Colleen Pelly

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it.

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it.

Yeah, great question. So this is a super misconception too. So the way agencies work, well, you were in one, so, but for everyone else.

Yeah, great question. So this is a super misconception too. So the way agencies work, well, you were in one, so, but for everyone else.

So clients hire us. So like Lou Lemon would hire me to hire for their people. So the candidates aren't paying anything. So like the candidates were like, we're given a role and then we're like, great, we need to find candidates. But you can still reach out because you're still building my pipeline and helping.

So clients hire us. So like Lou Lemon would hire me to hire for their people. So the candidates aren't paying anything. So like the candidates were like, we're given a role and then we're like, great, we need to find candidates. But you can still reach out because you're still building my pipeline and helping.

LinkedIn's definitely a big one. There's like alumni job boards, like, you know, or like if you're in design, you're looking on Behance, like you're kind of picking specific job boards for the type of industry you're hiring in. But honestly, LinkedIn is a ton of it. And then just like who you've The secret sauce to recruitment is just keeping in touch with people. So like really just networks.

LinkedIn's definitely a big one. There's like alumni job boards, like, you know, or like if you're in design, you're looking on Behance, like you're kind of picking specific job boards for the type of industry you're hiring in. But honestly, LinkedIn is a ton of it. And then just like who you've The secret sauce to recruitment is just keeping in touch with people. So like really just networks.

Like I think the strongest recruiters just have like years and years of these strong networks. And so a lot of the time we'll get a new role. I don't know. We get accountants a lot. So like we need another accountant. It's like, oh, great. I can think of 15 people to reach out to before I even have to go on LinkedIn. But if you're thinking about platforms, I'd say LinkedIn's are like our most used.

Like I think the strongest recruiters just have like years and years of these strong networks. And so a lot of the time we'll get a new role. I don't know. We get accountants a lot. So like we need another accountant. It's like, oh, great. I can think of 15 people to reach out to before I even have to go on LinkedIn. But if you're thinking about platforms, I'd say LinkedIn's are like our most used.

Yeah. Or that you've placed somewhere else. Or we've placed, yeah, because you keep in contact with someone and then in six years they might want a new job, whatever that looks like, or two more recently. But we also have sort of open forums. Like a lot of people will reach out, as you said, and be like, I need help. It's like, great, here's a link. Can you fill this out? And it has like,

Yeah. Or that you've placed somewhere else. Or we've placed, yeah, because you keep in contact with someone and then in six years they might want a new job, whatever that looks like, or two more recently. But we also have sort of open forums. Like a lot of people will reach out, as you said, and be like, I need help. It's like, great, here's a link. Can you fill this out? And it has like,

what's your name? What's your contact information? What type of job are you looking for? Do you want to be remote? Where do you live? What's your compensation expectation? Can you list some metrics on like why you've been successful, et cetera. And then we're also like, do you want to be anonymous, whatever it looks like. And then I've sort of have a pipeline from that.

what's your name? What's your contact information? What type of job are you looking for? Do you want to be remote? Where do you live? What's your compensation expectation? Can you list some metrics on like why you've been successful, et cetera. And then we're also like, do you want to be anonymous, whatever it looks like. And then I've sort of have a pipeline from that.

And when I have a new role, I can run it through that and see like who matches. So it's, it's really selfishly, it really builds my pipeline quickly so I can hire people faster for companies. But also we get to, we get to help people too, which is nice.

And when I have a new role, I can run it through that and see like who matches. So it's, it's really selfishly, it really builds my pipeline quickly so I can hire people faster for companies. But also we get to, we get to help people too, which is nice.

Do you want to know why I think that is part of it?

Do you want to know why I think that is part of it?

I think when you are reasonably happy, people, if they're willing to take a call with me, they're not perfectly happy in their role.

I think when you are reasonably happy, people, if they're willing to take a call with me, they're not perfectly happy in their role.

Or sometimes they're just networking.

Or sometimes they're just networking.

Yes, that's part of it. But there is something like if you don't need it, you don't care, I guess, in the same way. And you're so much more confident in the way you communicate and you interview better. Totally. So exactly. So I really believe that for sure.

Yes, that's part of it. But there is something like if you don't need it, you don't care, I guess, in the same way. And you're so much more confident in the way you communicate and you interview better. Totally. So exactly. So I really believe that for sure.

But you can hear it sometimes. Like, obviously, there's so many layoffs in the world and all these things. But, like, if people get to the point where they're like, I don't even care. I'll take a PECA. And it's like, just know your worth and have confidence and you'll come across.

But you can hear it sometimes. Like, obviously, there's so many layoffs in the world and all these things. But, like, if people get to the point where they're like, I don't even care. I'll take a PECA. And it's like, just know your worth and have confidence and you'll come across.

And the thing is, when you're super niche, like especially on the tech side, they're reached out to all the time. Totally. So even on LinkedIn, you'll see it'll literally be like, stop emailing me. Like it's like people. Wow. And so I think in general, recruiters kind of, they have a bad feeling about us a lot of the time.

And the thing is, when you're super niche, like especially on the tech side, they're reached out to all the time. Totally. So even on LinkedIn, you'll see it'll literally be like, stop emailing me. Like it's like people. Wow. And so I think in general, recruiters kind of, they have a bad feeling about us a lot of the time.

But I was in tech recruiting for a while and you just keep in touch with people. And for me, I find the best way to like,

But I was in tech recruiting for a while and you just keep in touch with people. And for me, I find the best way to like,

present an opportunity to someone is just be super transparent so those people and I'm super quick I'm like here's the company here's the job posting here's the pay it's remote if this has any interest to you let me know or refer me otherwise just like tell me to go away right and most people will be like not right now thanks thanks Colleen like no or like here's a friend who's looking and you can just keep it short and sweet but like so many recruiters reach out with very vague information like hey I have this really exciting opportunity it's like just tell me the company and tell me the pay and if I'm interested I'll let you know

present an opportunity to someone is just be super transparent so those people and I'm super quick I'm like here's the company here's the job posting here's the pay it's remote if this has any interest to you let me know or refer me otherwise just like tell me to go away right and most people will be like not right now thanks thanks Colleen like no or like here's a friend who's looking and you can just keep it short and sweet but like so many recruiters reach out with very vague information like hey I have this really exciting opportunity it's like just tell me the company and tell me the pay and if I'm interested I'll let you know

That's exactly. I've never understood recruiters who are direct. It makes no sense to me.

That's exactly. I've never understood recruiters who are direct. It makes no sense to me.

Yeah. So I think there's, I mean, just we've been talking about tech. Tech pays really well at all levels.

Yeah. So I think there's, I mean, just we've been talking about tech. Tech pays really well at all levels.

Yeah. I think just starting from the world I know really well is I think recruiting is such an interesting space because you don't need a formal education. If you have one, that's great, but you don't need it, right? Like, recruiting. There's no designation.

Yeah. I think just starting from the world I know really well is I think recruiting is such an interesting space because you don't need a formal education. If you have one, that's great, but you don't need it, right? Like, recruiting. There's no designation.

There's no designation you need. And, you know, I have people in my life who like have all these letters after their name and they went to school for 15 years. And it's like, I make significantly more. Like, I mean that in a, it's coming across as not humble, but also. Don't be humble on this show. I want you to tell us the truth. Yeah.

There's no designation you need. And, you know, I have people in my life who like have all these letters after their name and they went to school for 15 years. And it's like, I make significantly more. Like, I mean that in a, it's coming across as not humble, but also. Don't be humble on this show. I want you to tell us the truth. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that's right.

So it's like, I, if, especially in, um, agency recruitment, because a lot of it's commission based. So if you're confident and you're great at what you do and it's uncapped commission, you're just going to keep earning. But the other side, like this is like a less conventional path, but I feel like so many trades roles are ignored.

So it's like, I, if, especially in, um, agency recruitment, because a lot of it's commission based. So if you're confident and you're great at what you do and it's uncapped commission, you're just going to keep earning. But the other side, like this is like a less conventional path, but I feel like so many trades roles are ignored.

Like being an electrician or a plumber or those pieces, they're making a significant amount of money and you're able to get educated or the requirements you need in a much faster timeframe. And so I think that's something that's kind of ignored and also needed. So we work with influencers all the time. We hire for them all the time. At some point, that's not going to be a job anymore.

Like being an electrician or a plumber or those pieces, they're making a significant amount of money and you're able to get educated or the requirements you need in a much faster timeframe. And so I think that's something that's kind of ignored and also needed. So we work with influencers all the time. We hire for them all the time. At some point, that's not going to be a job anymore.

And you know, what's always going to be needed is those like essential. So like what's essential that's going to be needed all the time?

And you know, what's always going to be needed is those like essential. So like what's essential that's going to be needed all the time?

Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Yeah. Some people just do executive search. Like we do everything from entry level through executive.

Yeah. Some people just do executive search. Like we do everything from entry level through executive.

Remembering is so key. I always say this to people. Everyone's like, how are you good at your job? What does it mean to be successful in recruitment? It's really just keeping in touch with people and remembering details.

Remembering is so key. I always say this to people. Everyone's like, how are you good at your job? What does it mean to be successful in recruitment? It's really just keeping in touch with people and remembering details.

100%.

100%.

So as a company, like from a business owner, we charge 20% of the base salary and then your recruiters will get anywhere from like 10 to 15%. Yeah.

So as a company, like from a business owner, we charge 20% of the base salary and then your recruiters will get anywhere from like 10 to 15%. Yeah.

Yeah, especially in the emergency space as well, because at that time you're like, I'll pay whatever to fix this, please.

Yeah, especially in the emergency space as well, because at that time you're like, I'll pay whatever to fix this, please.

Right. And so I think that's probably just an underrated. I mean, when you talk about recruiters, I feel like no one wakes up and is like, I'm going to be a recruiter when I grow up. But I think you're right. There's sort of like, my parents want me to be a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher or whatever it is. And I think there's some underrated pieces that are missing.

Right. And so I think that's probably just an underrated. I mean, when you talk about recruiters, I feel like no one wakes up and is like, I'm going to be a recruiter when I grow up. But I think you're right. There's sort of like, my parents want me to be a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher or whatever it is. And I think there's some underrated pieces that are missing.

