Ciarán

And we're going to play it now.

But I'd just like to remind any listener that this is very, very disturbing.

And I would caution people.

about listening to it.

However, the reason why we're playing it is because I feel that it is very revealing of McCulloch.

And I do think also that it goes some way to explain the 31 year minimum tariff.

And also...

It is very hard to understand how the jury would have reacted to that and how a normal person would have reacted in those extremely difficult circumstances.

And yet, for me listening to that, and yes, I do have the benefit of hindsight, it sounds like overreacting.

I get the sensation where people would be shocked

beyond shocked, but would be focused not on their own hysterics, but on the person who's been murdered, or who you suspect has been murdered.

My reaction listening to that, as I hope a reasonable person, was that I think it would have made me more suspicious having heard that.

Well, Stephen McCullough was taken back to MacGyverie

this morning, where he will spend at least, at the very least, the next 31 years.

And there's no guarantee he'll be getting out at the end of that.

Curtis Reid, thank you very much.

The sound design in this podcast was by Niall Dorn.

The clips you heard were from the PSNI.

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