Coco Kahn

David, what do you make of that? Do you agree with that assessment? And just generally, what are your thoughts on the state of prisons as they are now?

David, what do you make of that? Do you agree with that assessment? And just generally, what are your thoughts on the state of prisons as they are now?

One of the things you mentioned earlier, you talked about like, you know, in America, they give these really long sentences, you know, longer than a lifetime. Where our sentences are going up, getting longer. I think there's a public perception that that must put people off committing crimes.

One of the things you mentioned earlier, you talked about like, you know, in America, they give these really long sentences, you know, longer than a lifetime. Where our sentences are going up, getting longer. I think there's a public perception that that must put people off committing crimes.

Because I think it's also worth saying, and forgive me if this is a bit obvious, but when you hear the prisons are full, you might think there's more crime, but there isn't.

Because I think it's also worth saying, and forgive me if this is a bit obvious, but when you hear the prisons are full, you might think there's more crime, but there isn't.

There's less crime. I've got a note here that a report for the Howard League for Penal Reform pointed out that the prison population in 1991 was about 40,000. That's less than half of today's number. So what's going on? There's less crime, but more prison. I mean...

There's less crime. I've got a note here that a report for the Howard League for Penal Reform pointed out that the prison population in 1991 was about 40,000. That's less than half of today's number. So what's going on? There's less crime, but more prison. I mean...

But that's what Timpson... Yeah, exactly.

But that's what Timpson... Yeah, exactly.

No, I'm just curious, you know, about... So, you know, the prison's minister, James Timpson, there was a lot of hope around his appointment because his company did employ ex-offenders and was essentially providing a model for a better way to rehabilitate prisoners. I did have some questions about it, though.

No, I'm just curious, you know, about... So, you know, the prison's minister, James Timpson, there was a lot of hope around his appointment because his company did employ ex-offenders and was essentially providing a model for a better way to rehabilitate prisoners. I did have some questions about it, though.

I've recently discovered that, like, as part of the scheme, he wouldn't take anyone under 25. And I just wanted to, A, get your thoughts on that.

I've recently discovered that, like, as part of the scheme, he wouldn't take anyone under 25. And I just wanted to, A, get your thoughts on that.

I didn't even realise I didn't even realise how much I agreed with that honestly every time my 21 year old mates yes I have them are like oh I'm going on some dates I'm like oh I'm dating some children that must be hard for you

I didn't even realise I didn't even realise how much I agreed with that honestly every time my 21 year old mates yes I have them are like oh I'm going on some dates I'm like oh I'm dating some children that must be hard for you

A lot more, yeah. I'll be honest, when I heard that the Timpson model, which I thought was brilliant, excluded men under 25, I just thought, well, what will happen to them? What will we do with them? Have you got any solutions for younger men?

A lot more, yeah. I'll be honest, when I heard that the Timpson model, which I thought was brilliant, excluded men under 25, I just thought, well, what will happen to them? What will we do with them? Have you got any solutions for younger men?

But would that pass the Daily Mail test? Because I recall reading in the Daily Mail test some outrage about women prisoners who would be released for a day to go and work in McDonald's. Fair enough, they want to earn some money, they want to get some skills, get some job experience for when they come out. The Daily Mail seemed to be livid about this.

But would that pass the Daily Mail test? Because I recall reading in the Daily Mail test some outrage about women prisoners who would be released for a day to go and work in McDonald's. Fair enough, they want to earn some money, they want to get some skills, get some job experience for when they come out. The Daily Mail seemed to be livid about this.