Even though my kids are younger, like they're not in school yet, and I just even think about the daycare people. Yeah. I'll leave, I'll drop my kids off sometimes and everyone's crying and I'm like, you're not paid enough. They're not paid enough. I don't know how. I go crazy with two of them.

Even though my kids are younger, like they're not in school yet, and I just even think about the daycare people. Yeah. I'll leave, I'll drop my kids off sometimes and everyone's crying and I'm like, you're not paid enough. They're not paid enough. I don't know how. I go crazy with two of them.

Yeah. And I think like even maybe less, we did some landscape hiring for a while. And so like maybe not like direct like laborers, but like that can grow into sort of like a more niche trade. But I just think in general, people overlook those essential pieces for things that are needed. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah. And I think like even maybe less, we did some landscape hiring for a while. And so like maybe not like direct like laborers, but like that can grow into sort of like a more niche trade. But I just think in general, people overlook those essential pieces for things that are needed. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

And I think there are key industries, like if you're thinking more on the corporate side, like anything with a commission, so like recruitment's the same way because it's sales, but anything in sales where you have the ability, if you're great at what you do, you're going to do well. Not everyone's going to do well in these industries because-

And I think there are key industries, like if you're thinking more on the corporate side, like anything with a commission, so like recruitment's the same way because it's sales, but anything in sales where you have the ability, if you're great at what you do, you're going to do well. Not everyone's going to do well in these industries because-

Oh, great question. Yeah. And it feels so simple, but I think when you think about self-awareness or like a high emotional intelligence or a high ability to be self-aware for me feels like one of the most important parts.

Oh, great question. Yeah. And it feels so simple, but I think when you think about self-awareness or like a high emotional intelligence or a high ability to be self-aware for me feels like one of the most important parts.

I think about this all the time. Like when I first started my company and everyone's like, oh my gosh, you're doing it. And you're like, do you know how hard this is? I'm crying in the shower and trying to figure out what to do every day.

I think about this all the time. Like when I first started my company and everyone's like, oh my gosh, you're doing it. And you're like, do you know how hard this is? I'm crying in the shower and trying to figure out what to do every day.

And you find your groove, but it's like you go from being... So if I'm an expert in recruitment and then I start a company, all of a sudden I have to be an expert in finance and tech and marketing. And you're not. And you're learning and you're making so many mistakes, but...

And you find your groove, but it's like you go from being... So if I'm an expert in recruitment and then I start a company, all of a sudden I have to be an expert in finance and tech and marketing. And you're not. And you're learning and you're making so many mistakes, but...

If you're – it's not for everyone, but if you have the – like an entrepreneurial spirit or whatever you want to call it, I think really the word is resilience. If you can be a resilient person, you can make it happen. But I don't remember the stat, but it's something like wildly high that the number of people who try to start a business and fail. They do. Yeah.

If you're – it's not for everyone, but if you have the – like an entrepreneurial spirit or whatever you want to call it, I think really the word is resilience. If you can be a resilient person, you can make it happen. But I don't remember the stat, but it's something like wildly high that the number of people who try to start a business and fail. They do. Yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

You're not going to get anywhere if you don't fail.

You're not going to get anywhere if you don't fail.

And I think a lot of it is we talk about a lot of interviews sometimes talk about like what went wrong or like what's an error you made or a mistake you made and being able to be self-aware and hold yourself accountable to what went wrong. And also talk about what you learn and how do we move forward is like that's a beautiful skill to have.

And I think a lot of it is we talk about a lot of interviews sometimes talk about like what went wrong or like what's an error you made or a mistake you made and being able to be self-aware and hold yourself accountable to what went wrong. And also talk about what you learn and how do we move forward is like that's a beautiful skill to have.

And having something work out. I had somebody, like an old mentor, tell me once to look at... to look at like a setback or a failure as feedback.

And having something work out. I had somebody, like an old mentor, tell me once to look at... to look at like a setback or a failure as feedback.

And I, it resonated with me at the time. And it's like, if you can find a way to, okay, this didn't go well, but what can I learn from it? Because I'm going to do it again.

And I, it resonated with me at the time. And it's like, if you can find a way to, okay, this didn't go well, but what can I learn from it? Because I'm going to do it again.

truly like, there's so many that go around, but one that I, yeah, we should. But the one I, that always has resonated with me too, which I hate to, it makes you so uncomfortable, but you're not going to grow if you're not uncomfortable. So like growth is going to, whatever that is, growth happens out of your comfort zone or whatever it is.

truly like, there's so many that go around, but one that I, yeah, we should. But the one I, that always has resonated with me too, which I hate to, it makes you so uncomfortable, but you're not going to grow if you're not uncomfortable. So like growth is going to, whatever that is, growth happens out of your comfort zone or whatever it is.

And just being able to articulate what you've done well and metrics and data. So I think there's like a self-awareness piece, what I would say is a really important and really useful part to have.

And just being able to articulate what you've done well and metrics and data. So I think there's like a self-awareness piece, what I would say is a really important and really useful part to have.

Well, I think anyone who starts a small business... And it was all about rejection.

Well, I think anyone who starts a small business... And it was all about rejection.

It's a lot of no in your face.

It's a lot of no in your face.

Yeah. Like there are I don't know. I can't remember. But you like you could throw a stone and hit like 20 different agencies just within my like area where I live. And I think it's so it's consistently something is somebody told me like a competitor who's a friend of mine told me when I first started my business, there's more than enough work for all of us. You just have to find your lane.

Yeah. Like there are I don't know. I can't remember. But you like you could throw a stone and hit like 20 different agencies just within my like area where I live. And I think it's so it's consistently something is somebody told me like a competitor who's a friend of mine told me when I first started my business, there's more than enough work for all of us. You just have to find your lane.

And it's so true. Like, you know, I think even a few years ago, I would kind of work with anyone because I wanted a client, right? And I was like, sure. And then, you know, as I've kind of gained more success, I'm able to be like, I don't actually know that we're right for each other. I don't really like the way you treat your people in a kind way.

And it's so true. Like, you know, I think even a few years ago, I would kind of work with anyone because I wanted a client, right? And I was like, sure. And then, you know, as I've kind of gained more success, I'm able to be like, I don't actually know that we're right for each other. I don't really like the way you treat your people in a kind way.

So it's like, I'm going to like find my groove and my people and like, find my space in it and sort of like, how can we differentiate? Like if we're not trying to be like everyone else, we don't want to work with everyone. We want to like be, I don't know, like curate kind of the type of clients we want to work with. So that's been cool too.

So it's like, I'm going to like find my groove and my people and like, find my space in it and sort of like, how can we differentiate? Like if we're not trying to be like everyone else, we don't want to work with everyone. We want to like be, I don't know, like curate kind of the type of clients we want to work with. So that's been cool too.

Yes. So just on like a geographical location, like the remote – If I'm given a role and you see it's remote first, it's always going to be easier. You can cast a wider net. Like, you know, you can even like if they're in a different time zone, even you can shift hours. But like being remote allows for the largest candidate pool. A lot of companies have kind of fallen back into a hybrid model.

Yes. So just on like a geographical location, like the remote – If I'm given a role and you see it's remote first, it's always going to be easier. You can cast a wider net. Like, you know, you can even like if they're in a different time zone, even you can shift hours. But like being remote allows for the largest candidate pool. A lot of companies have kind of fallen back into a hybrid model.

So like coming into the office a couple of days. But when we have companies like we have a few clients and they're lovely, but it's sort of like. like demanding five days a week in office, nobody wants that anymore. And so I think, yes, there's some roles like nurses, like there's some roles you have to be in person, that kind of thing.

So like coming into the office a couple of days. But when we have companies like we have a few clients and they're lovely, but it's sort of like. like demanding five days a week in office, nobody wants that anymore. And so I think, yes, there's some roles like nurses, like there's some roles you have to be in person, that kind of thing.

But I do feel like I'm going to use the word flexibility instead of remote. Like I think the most attractive thing companies can offer is flexibility. And what I mean by that is not just where you work, but also... time, like even my own team, I know recruitment's a little bit like you just need your computer and a phone, but it's sort of like, I don't really care when you work or where you work.

But I do feel like I'm going to use the word flexibility instead of remote. Like I think the most attractive thing companies can offer is flexibility. And what I mean by that is not just where you work, but also... time, like even my own team, I know recruitment's a little bit like you just need your computer and a phone, but it's sort of like, I don't really care when you work or where you work.

I'm going to know if you're doing your job by the number of people you hire or you don't. And my employees, I feel one of the things they, you know, we do surveys a lot. Like, what do you like about being here? Like what's working and what's not working.

I'm going to know if you're doing your job by the number of people you hire or you don't. And my employees, I feel one of the things they, you know, we do surveys a lot. Like, what do you like about being here? Like what's working and what's not working.

And I think it's like, if you give your team flexibility, they're going to feel trusted and people who feel trusted want to do well for you because they want to be around you. So I think flexibility in terms of like, yeah, the hours you work or like what you need.

And I think it's like, if you give your team flexibility, they're going to feel trusted and people who feel trusted want to do well for you because they want to be around you. So I think flexibility in terms of like, yeah, the hours you work or like what you need.

Like maybe I want to pick my kids up every day at three, but then I'm going to do a little work later in the evening because that works for me. Or I'm not going to work at all on Wednesday because I want to go do something, but I'll work a little bit on Sunday. So I think there's like, trust your team to get the job done and they will, as opposed to sort of setting rigid regulations.

Like maybe I want to pick my kids up every day at three, but then I'm going to do a little work later in the evening because that works for me. Or I'm not going to work at all on Wednesday because I want to go do something, but I'll work a little bit on Sunday. So I think there's like, trust your team to get the job done and they will, as opposed to sort of setting rigid regulations.

The companies that set those strict rules, I find like nobody's going to stay.

The companies that set those strict rules, I find like nobody's going to stay.

I have found no success, like key indicators that are any different if someone's in an office versus not. Like, I think there are some industries where it's very useful to be at a table. Like, you know, if you're architects or review it, like anything you can do in person, you can do on a computer really.

