Dani Grant

Moats are dead and brand is the only moat. You know, Peter Thiel says like the best way to compete is to not compete. And I think that brand is the best way you can do that. Where if you occupy enough mental space for a category, no one is searching for an alternative. Like basically the strategy for startups right now is to be Coca-Cola. It's like, why do you drink Coca-Cola?

Moats are dead and brand is the only moat. You know, Peter Thiel says like the best way to compete is to not compete. And I think that brand is the best way you can do that. Where if you occupy enough mental space for a category, no one is searching for an alternative. Like basically the strategy for startups right now is to be Coca-Cola. It's like, why do you drink Coca-Cola?

Let millennials invest in VC funds. What you would do is you'd create a shadow LP that becomes an LP in all these funds and then allows the general public to be a part of that LP. So like what it would broaden access to is like you as a 25 year old could buy a hundred dollars of A16Zs, you know, fund, whatever, whether or not the VCs will enjoy that TBD, but do people want it? A hundred percent.

Let millennials invest in VC funds. What you would do is you'd create a shadow LP that becomes an LP in all these funds and then allows the general public to be a part of that LP. So like what it would broaden access to is like you as a 25 year old could buy a hundred dollars of A16Zs, you know, fund, whatever, whether or not the VCs will enjoy that TBD, but do people want it? A hundred percent.

Yes, yeah. This is, for the record, an idea that won't work. And it won't, like, and there are more reasons than that that it won't work. It's like, also, they love not having to share their fund, like, returns with the general public. And this would change that. Like, it's like, for all the reasons this won't work. This is sort of an idea kind of like, allow Harvard to accept more students.

Yes, yeah. This is, for the record, an idea that won't work. And it won't, like, and there are more reasons than that that it won't work. It's like, also, they love not having to share their fund, like, returns with the general public. And this would change that. Like, it's like, for all the reasons this won't work. This is sort of an idea kind of like, allow Harvard to accept more students.

And it's like, that's not really what they do. Yeah.

And it's like, that's not really what they do. Yeah.

Totally. At the time that we wrote this Notion doc, a company had just launched called Otis, which was the Skillshare founder launching a new financial startup. And it allowed, like, I guess it's targeted for young people, but allowed anyone to invest in like alternative assets like art and sneakers and just own a part of culture. And when I saw that, I was like, that's super inspiring.

Totally. At the time that we wrote this Notion doc, a company had just launched called Otis, which was the Skillshare founder launching a new financial startup. And it allowed, like, I guess it's targeted for young people, but allowed anyone to invest in like alternative assets like art and sneakers and just own a part of culture. And when I saw that, I was like, that's super inspiring.

What else do millennials want to be a part of? And I was like, A16C.

What else do millennials want to be a part of? And I was like, A16C.

We had like a call scheduled to go through our notion and pick what startup to start. And before we could even open this doc, we just started gossiping about our old team and talking about this crazy like PM engineer process. that was happening right now in the team. It was like, it was early COVID.

We had like a call scheduled to go through our notion and pick what startup to start. And before we could even open this doc, we just started gossiping about our old team and talking about this crazy like PM engineer process. that was happening right now in the team. It was like, it was early COVID.

Yeah. At the time, so this one is, okay, the one more theme that I got very interested in at the time was these in-person events. And I think that now is the time to start in-person things because we're all so, we all realize just how precious they are, but they're all really hard to start because the quality bar for what you'll attend a second time that's in-person is just super high.

Yeah. At the time, so this one is, okay, the one more theme that I got very interested in at the time was these in-person events. And I think that now is the time to start in-person things because we're all so, we all realize just how precious they are, but they're all really hard to start because the quality bar for what you'll attend a second time that's in-person is just super high.

And so there is an amazing company called Sofar Sounds. Are you familiar?

And so there is an amazing company called Sofar Sounds. Are you familiar?

They are concerts in people's homes. But the thing that they just got right is they got the formula that you can trust and you don't know what you're going to get until you show up. So you know it's going to be 60 minutes, three bands play, like 10 minutes each, but like breaks in the middle. So you show up and then you know that they've curated the quality.

They are concerts in people's homes. But the thing that they just got right is they got the formula that you can trust and you don't know what you're going to get until you show up. So you know it's going to be 60 minutes, three bands play, like 10 minutes each, but like breaks in the middle. So you show up and then you know that they've curated the quality.

