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Claire Ainsworth

Appearances

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

120.442

And this is why gases are so cool, because they kind of let us eavesdrop on the conversations that are going on within this ecosystem and how that relates to our health.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

160.133

You know, most of the gut is this big black box. What we really would like to do is look at what's going on in real time and how it responds to changes in diet.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

203.075

It's a twisting landscape through which our intestinal gases move. Some of the gas that comes in is you swallow it. Your mom probably told you off for eating too fast. You swallow gases like oxygen and nitrogen. Most of that comes from swallowed air.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

235.522

You know, you feed yourself, but you also feed your gut bacteria, your gut microbes, with your diet. And it's this fermentation, then producing these gases...

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

258.596

Yeah, so these are the things like hydrogen sulfide or methane. They are gases. that can act as signals. They tell our cells to do things. They can affect how our immune cells respond. They can affect the blood vessels in the gut. They can affect the function of the gut and affect other parts of our bodies as well. They could promote gut and liver health, for example, that sort of thing.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

282.332

So they're not just waste effluent. You're not thinking like a factory chimney set that belches out smoke. They have a function.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

296.736

Well, I guess it's much more complicated than what goes in at the top. In many ways, we kind of fart when we breathe as well because I've only just met you and I'm insulting you. I do apologize. The problem, of course, with measuring breath is it doesn't tell you where the gas is being produced. Which builds the gut, and that's key, really.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

319.983

You know, when you say come out at the other end, it's composed of gases, you know, like carbon dioxide, depending on what else you've been eating, hydrogen, methane, perhaps that sort of thing, but also a whole load of other stuff, these tiny trace amounts of things like hydrogen sulfide, these volatile organic compounds I mentioned that probably lend a certain bouquet to the whole proceedings.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

349.399

The smell, should we put it. Right. So yeah, so what actually comes out, farts are actually really complex. They're very dynamic. And they, like I said, they give us a rather, you know, slightly smelly window into what's been going on on our insides, at least towards the end of our gut. Right.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

390.937

Okay, so the Spanish team was led by Santiago Marco at the Institute of Bioengineering of Catalonia and Antonio Pardo at the University of Barcelona. Okay. And one of the ways they've been trying is not to put too fine a point of it, a catheter up the rectum. Ah, okay. So a tube up the butt to gather the fart, to gather the gas.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

415.609

One of the problems with this is, A, it's a little bit invasive, but also you can contaminate the sample with atmospheric air. It can leak in. And also there's, how do you measure it? How do you measure it accurately? How do you get, you know, reproducible findings from it? So this was the challenge. this team took on.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

431.912

So they designed a fart-catching device, which is a tube up the rectum with a special plug in it to keep the atmospheric gas out and a special bag for collecting gas. And then they got five volunteers, set them up and said, don't move. Stay very still for the next four hours and we'll collect some gas.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

459.495

If you've got a tube up there, I don't know how much voluntary control you have over it, to be honest.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

470.225

They then took them over to the scientists who used a technique called gas chromatography on the farts. And this is a very sensitive, very precise way of measuring what molecules are in a sample, right? What did they find? Well, they found, actually, they could detect with good accuracy the five main gases in farts, so oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

498.954

methane and they gave the subjects a meal that either didn't make them fart much or was predicted to make them fart a lot and then did the experiment again and then they were able to show in their gas chromatography measurements they could tell the difference between the samples.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

52.938

There are some scientists who are trying to collect them, physically collect farts.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

535.492

But the idea was that actually you can use this to get a really nice, accurate, reproducible way of detecting what's those gases in farts.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

571.928

How does that all work? Yeah, so this is the Atmo capsule, and it builds on work from a number of scientific groups around the world. And obviously, we can't swallow a gas chromatograph, but we can send something else in that doesn't have that same sort of analytical power, but still, you know, as a trade-off, tells us stuff that we couldn't find out any other way.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

599.557

Yeah, a little bit like that. So they've got this little capsule and it's about half the size of a sort of AA battery and you swallow it. It's like a big pill. And it makes its way through your gut over a couple of days and it can detect hydrogen, carbon dioxide and it can also work out through various means if there's a low oxygen in the area.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

621.869

And it's got a temperature sensor so it knows when it's come out the other end. You know, Atmo has left the building. And the great thing about it is it transmits its results telemetrically to a receiver outside the body. You just send the data off for analysis. One of the useful things it can tell you is whether fermentation is taking place at a particular point in the gut.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

644.043

So the cool thing is you know where it is and you know, for example, if there's hydrogen there. If there's hydrogen there, there's got to be fermentation.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

654.901

Yeah. Wow. One of the theories in IBS is that it's the location of fermentation that might be an issue. And they showed, for example, that by changing diet and measuring it with these capsules, they were able to show that changing the diet shifted the location of fermentation in the colon.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

66.312

I thought, what on earth is motivating these people to go to such lengths and such care to collect farts? How did they get funding for that? Why would you do that? And it took me on this really fascinating journey into just how important and fascinating farts really are.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

705.089

I almost say it gives me a whole new appreciation of farts. It's a classic Cinderella story, isn't it? It's rags to riches. We thought they were rubbish. We tried to get rid of them or hide them. But you can take pride in your farts. They are a miracle of biology. But maybe keep that miracle to yourself in the bathroom for now. Farts are hilarious, right?

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

730.42

I mean, I had a lot of fun reporting this story, but there's a very serious side to it because these gases can help us understand some diseases that cause a huge amount of suffering worldwide. If you're affected by any of these issues, what I suggest is to seek out good quality information. Don't try and treat yourself with a diet because there's so much rubbish.

Short Wave

Farts To The Rescue

751.966

You know, try this fad diet or buy that overpriced supplement to fix your problem. What you want is good evidence-led treatment from a physician. It's very early days, but, you know, people are working on it.