I have found no success, like key indicators that are any different if someone's in an office versus not. Like, I think there are some industries where it's very useful to be at a table. Like, you know, if you're architects or review it, like anything you can do in person, you can do on a computer really.

But you know, like my husband, for instance, he's a civil engineer and he loves, he's like, I miss the, everyone in the meeting on the, looking at the same piece of paper on the same table. He likes that kind of thing. So hybrid is great for him. But for me, there's no difference.

But you know, like my husband, for instance, he's a civil engineer and he loves, he's like, I miss the, everyone in the meeting on the, looking at the same piece of paper on the same table. He likes that kind of thing. So hybrid is great for him. But for me, there's no difference.

And so I think it's – for all it shows to me, and, like, this is just my personal opinion, maybe it's not popular, but I think it just shows that you don't trust your people to get their job done.

And so I think it's – for all it shows to me, and, like, this is just my personal opinion, maybe it's not popular, but I think it just shows that you don't trust your people to get their job done.

Yep.

Yep.

Like, I feel like – Like from a culture – From a culture standpoint.

Like, I feel like – Like from a culture – From a culture standpoint.

I think like anything you can work on it, but I definitely think it's something that you have or you don't. In a strong way. Like I think some people think they're self-aware and have no idea what's going on. Yeah, right.

I think like anything you can work on it, but I definitely think it's something that you have or you don't. In a strong way. Like I think some people think they're self-aware and have no idea what's going on. Yeah, right.

And you never see each other. Yeah. Look, it's like you hear companies like when they host their town halls or their big Yeah. That's why I think you're right that why most companies have landed on hybrid because people want both. So they want the ability to like go to an appointment on Wednesday and work from home, but also be able to go into the office on Thursday and see their team.

And you never see each other. Yeah. Look, it's like you hear companies like when they host their town halls or their big Yeah. That's why I think you're right that why most companies have landed on hybrid because people want both. So they want the ability to like go to an appointment on Wednesday and work from home, but also be able to go into the office on Thursday and see their team.

So I think that's probably why most of our clients have landed in that space because the community field does come back. Kind of depends who you are. So I've been remote since like... way before COVID.

So I think that's probably why most of our clients have landed in that space because the community field does come back. Kind of depends who you are. So I've been remote since like... way before COVID.

Because I don't like going into an office, but that's just my personal opinion.

Because I don't like going into an office, but that's just my personal opinion.

This might not be the right place for you. If that, that, that. Yeah, I hear you.

This might not be the right place for you. If that, that, that. Yeah, I hear you.

It is softer.

It is softer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think there's definitely a... Mindfulness? I don't know what the right word is. That wasn't there before in a certain way. I don't think mindfulness is the right word.

Yeah, I think there's definitely a... Mindfulness? I don't know what the right word is. That wasn't there before in a certain way. I don't think mindfulness is the right word.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of the right word.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of the right word.

But what I will say, I agree and I disagree with you. I think like the piece, you can still set, I need XXXXX accomplished by this time. It just… How you get there, like it doesn't… Right.

But what I will say, I agree and I disagree with you. I think like the piece, you can still set, I need XXXXX accomplished by this time. It just… How you get there, like it doesn't… Right.

I think like, you know, if you can't work on Friday because of what your life looks like, but you're still going to hit your deadline, then I don't really care. So I do think… I kind of think I'm a balance of how you're feeling and how I like… Yeah.

I think like, you know, if you can't work on Friday because of what your life looks like, but you're still going to hit your deadline, then I don't really care. So I do think… I kind of think I'm a balance of how you're feeling and how I like… Yeah.

Well, you know you're going to do what's going to work for you.

Well, you know you're going to do what's going to work for you.

Right, and it's not like aligning.

Right, and it's not like aligning.

Yep. No, I totally hear you. I think there's a, I mean, it's like a tricky game. A lot of companies are playing right now too, because they want to feel like they're inclusive and making sure everyone's feeling safe and everyone's feeling comfortable and

Yep. No, I totally hear you. I think there's a, I mean, it's like a tricky game. A lot of companies are playing right now too, because they want to feel like they're inclusive and making sure everyone's feeling safe and everyone's feeling comfortable and

But also there is a bottom line like it's not like where my brain keeps going to like even myself like one of my biggest learnings in my company was like I've kept keep people on for far too long. Yes. Because I'm super empathetic and you know or I'll do work for them or I'll end up picking up the slack and then.

But also there is a bottom line like it's not like where my brain keeps going to like even myself like one of my biggest learnings in my company was like I've kept keep people on for far too long. Yes. Because I'm super empathetic and you know or I'll do work for them or I'll end up picking up the slack and then.

at some point I have to like put my big curl pants on and remember I'm trying to run a company. And I think like that's something as well. Like, so there's this hard thing where you are one of my learnings or one of my areas of opportunities. I want people to like me and I need to like, why? Yeah. I, maybe I'm not for everyone and that's okay. Right. Right. Right.

at some point I have to like put my big curl pants on and remember I'm trying to run a company. And I think like that's something as well. Like, so there's this hard thing where you are one of my learnings or one of my areas of opportunities. I want people to like me and I need to like, why? Yeah. I, maybe I'm not for everyone and that's okay. Right. Right. Right.

What I should be shifting more on is like, I want people to like my work and like my ethic and like my communication. And if they like me or not, it doesn't matter. And that's take, I'm still a work in progress on that point.

What I should be shifting more on is like, I want people to like my work and like my ethic and like my communication. And if they like me or not, it doesn't matter. And that's take, I'm still a work in progress on that point.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the right... This safe way of like... Yeah, safe is a good way to put it.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the right... This safe way of like... Yeah, safe is a good way to put it.

Yes and no. Like I think... The Gen Z generation, I guess, like, has... They'll just say no. And so, like, yes. Like, the real black would be like, okay, that doesn't work for you. Then it's not the right opportunity for you. And I'd rather not place you because you're going to quit anyway. And, like, we're going to waste time and resources. So I think...

Yes and no. Like I think... The Gen Z generation, I guess, like, has... They'll just say no. And so, like, yes. Like, the real black would be like, okay, that doesn't work for you. Then it's not the right opportunity for you. And I'd rather not place you because you're going to quit anyway. And, like, we're going to waste time and resources. So I think...

If we're going to find a silver lining, because that's my mentality, would be like, it's just opening the door for the right people. So I think like my job as a recruiter, my job if we're going to use sales is I just need to paint the picture completely transparently. Like this is what it looks like and it works for you. It doesn't. Right.

If we're going to find a silver lining, because that's my mentality, would be like, it's just opening the door for the right people. So I think like my job as a recruiter, my job if we're going to use sales is I just need to paint the picture completely transparently. Like this is what it looks like and it works for you. It doesn't. Right.

And I think as a sales tactic in general, you want the person to always feel like it's their decision. right? Like even if I'm guiding the process and I'm guiding the decision process, I want you to always feel like you're the one making the choice. And so it's like, here's exactly what it looks like. If this doesn't work for you, that's okay.

And I think as a sales tactic in general, you want the person to always feel like it's their decision. right? Like even if I'm guiding the process and I'm guiding the decision process, I want you to always feel like you're the one making the choice. And so it's like, here's exactly what it looks like. If this doesn't work for you, that's okay.

And I'm not going to be offended if this isn't the right opportunity for you. Here's why I think it is. And you can let me know if you want to have a conversation about it. And I will say there are, like when I think about the senior C-suite level, not even C-suite, but like just senior director, VP level to like this younger generation, there is a difference in work ethic in terms of like

And I'm not going to be offended if this isn't the right opportunity for you. Here's why I think it is. And you can let me know if you want to have a conversation about it. And I will say there are, like when I think about the senior C-suite level, not even C-suite, but like just senior director, VP level to like this younger generation, there is a difference in work ethic in terms of like

what they're willing to do like commuting to COVID really, like when I first started my hiring, and you know, the world was not on fire yet was 45 minute queue is normal. And now people are like, I'm not leaving my house. So that's definitely been different.

what they're willing to do like commuting to COVID really, like when I first started my hiring, and you know, the world was not on fire yet was 45 minute queue is normal. And now people are like, I'm not leaving my house. So that's definitely been different.

So like, if we have a role that's in office, and it's like more than 30 minutes, we can't like search, I would say 30 minutes, like the max people are willing to drive.

So like, if we have a role that's in office, and it's like more than 30 minutes, we can't like search, I would say 30 minutes, like the max people are willing to drive.

And that's shifted a lot because it used to be like, you know, in Toronto, people could live outside of the city and they would willingly commute in every day.

And that's shifted a lot because it used to be like, you know, in Toronto, people could live outside of the city and they would willingly commute in every day.

Do you agree? Yeah, 100%. And I think if you take that into what hiring looks like or the recruitment process, we focus so much on a technical requirement for roles. So you're hiring a software engineer, like, What's their coding experience? But if you're ignoring, I love how to read a room. That's one of my favorite ones.

Do you agree? Yeah, 100%. And I think if you take that into what hiring looks like or the recruitment process, we focus so much on a technical requirement for roles. So you're hiring a software engineer, like, What's their coding experience? But if you're ignoring, I love how to read a room. That's one of my favorite ones.

Yeah. It's not a thing anymore.

Yeah. It's not a thing anymore.

Oh, fun.

Oh, fun.

And it was just normal and no one cared.

And it was just normal and no one cared.

No, I have never experienced that before. I definitely have experienced like mid-interview process, sort of like, you know, you meet me and then you'll meet the hiring manager and someone being like, you know, I don't feel like this is the right environment for me. Like pulling out before their interview. That's the most sort of like Gen Z behavior I've experienced.

No, I have never experienced that before. I definitely have experienced like mid-interview process, sort of like, you know, you meet me and then you'll meet the hiring manager and someone being like, you know, I don't feel like this is the right environment for me. Like pulling out before their interview. That's the most sort of like Gen Z behavior I've experienced.

I say an emergency came up and you had to move your meeting, you know, it was like, I'm so sorry. I have to push this. And then being like, you don't respect my time. So I'm not going to come to the interview today. And it could have been like the interview person, like had to run to their kid's daycare because their kid had to like anything.