So one idea in this doc is so far sounds for talks where like I love that format. It's such an easy and fun thing to go and do. It's novel each time. But sitting and listening to music for an hour like isn't everyone's jam. But what could be is sort of more like a variety show where you you show up. And they're going to be three talks. Maybe one is like a comedian. One is like a scientist.

So one idea in this doc is so far sounds for talks where like I love that format. It's such an easy and fun thing to go and do. It's novel each time. But sitting and listening to music for an hour like isn't everyone's jam. But what could be is sort of more like a variety show where you you show up. And they're going to be three talks. Maybe one is like a comedian. One is like a scientist.

And you just and that's that's the format. And that's the that's the in-person event empire.

And you just and that's that's the format. And that's the that's the in-person event empire.

No one was set up for remote and engineers were like asked to be like updating like spreadsheets and JIRAs. It was insanity. And we're like, wait, should we just solve a problem that we have faced ourselves instead of any of these ideas?

No one was set up for remote and engineers were like asked to be like updating like spreadsheets and JIRAs. It was insanity. And we're like, wait, should we just solve a problem that we have faced ourselves instead of any of these ideas?

I think it's more generalized. People want to be entertained. And so like, It's so far sounds for your entertainment and you know that the quality bar is going to be good. I think that the hard part is not choosing a category. The hard part is the brand where my co-founder says this like so eloquently and I'm going to butcher this, but his philosophy is,

I think it's more generalized. People want to be entertained. And so like, It's so far sounds for your entertainment and you know that the quality bar is going to be good. I think that the hard part is not choosing a category. The hard part is the brand where my co-founder says this like so eloquently and I'm going to butcher this, but his philosophy is,

which I think is so right, is that moats are dead and brand is the only moat. It's like, we used to all talk about network effects and like, you know, build something like Twitter. But if you think about all the software tools you use right now, there's not really a network effect. There's not really a network effect for Notion.

which I think is so right, is that moats are dead and brand is the only moat. It's like, we used to all talk about network effects and like, you know, build something like Twitter. But if you think about all the software tools you use right now, there's not really a network effect. There's not really a network effect for Notion.

Like maybe there's like, like we can come up with some, but why did you choose Notion? It's because the brand is just so strong. like basically the strategy for startups right now is to be Coca-Cola. It's like, why do you drink Coca-Cola? Not because of any like, like lock-in or anything. It's because it's Coca-Cola. And so the, why do you show up to a SoFar sounds with the first date?

Like maybe there's like, like we can come up with some, but why did you choose Notion? It's because the brand is just so strong. like basically the strategy for startups right now is to be Coca-Cola. It's like, why do you drink Coca-Cola? Not because of any like, like lock-in or anything. It's because it's Coca-Cola. And so the, why do you show up to a SoFar sounds with the first date?

It's because, you know, it's going to be a high quality hour of your life. And so I think the hard part is to establish that trust and to maintain it.

It's because, you know, it's going to be a high quality hour of your life. And so I think the hard part is to establish that trust and to maintain it.

I agree. You know, Peter Thiel says like the best way to compete is to not compete. And I think that brand is the best way you can do that, where if you occupy enough mental space for a category, no one is searching for an alternative. When we started Jam, we didn't search for what's the best knowledge base. We just use Notion because their brand is so strong.

I agree. You know, Peter Thiel says like the best way to compete is to not compete. And I think that brand is the best way you can do that, where if you occupy enough mental space for a category, no one is searching for an alternative. When we started Jam, we didn't search for what's the best knowledge base. We just use Notion because their brand is so strong.

And I've got to tell you, I am so happy we did because the thing that I did not appreciate on day one of being a founder is that if this goes to plan, this is actually probably the next 10, 15 years of your life.

And I've got to tell you, I am so happy we did because the thing that I did not appreciate on day one of being a founder is that if this goes to plan, this is actually probably the next 10, 15 years of your life.

