Dan Ivascyn

lower quality, below investment grade type bond.

Now you've got to be careful.

And sometimes it may say IG on it.

We don't quite believe the rating agencies in that it's investment grade, but you get enough spread cushion where you can compare it to some type of lower quality bank loan.

where you don't get good protective terms in the deal.

All this stuff, you know, we read about all the time where, wait a minute, I thought I was senior and then ended up, because I had bad docs, you know, someone was able to, you know, lend and take away my collateral.

Here, you have a lot of ability to negotiate and find value.

Or both.

Oh, ideally.

Yeah, ideally.

But I think in this environment, the terms matter a lot, just given the uncertainty, given the complexity.

So we think that if we have a chance to help drive terms that we're a large enough firm, we have...

perspectives from our real estate group on the risks of developing a data center.

We have folks on the infrastructure team or the asset back lending team that understand the nature of those types of contracts and how

In theory, it may sound like you have good collateral, but you better make sure you have the ability to go get it and realize on it.

And then when you have to go get it, the price is a lot lower on that collateral than you tend to think.

So that's an environment where we should be able to add good value for investors.

But one, we don't want to be wildly overweight this risk.

It's a sector where we want to generate attractive return, not own too much of it.

Yeah, and that's a great point.