I say an emergency came up and you had to move your meeting, you know, it was like, I'm so sorry. I have to push this. And then being like, you don't respect my time. So I'm not going to come to the interview today. And it could have been like the interview person, like had to run to their kid's daycare because their kid had to like anything.

So I find there's like less, there's like a lack of empathy or maybe I don't know if that's.

So I find there's like less, there's like a lack of empathy or maybe I don't know if that's.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My client needed me to move it and they were like, oh, no, you obviously don't respect me. See, this is the kind of bullshit that I'm talking about. No, I don't disagree with you. And I remember being like, this isn't a personal attack on you. This is like the reality of this person's schedule and it happened.

My client needed me to move it and they were like, oh, no, you obviously don't respect me. See, this is the kind of bullshit that I'm talking about. No, I don't disagree with you. And I remember being like, this isn't a personal attack on you. This is like the reality of this person's schedule and it happened.

What's interesting, too, is it's so, like, vastly different. Like, you can tell in the way you communicate with people. And I think, like, there also is a whole new world of work that didn't exist when we were choosing our careers. Like, to your point, like, kids want to be influencers now. That wasn't a thing.

What's interesting, too, is it's so, like, vastly different. Like, you can tell in the way you communicate with people. And I think, like, there also is a whole new world of work that didn't exist when we were choosing our careers. Like, to your point, like, kids want to be influencers now. That wasn't a thing.

They want to be… Or in social media… Or in social media or, like, I don't know, paid to, like, sell a product and, you know, gummy bear hair or whatever.

They want to be… Or in social media… Or in social media or, like, I don't know, paid to, like, sell a product and, you know, gummy bear hair or whatever.

If you're ignoring that and you're ignoring your ability to regulate emotion and have clear conversations and give and receive feedback, they're not going to be successful in the role regardless if they can do the technical skill or not.

If you're ignoring that and you're ignoring your ability to regulate emotion and have clear conversations and give and receive feedback, they're not going to be successful in the role regardless if they can do the technical skill or not.

Yeah, and I think having young kids now, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. You're growing up in this whole world. My oldest is almost four, so we're not there yet. But I do feel like it's just this whole other parenting dynamic. And so when you talk about the generational changes in the interview process or in the hiring force, does that come back to like parenting too? Yeah. which is interesting.

Yeah, and I think having young kids now, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. You're growing up in this whole world. My oldest is almost four, so we're not there yet. But I do feel like it's just this whole other parenting dynamic. And so when you talk about the generational changes in the interview process or in the hiring force, does that come back to like parenting too? Yeah. which is interesting.

Oh, now it's like, what can I, how can I like get into AI or get into content creation?

Oh, now it's like, what can I, how can I like get into AI or get into content creation?

I do feel like there is a reality where there's like a human interaction that can't be replaced.

I do feel like there is a reality where there's like a human interaction that can't be replaced.

And 100%, like even now I use ChatGPT and different AI tools to help me write more efficiently or create content or whatever that looks like. But I do think there's a way for us to work. I mean, maybe I'm being naive, but like harmoniously with AI without it fully replacing.

And 100%, like even now I use ChatGPT and different AI tools to help me write more efficiently or create content or whatever that looks like. But I do think there's a way for us to work. I mean, maybe I'm being naive, but like harmoniously with AI without it fully replacing.

And I think, yes, there's going to be a ton of jobs that are replaced, but I also think it's going to create different opportunities. So I think there, again, maybe I'm just like, like cautiously optimistic all of the time, but I do think as much as things are going to shift, I do think it's still going to create new, new opportunities.

And I think, yes, there's going to be a ton of jobs that are replaced, but I also think it's going to create different opportunities. So I think there, again, maybe I'm just like, like cautiously optimistic all of the time, but I do think as much as things are going to shift, I do think it's still going to create new, new opportunities.

Or I think too, like when I'm thinking about my own future or your own future too, where you're like, okay, so what are podcasters or what are recruiters going to need specifically help from AI and how can I monetize that? Yeah. And I don't know the answer. But like that's something I think about a lot. My husband and I talk about it. He's like, I know, but what are you going to need?

Or I think too, like when I'm thinking about my own future or your own future too, where you're like, okay, so what are podcasters or what are recruiters going to need specifically help from AI and how can I monetize that? Yeah. And I don't know the answer. But like that's something I think about a lot. My husband and I talk about it. He's like, I know, but what are you going to need?

Like how are recruitment and AI going to be partners and how can you be the one to start that platform?

Like how are recruitment and AI going to be partners and how can you be the one to start that platform?

I don't know. I'd love to. I need to figure it out.

I don't know. I'd love to. I need to figure it out.

Yeah, because I mean I'm hopeful that not all of us will be completely eliminated.

Yeah, because I mean I'm hopeful that not all of us will be completely eliminated.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're already seeing it too, though, like those master classes available being like how to like use AI and how to be better at it. And it's kind of one of those situations where we kind of got to get on board. But I think we're in the middle of this cool gap opportunity from like an employment and workforce perspective is like there is a way for us to like monetize what this looks like.

You're already seeing it too, though, like those master classes available being like how to like use AI and how to be better at it. And it's kind of one of those situations where we kind of got to get on board. But I think we're in the middle of this cool gap opportunity from like an employment and workforce perspective is like there is a way for us to like monetize what this looks like.

I just don't know the answer. I know. Well, it's a work in progress.

I just don't know the answer. I know. Well, it's a work in progress.

Yeah. I think we touched on it briefly, but like when we're talking about emotional intelligence, just two things, one on the client side. So like on the hiring side, we need to let go a little bit of like the classic resume that has the exact same job title and the work experience you need and like focus a little bit more on like what's transferable.

Yeah. I think we touched on it briefly, but like when we're talking about emotional intelligence, just two things, one on the client side. So like on the hiring side, we need to let go a little bit of like the classic resume that has the exact same job title and the work experience you need and like focus a little bit more on like what's transferable.

So like that's one of the things I feel like companies aren't doing. And so I think we need to find a way in your interview process, like, is there a way to talk about resiliency and behavioral concepts and social constructs and bringing that into that in addition to what they technically need?

So like that's one of the things I feel like companies aren't doing. And so I think we need to find a way in your interview process, like, is there a way to talk about resiliency and behavioral concepts and social constructs and bringing that into that in addition to what they technically need?

And then the piece on the candidate side that I would say that I think is, we touched on this, but like, I will not ever stop talking about like the power of your network. So if you're all the way from a new grad, if you're a new grad and you're looking for a job, who do you know at the company you're looking for and how can you get a direct connection?

And then the piece on the candidate side that I would say that I think is, we touched on this, but like, I will not ever stop talking about like the power of your network. So if you're all the way from a new grad, if you're a new grad and you're looking for a job, who do you know at the company you're looking for and how can you get a direct connection?

Because that's going to go further than your resume. All the way up to those senior executive levels, it's like, how are you communicating? And the way we all know each other is the way you're going to get ahead. I hate to say that, but it is who you know to a certain extent. And even my own client base, when I first started, I literally just reached out to everyone I've ever met ever, essentially.

Because that's going to go further than your resume. All the way up to those senior executive levels, it's like, how are you communicating? And the way we all know each other is the way you're going to get ahead. I hate to say that, but it is who you know to a certain extent. And even my own client base, when I first started, I literally just reached out to everyone I've ever met ever, essentially.

It was like, I started this company and was anyone want to help me? And A lot of it's a slow game, right? Like I have clients even just this year who like I reached out to like three years ago and they're like, hey, you know what? I am ready now. And you're like, great. I'm glad I kept. It's like that fine line where you don't want to be annoying in recruiting.

It was like, I started this company and was anyone want to help me? And A lot of it's a slow game, right? Like I have clients even just this year who like I reached out to like three years ago and they're like, hey, you know what? I am ready now. And you're like, great. I'm glad I kept. It's like that fine line where you don't want to be annoying in recruiting.

It's like I want to be like pushy to a certain extent, but I want you to still want to hear from me.

It's like I want to be like pushy to a certain extent, but I want you to still want to hear from me.

Well, cause I think you try to put yourself in the other side of it. Like what do I want to hear? And like, I think again, making people feel like it's their choice too. Yeah. So it's like, if you don't want to hear from me, no problem. Please just let me know.

Well, cause I think you try to put yourself in the other side of it. Like what do I want to hear? And like, I think again, making people feel like it's their choice too. Yeah. So it's like, if you don't want to hear from me, no problem. Please just let me know.

Yeah. So our two main platforms would be LinkedIn and Instagram. So Instagram is at the lynchpinco and then on LinkedIn, it's just the lynchpinco. So please come find us and follow along. Thank you so much.

Yeah. So our two main platforms would be LinkedIn and Instagram. So Instagram is at the lynchpinco and then on LinkedIn, it's just the lynchpinco. So please come find us and follow along. Thank you so much.

Yeah, and it's tricky because there's a bias that can come into play where we like, we want to hire people like us.

Yeah, and it's tricky because there's a bias that can come into play where we like, we want to hire people like us.

So if you're vibing with someone when you're interviewing them, it's so easy to be like, this is amazing. I could absolutely hang out with this person. Yeah. But it's less about like the likability or it's not like, like I think a few years ago, like Google, it would be like, oh, can I have a beer with this person? And it's like, it's not that.

So if you're vibing with someone when you're interviewing them, it's so easy to be like, this is amazing. I could absolutely hang out with this person. Yeah. But it's less about like the likability or it's not like, like I think a few years ago, like Google, it would be like, oh, can I have a beer with this person? And it's like, it's not that.

Because you may not necessarily like them as a friend, but do I like their energy and their vibe and their ability to, like, hold a conversation with me? And can I see myself partnering with them? So likability in that way, 100%. And I think part of that, too, is, like, if you're a clear communicator, that likability comes through. So, like, if you're, like…

Because you may not necessarily like them as a friend, but do I like their energy and their vibe and their ability to, like, hold a conversation with me? And can I see myself partnering with them? So likability in that way, 100%. And I think part of that, too, is, like, if you're a clear communicator, that likability comes through. So, like, if you're, like…

And I've talked about this before, but I think it's like if there's two people who are the exact same and they have the exact same experience and they bring the exact same energy, but somebody is a better communicator or they have like a higher sense of urgency in the way they communicate, I'm going to pick them every time because they're going to perform better for you.

