these things.

I use the Beatles as the example in this book, not, you know, unsurprisingly.

Sort of like, what makes the Beatles so great is that not only what they did, but sort of what they did is still completely present in all the pop music that came after.

Now, granted, sports are different.

Sports have a greater objective element than a subjective element, and people talk about this.

To me, it really came down to Jim Thorpe

or Jim Brown.

Because I think the argument could be made that the sport Jim Thorpe was playing had no relationship to the sport we have now.