Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing

Cliff Sosin

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
646 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

Yeah. Logistics. The cost of running a logistics system, you know, you can think about moving these trucks as like a fixed cost. And if you want to provide complete connectivity and move cars quickly, it turns out conversion speeds matter a lot. And by the way, when you think about the inventory space, inventory nearer to customers increases conversion because you can get to them faster.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

Yeah. Logistics. The cost of running a logistics system, you know, you can think about moving these trucks as like a fixed cost. And if you want to provide complete connectivity and move cars quickly, it turns out conversion speeds matter a lot. And by the way, when you think about the inventory space, inventory nearer to customers increases conversion because you can get to them faster.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

Then you can think about these IRCs. These are very large facilities. It turns out that run well, you can recondition cars for a lot less money and time because cars are depreciating assets if you have like a big facility. So like if I have a traditional dealership, the car comes in and like one guy or gal does all the repairs.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

Then you can think about these IRCs. These are very large facilities. It turns out that run well, you can recondition cars for a lot less money and time because cars are depreciating assets if you have like a big facility. So like if I have a traditional dealership, the car comes in and like one guy or gal does all the repairs.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

But the problem is that person isn't necessarily the right level of, like they're overqualified for a lot of the things they're going to do on the car. And they have to change tasks. And that slows you down. If you're at Carvana, you can have people who are very entry level to do the cleaning and the oil changes and the tire changes.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

But the problem is that person isn't necessarily the right level of, like they're overqualified for a lot of the things they're going to do on the car. And they have to change tasks. And that slows you down. If you're at Carvana, you can have people who are very entry level to do the cleaning and the oil changes and the tire changes.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

And you can have advanced mechanics do just like a very narrow subset of stuff. And you can have people at like specialized stations where like this is what they're doing. And so they can be more efficient. Now to do that, though, you have to efficiently route the cars through the system and all the rest. Also, the dealership is in an expensive place, and so you have less overhead.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

And you can have advanced mechanics do just like a very narrow subset of stuff. And you can have people at like specialized stations where like this is what they're doing. And so they can be more efficient. Now to do that, though, you have to efficiently route the cars through the system and all the rest. Also, the dealership is in an expensive place, and so you have less overhead.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

So these are just examples of places, but there's economies of scale to doing that, as well as enormous process power, like economies of scale. Underwriting loans is obviously an endeavor where you learn The way to do this over time, you connect all these data sources, you learn how to predict defaults, you then get data over years that cycles back into it.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

So these are just examples of places, but there's economies of scale to doing that, as well as enormous process power, like economies of scale. Underwriting loans is obviously an endeavor where you learn The way to do this over time, you connect all these data sources, you learn how to predict defaults, you then get data over years that cycles back into it.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

Title and registration, like there's software that's built to run all this. So this is like there's enormous economies of scale and skill in terms of like being able to do all these things. And then, you know, I... would be really remiss if I didn't mention trust. Consumers, when they buy a car, it's an active, a sight unseen in the air, it's active trust. We can talk about how Carvana grows.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

Title and registration, like there's software that's built to run all this. So this is like there's enormous economies of scale and skill in terms of like being able to do all these things. And then, you know, I... would be really remiss if I didn't mention trust. Consumers, when they buy a car, it's an active, a sight unseen in the air, it's active trust. We can talk about how Carvana grows.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

And it was one of the things that kind of went wrong in 2022, but like getting Carvana is able to get people to buy cars because there's been an enormous amount of word of mouth built up over many years of delivering great experiences. And You know, you can't buy that. You have to build it up over time. That's trust on the buying side. There's also trust on the selling side, although less.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

And it was one of the things that kind of went wrong in 2022, but like getting Carvana is able to get people to buy cars because there's been an enormous amount of word of mouth built up over many years of delivering great experiences. And You know, you can't buy that. You have to build it up over time. That's trust on the buying side. There's also trust on the selling side, although less.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

There's also trust in the financing business, right? You make these loans, then you sell them. And the people who buy these loans have to trust that you're making these loans to spec and that the loans are going to perform kind of as advertised. You're a great originator, yeah. Subject to economic conditions. The other thing about this business is if you think about a car transaction, it's a...

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

There's also trust in the financing business, right? You make these loans, then you sell them. And the people who buy these loans have to trust that you're making these loans to spec and that the loans are going to perform kind of as advertised. You're a great originator, yeah. Subject to economic conditions. The other thing about this business is if you think about a car transaction, it's a...

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

It's a whole series of things that have to go right. And if you get any one of them wrong, you're going to lose money on the transaction and your customers are miserable. And this is economies of scope, right? This is the idea that you have to put this whole portfolio of things together and you have to get them all right, and you have to get them all right every time.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

It's a whole series of things that have to go right. And if you get any one of them wrong, you're going to lose money on the transaction and your customers are miserable. And this is economies of scope, right? This is the idea that you have to put this whole portfolio of things together and you have to get them all right, and you have to get them all right every time.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

And this is this combination of things. And if anything I've said sounds easy, it's because I haven't described it right. It's so hard. That's why everyone who's tried to build this business besides Carvana has failed, and that's why it's taken Carvana over 10 years and $10 billion to get where it is. Outside the US, there were other people trying to copy Carvana in other markets.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]

And this is this combination of things. And if anything I've said sounds easy, it's because I haven't described it right. It's so hard. That's why everyone who's tried to build this business besides Carvana has failed, and that's why it's taken Carvana over 10 years and $10 billion to get where it is. Outside the US, there were other people trying to copy Carvana in other markets.