And I've talked about this before, but I think it's like if there's two people who are the exact same and they have the exact same experience and they bring the exact same energy, but somebody is a better communicator or they have like a higher sense of urgency in the way they communicate, I'm going to pick them every time because they're going to perform better for you.

Probably my most, I mean, I think I have actually do it to a fault. Like I'm so quick in the way I communicate. I almost think I have expectations of everyone. And I'm like, what do you mean you haven't responded in seven minutes? I'm the same way. And people think I'm crazy.

Probably my most, I mean, I think I have actually do it to a fault. Like I'm so quick in the way I communicate. I almost think I have expectations of everyone. And I'm like, what do you mean you haven't responded in seven minutes? I'm the same way. And people think I'm crazy.

It's so unhealthy. But I think that's why people like working with us.

It's so unhealthy. But I think that's why people like working with us.

And so I think this is probably one of the most commonly asked questions. And any business coach will tell me you should have like a very specific niche. So there's a lot of recruiters who are like just tech recruiters or just marketing or just construction. And I've gone so far out of my way to not do that. So I like to focus on purpose-led companies and purpose-driven people.

And so I think this is probably one of the most commonly asked questions. And any business coach will tell me you should have like a very specific niche. So there's a lot of recruiters who are like just tech recruiters or just marketing or just construction. And I've gone so far out of my way to not do that. So I like to focus on purpose-led companies and purpose-driven people.

Recruitment with purpose is our tagline. And I've curated my team. So I do still have a pipeline in tech and in sales and in legal and in finance. But we are so concerned, I guess is the right word, with who the clients we're working with are. Do the way they treat their people and the way they operate their company align with who we are?

Recruitment with purpose is our tagline. And I've curated my team. So I do still have a pipeline in tech and in sales and in legal and in finance. But we are so concerned, I guess is the right word, with who the clients we're working with are. Do the way they treat their people and the way they operate their company align with who we are?

Because if you can find your way to feel on the same page or on the same path of that, the recruitment process is so much more authentic. But it's my biggest roadblock.

Because if you can find your way to feel on the same page or on the same path of that, the recruitment process is so much more authentic. But it's my biggest roadblock.

Because a lot of people, people who don't know anything about recruiting, I would say, in transparency will come back and be like, you know what? I'm going to go with Jen's company because she's done only tech recruiting for 15 years. But it's like, no, really, if you look at my background, I've got retail, I've got tech, I've got cannabis, I've got automotive.

Because a lot of people, people who don't know anything about recruiting, I would say, in transparency will come back and be like, you know what? I'm going to go with Jen's company because she's done only tech recruiting for 15 years. But it's like, no, really, if you look at my background, I've got retail, I've got tech, I've got cannabis, I've got automotive.

And great recruitment is about understanding the need and honestly caring about candidate and client experience, and you can hire for anyone. My biggest roadblock is getting through, letting people give me a chance to show you what it can actually look like.

And great recruitment is about understanding the need and honestly caring about candidate and client experience, and you can hire for anyone. My biggest roadblock is getting through, letting people give me a chance to show you what it can actually look like.

Because it's so easy to say, oh, well, they've done exactly my type of recruiting for this many years, but that doesn't mean that they're going to give you the same experience.

Because it's so easy to say, oh, well, they've done exactly my type of recruiting for this many years, but that doesn't mean that they're going to give you the same experience.

And I would say you could actually take that into the hiring process, too, because I think if we talk about sort of like more traditional recruitment methods, I think there's a way a lot of people are so stuck on. I need them to have experience in this industry or they need to have done this. But it's like, no, let's break down the fundamental skills for the role.

And I would say you could actually take that into the hiring process, too, because I think if we talk about sort of like more traditional recruitment methods, I think there's a way a lot of people are so stuck on. I need them to have experience in this industry or they need to have done this. But it's like, no, let's break down the fundamental skills for the role.

And if they did this in automotive, they can also do it in tech.

And if they did this in automotive, they can also do it in tech.

If it's the same skill set, like a project manager can manage any like different types of projects.

If it's the same skill set, like a project manager can manage any like different types of projects.

And I think the clients we love working with understand that. And it's our job, I guess, to sell the transferable skill set too. But I think people get really stuck on like titles and industry. And it's like, no, like we need to focus a little bit more. And like, can they do the job properly, regardless if they've done it in the exact same way before?

And I think the clients we love working with understand that. And it's our job, I guess, to sell the transferable skill set too. But I think people get really stuck on like titles and industry. And it's like, no, like we need to focus a little bit more. And like, can they do the job properly, regardless if they've done it in the exact same way before?

Yeah, that was my start into recruitment.

Yeah, that was my start into recruitment.

Yeah, a little bit. I think like there's definitely like a manifesto or that way, but I feel like a lot of it was sort of how do you want to operate in the world? And like at the time it was like, yeah, do you like to move your body? Like, you know, is mindfulness a part of your everyday, that kind of thing.

Yeah, a little bit. I think like there's definitely like a manifesto or that way, but I feel like a lot of it was sort of how do you want to operate in the world? And like at the time it was like, yeah, do you like to move your body? Like, you know, is mindfulness a part of your everyday, that kind of thing.

But the whole, from a recruitment perspective, when a company does that really well, man, my job was easy. Right. Because everyone wanted to work there.

But the whole, from a recruitment perspective, when a company does that really well, man, my job was easy. Right. Because everyone wanted to work there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think I, I probably didn't fit into a certain extent cause I'd never done yoga before and it was a yoga company. So, but I remember that made me stand out, but I think

Yeah. And I think I, I probably didn't fit into a certain extent cause I'd never done yoga before and it was a yoga company. So, but I remember that made me stand out, but I think

It's still so crazy to think about.

It's still so crazy to think about.

Yeah, and there's so many. But yeah, I think that- They were the pioneer. The collective mindset, I guess, is the best way to put it, would be like goal setting and always wanting to better yourself. So there's like a personal development piece that I feel like everyone we hired sort of had in common. And it was sort of like never settling for less and- there's always more you can do.

Yeah, and there's so many. But yeah, I think that- They were the pioneer. The collective mindset, I guess, is the best way to put it, would be like goal setting and always wanting to better yourself. So there's like a personal development piece that I feel like everyone we hired sort of had in common. And it was sort of like never settling for less and- there's always more you can do.

And there's always, there's a continuous learning piece and there's just like a hunger to be better. A hunger. It was part of the consistency.

And there's always, there's a continuous learning piece and there's just like a hunger to be better. A hunger. It was part of the consistency.

So at the store level, that's where I started. I started in the stores as a sales associate and they're called educators. And the front people at the time, this was years ago, but they were called DOFI, which is director of first impressions. And you had to greet someone within six seconds of them coming in. I love this.

So at the store level, that's where I started. I started in the stores as a sales associate and they're called educators. And the front people at the time, this was years ago, but they were called DOFI, which is director of first impressions. And you had to greet someone within six seconds of them coming in. I love this.

And so like you can't, if you're coming in the door, I can't let you get past me essentially without like... morning. You're welcome. Like, thanks so much. So there's definitely a peppy energy. You're not, you're not wrong about that.

And so like you can't, if you're coming in the door, I can't let you get past me essentially without like... morning. You're welcome. Like, thanks so much. So there's definitely a peppy energy. You're not, you're not wrong about that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's training too. Yeah. Like, and I think there's sort of the stores sort of broken down into different sections and yeah, but it was... It never felt, I think, I mean, I was young, like it was one of my first jobs.

There's training too. Yeah. Like, and I think there's sort of the stores sort of broken down into different sections and yeah, but it was... It never felt, I think, I mean, I was young, like it was one of my first jobs.

And I think like one of the things that always landed for me was it never felt like work because every, maybe because everyone was like-minded in a certain, but like I loved everyone. Like a lot of them are still close friends of mine today. And we had so much fun. Really? Like it was such, I would recommend any young person to like work in the stores if that's like the type of retail job.

And I think like one of the things that always landed for me was it never felt like work because every, maybe because everyone was like-minded in a certain, but like I loved everyone. Like a lot of them are still close friends of mine today. And we had so much fun. Really? Like it was such, I would recommend any young person to like work in the stores if that's like the type of retail job.

Yeah, really fun.

Yeah, really fun.

And the hiring kind of came into play with like seasonal, like holiday hiring. So it was like when you're on store leadership and then you're sort of voluntold, you have to hire your team.

And the hiring kind of came into play with like seasonal, like holiday hiring. So it was like when you're on store leadership and then you're sort of voluntold, you have to hire your team.

You have to hire the seasonal employees. And that's how recruiting started. I sort of like fell into it in that way.

You have to hire the seasonal employees. And that's how recruiting started. I sort of like fell into it in that way.

Yeah. I think the most fundamental building blocks example I can think of was Tesla. So they brought me in. I was the first Canadian recruitment or hiring TA employee. So they brought me in to sort of build the recruitment function. And I had this opportunity to take this very successful brand in the States at the time. And what does that look like for Canada?

Yeah. I think the most fundamental building blocks example I can think of was Tesla. So they brought me in. I was the first Canadian recruitment or hiring TA employee. So they brought me in to sort of build the recruitment function. And I had this opportunity to take this very successful brand in the States at the time. And what does that look like for Canada?

And how do we create the same sort of function and culture, but make it unique to who we are and the way we operate? So That was a unique experience because the brand was so well-known. It was similar actually to Lululemon at the time where a lot of people wanted to work there. So it's not that finding people was challenging, but nothing was in place.

And how do we create the same sort of function and culture, but make it unique to who we are and the way we operate? So That was a unique experience because the brand was so well-known. It was similar actually to Lululemon at the time where a lot of people wanted to work there. So it's not that finding people was challenging, but nothing was in place.

So I got this opportunity to kind of create structure and process and the high-level overview of what things could look like for this company as it grew in Canada.

So I got this opportunity to kind of create structure and process and the high-level overview of what things could look like for this company as it grew in Canada.

