Cillian Woods

essentially got itself hooked on subsidies, whether that's help to buy, whether that's first home.

And all these are schemes that they pretty much pitched and argued for at Creecona.

Now the apartment back cut.

All of these are very permanent changes to how building is funded and how it's taxed.

that are very hard to unwind.

So all these could be like, there's a, beyond even Cree Connacht, there's a lot of bailouts going there for developers to keep their businesses in Ireland going.

Admittedly, at the other end, they're providing a service, they're providing something that's physical and tangible here.

The people are able to buy a home or rent a home.

But it's a very worrying scenario for the sector to be in that it, how does it get to a stage where it would be happy for VAT on the apartment building to go up or apartment, new build apartment buildings to go up?

How would it wean itself off a scenario?

If Cairn and Glenveig need this money to build apartments, what would have to happen in the sector?

That's the worry I would have for these sort of schemes.

Well, these would have been sites that they would have probably pieced together as part when they were PLCs.

And from years and years ago, when they were forming as PLCs, they're still carrying a lot of the land that they would have made when they, I think they IPO'd in both 2016, 2017.

It's not a long time ago now, in fairness, 10 years.

Yeah, 10 years.

10 years of my life is a long time, Ciarán.

Look, I think it's not a good sign for those companies that they need to have these state subsidies.

And it's in a way as well, it's how the current government, it's another example of how they have outflanked the opposition and how they look to fund housing and they're stepping in to do more state schemes, more state spending.

This is all a form of state housing.