Yeah. Their whole thing when you get hired was it's harder to get a job here than it is to get into Harvard. That's their whole sentence. And I don't know that the interview process felt like that. I don't know. I didn't go to Harvard, so I can't imagine that. But I would say it was a fairly standard interview process.

Yeah. Their whole thing when you get hired was it's harder to get a job here than it is to get into Harvard. That's their whole sentence. And I don't know that the interview process felt like that. I don't know. I didn't go to Harvard, so I can't imagine that. But I would say it was a fairly standard interview process.

But the way they want you to feel and what they tried really hard to execute in their onboarding is like – congratulations, you're here. You're in this room and not a lot of people get to be in this room. So that was sort of like the vibe and it felt really good at the time. And then I learned a lot in that role and I was a part of a mass layoff.

But the way they want you to feel and what they tried really hard to execute in their onboarding is like – congratulations, you're here. You're in this room and not a lot of people get to be in this room. So that was sort of like the vibe and it felt really good at the time. And then I learned a lot in that role and I was a part of a mass layoff.

So I spent years building this function and then they ended up essentially axing it and putting everything back in California.

So I spent years building this function and then they ended up essentially axing it and putting everything back in California.

And this was like everything from service people at like the car level, like detailers, like all the way up to like executives.

And this was like everything from service people at like the car level, like detailers, like all the way up to like executives.

So that was a wild journey. And I think, I mean, when you, you notice flags once you're out of a situation too, right? Like when you leave. And so it was such an incredible learning opportunity. But then while I was there, there was so many layoffs. And so it's like, I almost should have seen it coming. Right. Yeah. So they would hire and also... Project-based hiring, essentially.

So that was a wild journey. And I think, I mean, when you, you notice flags once you're out of a situation too, right? Like when you leave. And so it was such an incredible learning opportunity. But then while I was there, there was so many layoffs. And so it's like, I almost should have seen it coming. Right. Yeah. So they would hire and also... Project-based hiring, essentially.

So, like, this model is releasing. We need to hire 5,000 people to get this done.

So, like, this model is releasing. We need to hire 5,000 people to get this done.

And so I was always in Fremont. That's where I had to go. And, like, yeah, you'd go and he'd be on a stage and he'd be trying to motivate everybody. But I never really was involved. Like, anyone I was building... like culture or strategy with would have been just like on the HR side. He wasn't, I don't, I didn't see him.

And so I was always in Fremont. That's where I had to go. And, like, yeah, you'd go and he'd be on a stage and he'd be trying to motivate everybody. But I never really was involved. Like, anyone I was building... like culture or strategy with would have been just like on the HR side. He wasn't, I don't, I didn't see him.

That's probably the best way I would describe it. It was sort of like, congratulate. Oh my gosh, you made it into this room. And I did feel that way because it worked. Like, it felt great. I was like, it, a lot of people wanted this job and I got to have this job. That's incredible.

That's probably the best way I would describe it. It was sort of like, congratulate. Oh my gosh, you made it into this room. And I did feel that way because it worked. Like, it felt great. I was like, it, a lot of people wanted this job and I got to have this job. That's incredible.

No, I think not necessarily. Yes, some people, but no, there was no sort of theme in that way. No expectation in that way. But just like the vibe to the people we were bringing, it was like, congratulations, like you've made it.

No, I think not necessarily. Yes, some people, but no, there was no sort of theme in that way. No expectation in that way. But just like the vibe to the people we were bringing, it was like, congratulations, like you've made it.

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it.

Yeah, great question. So this is a super misconception too. So the way agencies work, well, you were in one, so, but for everyone else.

So clients hire us. So like Lou Lemon would hire me to hire for their people. So the candidates aren't paying anything. So like the candidates were like, we're given a role and then we're like, great, we need to find candidates. But you can still reach out because you're still building my pipeline and helping.

LinkedIn's definitely a big one. There's like alumni job boards, like, you know, or like if you're in design, you're looking on Behance, like you're kind of picking specific job boards for the type of industry you're hiring in. But honestly, LinkedIn is a ton of it. And then just like who you've The secret sauce to recruitment is just keeping in touch with people. So like really just networks.

Like I think the strongest recruiters just have like years and years of these strong networks. And so a lot of the time we'll get a new role. I don't know. We get accountants a lot. So like we need another accountant. It's like, oh, great. I can think of 15 people to reach out to before I even have to go on LinkedIn. But if you're thinking about platforms, I'd say LinkedIn's are like our most used.

Yeah. Or that you've placed somewhere else. Or we've placed, yeah, because you keep in contact with someone and then in six years they might want a new job, whatever that looks like, or two more recently. But we also have sort of open forums. Like a lot of people will reach out, as you said, and be like, I need help. It's like, great, here's a link. Can you fill this out? And it has like,

what's your name? What's your contact information? What type of job are you looking for? Do you want to be remote? Where do you live? What's your compensation expectation? Can you list some metrics on like why you've been successful, et cetera. And then we're also like, do you want to be anonymous, whatever it looks like. And then I've sort of have a pipeline from that.

And when I have a new role, I can run it through that and see like who matches. So it's, it's really selfishly, it really builds my pipeline quickly so I can hire people faster for companies. But also we get to, we get to help people too, which is nice.

Do you want to know why I think that is part of it?

I think when you are reasonably happy, people, if they're willing to take a call with me, they're not perfectly happy in their role.

Or sometimes they're just networking.

Yes, that's part of it. But there is something like if you don't need it, you don't care, I guess, in the same way. And you're so much more confident in the way you communicate and you interview better. Totally. So exactly. So I really believe that for sure.

But you can hear it sometimes. Like, obviously, there's so many layoffs in the world and all these things. But, like, if people get to the point where they're like, I don't even care. I'll take a PECA. And it's like, just know your worth and have confidence and you'll come across.

And the thing is, when you're super niche, like especially on the tech side, they're reached out to all the time. Totally. So even on LinkedIn, you'll see it'll literally be like, stop emailing me. Like it's like people. Wow. And so I think in general, recruiters kind of, they have a bad feeling about us a lot of the time.

But I was in tech recruiting for a while and you just keep in touch with people. And for me, I find the best way to like,

present an opportunity to someone is just be super transparent so those people and I'm super quick I'm like here's the company here's the job posting here's the pay it's remote if this has any interest to you let me know or refer me otherwise just like tell me to go away right and most people will be like not right now thanks thanks Colleen like no or like here's a friend who's looking and you can just keep it short and sweet but like so many recruiters reach out with very vague information like hey I have this really exciting opportunity it's like just tell me the company and tell me the pay and if I'm interested I'll let you know

That's exactly. I've never understood recruiters who are direct. It makes no sense to me.

Yeah. So I think there's, I mean, just we've been talking about tech. Tech pays really well at all levels.

Yeah. I think just starting from the world I know really well is I think recruiting is such an interesting space because you don't need a formal education. If you have one, that's great, but you don't need it, right? Like, recruiting. There's no designation.

There's no designation you need. And, you know, I have people in my life who like have all these letters after their name and they went to school for 15 years. And it's like, I make significantly more. Like, I mean that in a, it's coming across as not humble, but also. Don't be humble on this show. I want you to tell us the truth. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

So it's like, I, if, especially in, um, agency recruitment, because a lot of it's commission based. So if you're confident and you're great at what you do and it's uncapped commission, you're just going to keep earning. But the other side, like this is like a less conventional path, but I feel like so many trades roles are ignored.

Like being an electrician or a plumber or those pieces, they're making a significant amount of money and you're able to get educated or the requirements you need in a much faster timeframe. And so I think that's something that's kind of ignored and also needed. So we work with influencers all the time. We hire for them all the time. At some point, that's not going to be a job anymore.

And you know, what's always going to be needed is those like essential. So like what's essential that's going to be needed all the time?

Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Yeah. Some people just do executive search. Like we do everything from entry level through executive.

Remembering is so key. I always say this to people. Everyone's like, how are you good at your job? What does it mean to be successful in recruitment? It's really just keeping in touch with people and remembering details.

100%.

So as a company, like from a business owner, we charge 20% of the base salary and then your recruiters will get anywhere from like 10 to 15%. Yeah.

Yeah, especially in the emergency space as well, because at that time you're like, I'll pay whatever to fix this, please.

Right. And so I think that's probably just an underrated. I mean, when you talk about recruiters, I feel like no one wakes up and is like, I'm going to be a recruiter when I grow up. But I think you're right. There's sort of like, my parents want me to be a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher or whatever it is. And I think there's some underrated pieces that are missing.

Even though my kids are younger, like they're not in school yet, and I just even think about the daycare people. Yeah. I'll leave, I'll drop my kids off sometimes and everyone's crying and I'm like, you're not paid enough. They're not paid enough. I don't know how. I go crazy with two of them.

Yeah. And I think like even maybe less, we did some landscape hiring for a while. And so like maybe not like direct like laborers, but like that can grow into sort of like a more niche trade. But I just think in general, people overlook those essential pieces for things that are needed. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

And I think there are key industries, like if you're thinking more on the corporate side, like anything with a commission, so like recruitment's the same way because it's sales, but anything in sales where you have the ability, if you're great at what you do, you're going to do well. Not everyone's going to do well in these industries because-

Oh, great question. Yeah. And it feels so simple, but I think when you think about self-awareness or like a high emotional intelligence or a high ability to be self-aware for me feels like one of the most important parts.

I think about this all the time. Like when I first started my company and everyone's like, oh my gosh, you're doing it. And you're like, do you know how hard this is? I'm crying in the shower and trying to figure out what to do every day.

And you find your groove, but it's like you go from being... So if I'm an expert in recruitment and then I start a company, all of a sudden I have to be an expert in finance and tech and marketing. And you're not. And you're learning and you're making so many mistakes, but...

If you're – it's not for everyone, but if you have the – like an entrepreneurial spirit or whatever you want to call it, I think really the word is resilience. If you can be a resilient person, you can make it happen. But I don't remember the stat, but it's something like wildly high that the number of people who try to start a business and fail. They do. Yeah.

I love that.

You're not going to get anywhere if you don't fail.

And I think a lot of it is we talk about a lot of interviews sometimes talk about like what went wrong or like what's an error you made or a mistake you made and being able to be self-aware and hold yourself accountable to what went wrong. And also talk about what you learn and how do we move forward is like that's a beautiful skill to have.

And having something work out. I had somebody, like an old mentor, tell me once to look at... to look at like a setback or a failure as feedback.

And I, it resonated with me at the time. And it's like, if you can find a way to, okay, this didn't go well, but what can I learn from it? Because I'm going to do it again.

truly like, there's so many that go around, but one that I, yeah, we should. But the one I, that always has resonated with me too, which I hate to, it makes you so uncomfortable, but you're not going to grow if you're not uncomfortable. So like growth is going to, whatever that is, growth happens out of your comfort zone or whatever it is.

And just being able to articulate what you've done well and metrics and data. So I think there's like a self-awareness piece, what I would say is a really important and really useful part to have.

Well, I think anyone who starts a small business... And it was all about rejection.

It's a lot of no in your face.

Yeah. Like there are I don't know. I can't remember. But you like you could throw a stone and hit like 20 different agencies just within my like area where I live. And I think it's so it's consistently something is somebody told me like a competitor who's a friend of mine told me when I first started my business, there's more than enough work for all of us. You just have to find your lane.

And it's so true. Like, you know, I think even a few years ago, I would kind of work with anyone because I wanted a client, right? And I was like, sure. And then, you know, as I've kind of gained more success, I'm able to be like, I don't actually know that we're right for each other. I don't really like the way you treat your people in a kind way.

So it's like, I'm going to like find my groove and my people and like, find my space in it and sort of like, how can we differentiate? Like if we're not trying to be like everyone else, we don't want to work with everyone. We want to like be, I don't know, like curate kind of the type of clients we want to work with. So that's been cool too.

Yes. So just on like a geographical location, like the remote – If I'm given a role and you see it's remote first, it's always going to be easier. You can cast a wider net. Like, you know, you can even like if they're in a different time zone, even you can shift hours. But like being remote allows for the largest candidate pool. A lot of companies have kind of fallen back into a hybrid model.

So like coming into the office a couple of days. But when we have companies like we have a few clients and they're lovely, but it's sort of like. like demanding five days a week in office, nobody wants that anymore. And so I think, yes, there's some roles like nurses, like there's some roles you have to be in person, that kind of thing.

But I do feel like I'm going to use the word flexibility instead of remote. Like I think the most attractive thing companies can offer is flexibility. And what I mean by that is not just where you work, but also... time, like even my own team, I know recruitment's a little bit like you just need your computer and a phone, but it's sort of like, I don't really care when you work or where you work.

I'm going to know if you're doing your job by the number of people you hire or you don't. And my employees, I feel one of the things they, you know, we do surveys a lot. Like, what do you like about being here? Like what's working and what's not working.

And I think it's like, if you give your team flexibility, they're going to feel trusted and people who feel trusted want to do well for you because they want to be around you. So I think flexibility in terms of like, yeah, the hours you work or like what you need.

Like maybe I want to pick my kids up every day at three, but then I'm going to do a little work later in the evening because that works for me. Or I'm not going to work at all on Wednesday because I want to go do something, but I'll work a little bit on Sunday. So I think there's like, trust your team to get the job done and they will, as opposed to sort of setting rigid regulations.

The companies that set those strict rules, I find like nobody's going to stay.

I have found no success, like key indicators that are any different if someone's in an office versus not. Like, I think there are some industries where it's very useful to be at a table. Like, you know, if you're architects or review it, like anything you can do in person, you can do on a computer really.

But you know, like my husband, for instance, he's a civil engineer and he loves, he's like, I miss the, everyone in the meeting on the, looking at the same piece of paper on the same table. He likes that kind of thing. So hybrid is great for him. But for me, there's no difference.

And so I think it's – for all it shows to me, and, like, this is just my personal opinion, maybe it's not popular, but I think it just shows that you don't trust your people to get their job done.

Yep.

Like, I feel like – Like from a culture – From a culture standpoint.

I think like anything you can work on it, but I definitely think it's something that you have or you don't. In a strong way. Like I think some people think they're self-aware and have no idea what's going on. Yeah, right.

And you never see each other. Yeah. Look, it's like you hear companies like when they host their town halls or their big Yeah. That's why I think you're right that why most companies have landed on hybrid because people want both. So they want the ability to like go to an appointment on Wednesday and work from home, but also be able to go into the office on Thursday and see their team.

So I think that's probably why most of our clients have landed in that space because the community field does come back. Kind of depends who you are. So I've been remote since like... way before COVID.

Because I don't like going into an office, but that's just my personal opinion.

This might not be the right place for you. If that, that, that. Yeah, I hear you.

It is softer.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think there's definitely a... Mindfulness? I don't know what the right word is. That wasn't there before in a certain way. I don't think mindfulness is the right word.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of the right word.

But what I will say, I agree and I disagree with you. I think like the piece, you can still set, I need XXXXX accomplished by this time. It just… How you get there, like it doesn't… Right.

I think like, you know, if you can't work on Friday because of what your life looks like, but you're still going to hit your deadline, then I don't really care. So I do think… I kind of think I'm a balance of how you're feeling and how I like… Yeah.

Well, you know you're going to do what's going to work for you.

Right, and it's not like aligning.

Yep. No, I totally hear you. I think there's a, I mean, it's like a tricky game. A lot of companies are playing right now too, because they want to feel like they're inclusive and making sure everyone's feeling safe and everyone's feeling comfortable and

But also there is a bottom line like it's not like where my brain keeps going to like even myself like one of my biggest learnings in my company was like I've kept keep people on for far too long. Yes. Because I'm super empathetic and you know or I'll do work for them or I'll end up picking up the slack and then.

at some point I have to like put my big curl pants on and remember I'm trying to run a company. And I think like that's something as well. Like, so there's this hard thing where you are one of my learnings or one of my areas of opportunities. I want people to like me and I need to like, why? Yeah. I, maybe I'm not for everyone and that's okay. Right. Right. Right.

What I should be shifting more on is like, I want people to like my work and like my ethic and like my communication. And if they like me or not, it doesn't matter. And that's take, I'm still a work in progress on that point.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the right... This safe way of like... Yeah, safe is a good way to put it.

Yes and no. Like I think... The Gen Z generation, I guess, like, has... They'll just say no. And so, like, yes. Like, the real black would be like, okay, that doesn't work for you. Then it's not the right opportunity for you. And I'd rather not place you because you're going to quit anyway. And, like, we're going to waste time and resources. So I think...

If we're going to find a silver lining, because that's my mentality, would be like, it's just opening the door for the right people. So I think like my job as a recruiter, my job if we're going to use sales is I just need to paint the picture completely transparently. Like this is what it looks like and it works for you. It doesn't. Right.

And I think as a sales tactic in general, you want the person to always feel like it's their decision. right? Like even if I'm guiding the process and I'm guiding the decision process, I want you to always feel like you're the one making the choice. And so it's like, here's exactly what it looks like. If this doesn't work for you, that's okay.

And I'm not going to be offended if this isn't the right opportunity for you. Here's why I think it is. And you can let me know if you want to have a conversation about it. And I will say there are, like when I think about the senior C-suite level, not even C-suite, but like just senior director, VP level to like this younger generation, there is a difference in work ethic in terms of like

what they're willing to do like commuting to COVID really, like when I first started my hiring, and you know, the world was not on fire yet was 45 minute queue is normal. And now people are like, I'm not leaving my house. So that's definitely been different.

So like, if we have a role that's in office, and it's like more than 30 minutes, we can't like search, I would say 30 minutes, like the max people are willing to drive.

And that's shifted a lot because it used to be like, you know, in Toronto, people could live outside of the city and they would willingly commute in every day.

Do you agree? Yeah, 100%. And I think if you take that into what hiring looks like or the recruitment process, we focus so much on a technical requirement for roles. So you're hiring a software engineer, like, What's their coding experience? But if you're ignoring, I love how to read a room. That's one of my favorite ones.

Yeah. It's not a thing anymore.

Oh, fun.

And it was just normal and no one cared.

No, I have never experienced that before. I definitely have experienced like mid-interview process, sort of like, you know, you meet me and then you'll meet the hiring manager and someone being like, you know, I don't feel like this is the right environment for me. Like pulling out before their interview. That's the most sort of like Gen Z behavior I've experienced.

I say an emergency came up and you had to move your meeting, you know, it was like, I'm so sorry. I have to push this. And then being like, you don't respect my time. So I'm not going to come to the interview today. And it could have been like the interview person, like had to run to their kid's daycare because their kid had to like anything.

So I find there's like less, there's like a lack of empathy or maybe I don't know if that's.

Yeah.

My client needed me to move it and they were like, oh, no, you obviously don't respect me. See, this is the kind of bullshit that I'm talking about. No, I don't disagree with you. And I remember being like, this isn't a personal attack on you. This is like the reality of this person's schedule and it happened.

What's interesting, too, is it's so, like, vastly different. Like, you can tell in the way you communicate with people. And I think, like, there also is a whole new world of work that didn't exist when we were choosing our careers. Like, to your point, like, kids want to be influencers now. That wasn't a thing.

They want to be… Or in social media… Or in social media or, like, I don't know, paid to, like, sell a product and, you know, gummy bear hair or whatever.

If you're ignoring that and you're ignoring your ability to regulate emotion and have clear conversations and give and receive feedback, they're not going to be successful in the role regardless if they can do the technical skill or not.

Yeah, and I think having young kids now, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. You're growing up in this whole world. My oldest is almost four, so we're not there yet. But I do feel like it's just this whole other parenting dynamic. And so when you talk about the generational changes in the interview process or in the hiring force, does that come back to like parenting too? Yeah. which is interesting.

Oh, now it's like, what can I, how can I like get into AI or get into content creation?

I do feel like there is a reality where there's like a human interaction that can't be replaced.

And 100%, like even now I use ChatGPT and different AI tools to help me write more efficiently or create content or whatever that looks like. But I do think there's a way for us to work. I mean, maybe I'm being naive, but like harmoniously with AI without it fully replacing.

And I think, yes, there's going to be a ton of jobs that are replaced, but I also think it's going to create different opportunities. So I think there, again, maybe I'm just like, like cautiously optimistic all of the time, but I do think as much as things are going to shift, I do think it's still going to create new, new opportunities.

Or I think too, like when I'm thinking about my own future or your own future too, where you're like, okay, so what are podcasters or what are recruiters going to need specifically help from AI and how can I monetize that? Yeah. And I don't know the answer. But like that's something I think about a lot. My husband and I talk about it. He's like, I know, but what are you going to need?

Like how are recruitment and AI going to be partners and how can you be the one to start that platform?

I don't know. I'd love to. I need to figure it out.

Yeah, because I mean I'm hopeful that not all of us will be completely eliminated.

Yeah.

You're already seeing it too, though, like those master classes available being like how to like use AI and how to be better at it. And it's kind of one of those situations where we kind of got to get on board. But I think we're in the middle of this cool gap opportunity from like an employment and workforce perspective is like there is a way for us to like monetize what this looks like.

I just don't know the answer. I know. Well, it's a work in progress.

Yeah. I think we touched on it briefly, but like when we're talking about emotional intelligence, just two things, one on the client side. So like on the hiring side, we need to let go a little bit of like the classic resume that has the exact same job title and the work experience you need and like focus a little bit more on like what's transferable.

So like that's one of the things I feel like companies aren't doing. And so I think we need to find a way in your interview process, like, is there a way to talk about resiliency and behavioral concepts and social constructs and bringing that into that in addition to what they technically need?

And then the piece on the candidate side that I would say that I think is, we touched on this, but like, I will not ever stop talking about like the power of your network. So if you're all the way from a new grad, if you're a new grad and you're looking for a job, who do you know at the company you're looking for and how can you get a direct connection?

Because that's going to go further than your resume. All the way up to those senior executive levels, it's like, how are you communicating? And the way we all know each other is the way you're going to get ahead. I hate to say that, but it is who you know to a certain extent. And even my own client base, when I first started, I literally just reached out to everyone I've ever met ever, essentially.

It was like, I started this company and was anyone want to help me? And A lot of it's a slow game, right? Like I have clients even just this year who like I reached out to like three years ago and they're like, hey, you know what? I am ready now. And you're like, great. I'm glad I kept. It's like that fine line where you don't want to be annoying in recruiting.

It's like I want to be like pushy to a certain extent, but I want you to still want to hear from me.

Well, cause I think you try to put yourself in the other side of it. Like what do I want to hear? And like, I think again, making people feel like it's their choice too. Yeah. So it's like, if you don't want to hear from me, no problem. Please just let me know.

Yeah. So our two main platforms would be LinkedIn and Instagram. So Instagram is at the lynchpinco and then on LinkedIn, it's just the lynchpinco. So please come find us and follow along. Thank you so much.

Yeah, and it's tricky because there's a bias that can come into play where we like, we want to hire people like us.

So if you're vibing with someone when you're interviewing them, it's so easy to be like, this is amazing. I could absolutely hang out with this person. Yeah. But it's less about like the likability or it's not like, like I think a few years ago, like Google, it would be like, oh, can I have a beer with this person? And it's like, it's not that.

Because you may not necessarily like them as a friend, but do I like their energy and their vibe and their ability to, like, hold a conversation with me? And can I see myself partnering with them? So likability in that way, 100%. And I think part of that, too, is, like, if you're a clear communicator, that likability comes through. So, like, if you're, like…

And I've talked about this before, but I think it's like if there's two people who are the exact same and they have the exact same experience and they bring the exact same energy, but somebody is a better communicator or they have like a higher sense of urgency in the way they communicate, I'm going to pick them every time because they're going to perform better for you.

Probably my most, I mean, I think I have actually do it to a fault. Like I'm so quick in the way I communicate. I almost think I have expectations of everyone. And I'm like, what do you mean you haven't responded in seven minutes? I'm the same way. And people think I'm crazy.

It's so unhealthy. But I think that's why people like working with us.

And so I think this is probably one of the most commonly asked questions. And any business coach will tell me you should have like a very specific niche. So there's a lot of recruiters who are like just tech recruiters or just marketing or just construction. And I've gone so far out of my way to not do that. So I like to focus on purpose-led companies and purpose-driven people.

Recruitment with purpose is our tagline. And I've curated my team. So I do still have a pipeline in tech and in sales and in legal and in finance. But we are so concerned, I guess is the right word, with who the clients we're working with are. Do the way they treat their people and the way they operate their company align with who we are?

Because if you can find your way to feel on the same page or on the same path of that, the recruitment process is so much more authentic. But it's my biggest roadblock.

Because a lot of people, people who don't know anything about recruiting, I would say, in transparency will come back and be like, you know what? I'm going to go with Jen's company because she's done only tech recruiting for 15 years. But it's like, no, really, if you look at my background, I've got retail, I've got tech, I've got cannabis, I've got automotive.

And great recruitment is about understanding the need and honestly caring about candidate and client experience, and you can hire for anyone. My biggest roadblock is getting through, letting people give me a chance to show you what it can actually look like.

Because it's so easy to say, oh, well, they've done exactly my type of recruiting for this many years, but that doesn't mean that they're going to give you the same experience.

And I would say you could actually take that into the hiring process, too, because I think if we talk about sort of like more traditional recruitment methods, I think there's a way a lot of people are so stuck on. I need them to have experience in this industry or they need to have done this. But it's like, no, let's break down the fundamental skills for the role.

And if they did this in automotive, they can also do it in tech.

If it's the same skill set, like a project manager can manage any like different types of projects.

And I think the clients we love working with understand that. And it's our job, I guess, to sell the transferable skill set too. But I think people get really stuck on like titles and industry. And it's like, no, like we need to focus a little bit more. And like, can they do the job properly, regardless if they've done it in the exact same way before?

Yeah, that was my start into recruitment.

Yeah, a little bit. I think like there's definitely like a manifesto or that way, but I feel like a lot of it was sort of how do you want to operate in the world? And like at the time it was like, yeah, do you like to move your body? Like, you know, is mindfulness a part of your everyday, that kind of thing.

But the whole, from a recruitment perspective, when a company does that really well, man, my job was easy. Right. Because everyone wanted to work there.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think I, I probably didn't fit into a certain extent cause I'd never done yoga before and it was a yoga company. So, but I remember that made me stand out, but I think

It's still so crazy to think about.

Yeah, and there's so many. But yeah, I think that- They were the pioneer. The collective mindset, I guess, is the best way to put it, would be like goal setting and always wanting to better yourself. So there's like a personal development piece that I feel like everyone we hired sort of had in common. And it was sort of like never settling for less and- there's always more you can do.

And there's always, there's a continuous learning piece and there's just like a hunger to be better. A hunger. It was part of the consistency.

So at the store level, that's where I started. I started in the stores as a sales associate and they're called educators. And the front people at the time, this was years ago, but they were called DOFI, which is director of first impressions. And you had to greet someone within six seconds of them coming in. I love this.

And so like you can't, if you're coming in the door, I can't let you get past me essentially without like... morning. You're welcome. Like, thanks so much. So there's definitely a peppy energy. You're not, you're not wrong about that.

Yeah.

There's training too. Yeah. Like, and I think there's sort of the stores sort of broken down into different sections and yeah, but it was... It never felt, I think, I mean, I was young, like it was one of my first jobs.

And I think like one of the things that always landed for me was it never felt like work because every, maybe because everyone was like-minded in a certain, but like I loved everyone. Like a lot of them are still close friends of mine today. And we had so much fun. Really? Like it was such, I would recommend any young person to like work in the stores if that's like the type of retail job.

Yeah, really fun.

And the hiring kind of came into play with like seasonal, like holiday hiring. So it was like when you're on store leadership and then you're sort of voluntold, you have to hire your team.

You have to hire the seasonal employees. And that's how recruiting started. I sort of like fell into it in that way.

Yeah. I think the most fundamental building blocks example I can think of was Tesla. So they brought me in. I was the first Canadian recruitment or hiring TA employee. So they brought me in to sort of build the recruitment function. And I had this opportunity to take this very successful brand in the States at the time. And what does that look like for Canada?

And how do we create the same sort of function and culture, but make it unique to who we are and the way we operate? So That was a unique experience because the brand was so well-known. It was similar actually to Lululemon at the time where a lot of people wanted to work there. So it's not that finding people was challenging, but nothing was in place.

So I got this opportunity to kind of create structure and process and the high-level overview of what things could look like for this company as it grew in Canada.

Yeah. Their whole thing when you get hired was it's harder to get a job here than it is to get into Harvard. That's their whole sentence. And I don't know that the interview process felt like that. I don't know. I didn't go to Harvard, so I can't imagine that. But I would say it was a fairly standard interview process.

But the way they want you to feel and what they tried really hard to execute in their onboarding is like – congratulations, you're here. You're in this room and not a lot of people get to be in this room. So that was sort of like the vibe and it felt really good at the time. And then I learned a lot in that role and I was a part of a mass layoff.

So I spent years building this function and then they ended up essentially axing it and putting everything back in California.

And this was like everything from service people at like the car level, like detailers, like all the way up to like executives.

So that was a wild journey. And I think, I mean, when you, you notice flags once you're out of a situation too, right? Like when you leave. And so it was such an incredible learning opportunity. But then while I was there, there was so many layoffs. And so it's like, I almost should have seen it coming. Right. Yeah. So they would hire and also... Project-based hiring, essentially.

So, like, this model is releasing. We need to hire 5,000 people to get this done.

And so I was always in Fremont. That's where I had to go. And, like, yeah, you'd go and he'd be on a stage and he'd be trying to motivate everybody. But I never really was involved. Like, anyone I was building... like culture or strategy with would have been just like on the HR side. He wasn't, I don't, I didn't see him.

That's probably the best way I would describe it. It was sort of like, congratulate. Oh my gosh, you made it into this room. And I did feel that way because it worked. Like, it felt great. I was like, it, a lot of people wanted this job and I got to have this job. That's incredible.

No, I think not necessarily. Yes, some people, but no, there was no sort of theme in that way. No expectation in that way. But just like the vibe to the people we were bringing, it was like, congratulations, like you've made it.