I think that brand is the best mode out there this year. 100%. The thing really to end on is to say that there are things that I did not appreciate on day one of starting a startup about choosing your idea that I really wish that I had known on day one or we sort of lucked into, but I think are helpful for people who are on day one of choosing what to work on. The first thing is that if

I think that brand is the best mode out there this year. 100%. The thing really to end on is to say that there are things that I did not appreciate on day one of starting a startup about choosing your idea that I really wish that I had known on day one or we sort of lucked into, but I think are helpful for people who are on day one of choosing what to work on. The first thing is that if

if the startup goes to plan, like if all your dreams come true, this is probably like 10 to 20 years of your life, which is really a lot. Like when we started Jam when I was 26, this is probably gonna be all my 30s. And so that's very exciting, but it's only exciting if you love what you do.

if the startup goes to plan, like if all your dreams come true, this is probably like 10 to 20 years of your life, which is really a lot. Like when we started Jam when I was 26, this is probably gonna be all my 30s. And so that's very exciting, but it's only exciting if you love what you do.

And the thing that I didn't realize on day one is that it's A, has to be exciting enough that you're gonna say no to a lot of other opportunities that come your way. But B, it is going to be like, you are going... to think and talk about your company all the time. Because it's not just at work. It's you go see your family and your family's like, how's the business doing?

And the thing that I didn't realize on day one is that it's A, has to be exciting enough that you're gonna say no to a lot of other opportunities that come your way. But B, it is going to be like, you are going... to think and talk about your company all the time. Because it's not just at work. It's you go see your family and your family's like, how's the business doing?

And you go see your friends and they're like, how's the startup? And you meet people at parties and they're like, what are you working on? And then they have follow-up questions. So you are in that space all the time. And so you better find the thing fascinating enough to talk about it for 10 years straight. The second is

And you go see your friends and they're like, how's the startup? And you meet people at parties and they're like, what are you working on? And then they have follow-up questions. So you are in that space all the time. And so you better find the thing fascinating enough to talk about it for 10 years straight. The second is

once the thing starts working, then you have this question of like, okay, well, great. Like now, how do we like a thousand X this thing? And you kind of want to know on day one that there is a path to that.

once the thing starts working, then you have this question of like, okay, well, great. Like now, how do we like a thousand X this thing? And you kind of want to know on day one that there is a path to that.

You don't have to know what the exact path is, but just having like, people call this like an idea maze, but just having like, here's what needs to happen to make this so worthwhile to spend a ton of time on is really helpful. And the last thing is that

You don't have to know what the exact path is, but just having like, people call this like an idea maze, but just having like, here's what needs to happen to make this so worthwhile to spend a ton of time on is really helpful. And the last thing is that

The type of business you start dictates how you will spend your time and who you will talk to and what you will wear and what your life will be like. So we started a business targeting developers. I get to spend all day, every day talking to developers. It is awesome. I love it.

The type of business you start dictates how you will spend your time and who you will talk to and what you will wear and what your life will be like. So we started a business targeting developers. I get to spend all day, every day talking to developers. It is awesome. I love it.

And so to work on something that I love the user of because I've been that person and that like I resonate with the problem, like I feel like we dodged a bullet, but now we've got a lot of ideas to share with the people listening to you.

And so to work on something that I love the user of because I've been that person and that like I resonate with the problem, like I feel like we dodged a bullet, but now we've got a lot of ideas to share with the people listening to you.

But if we had started something where I have to wear a suit all the time or I have to travel a ton or like there are just a lot of different types of businesses to start. And you should choose one that fits your personality because it should be energizing in your day rather than very detracting.

But if we had started something where I have to wear a suit all the time or I have to travel a ton or like there are just a lot of different types of businesses to start. And you should choose one that fits your personality because it should be energizing in your day rather than very detracting.

Okay. You're right. It's true. But something that I underappreciated on the first day of Jam is I used to be a product manager and I sort of thought all about product. And I was like, the hard part of building this is building the product. But building the product is like, now you can just even get started.

Okay. You're right. It's true. But something that I underappreciated on the first day of Jam is I used to be a product manager and I sort of thought all about product. And I was like, the hard part of building this is building the product. But building the product is like, now you can just even get started.

And the rest of the journey is you're creating a movement that helps people improve their lives in a particular way. And just social change takes time and behavior change takes time. and the environment changes around you. And so you're just, you're like, if it's not something where people are going to search for this tool and it's going to be the top search result and SEO always.

And the rest of the journey is you're creating a movement that helps people improve their lives in a particular way. And just social change takes time and behavior change takes time. and the environment changes around you. And so you're just, you're like, if it's not something where people are going to search for this tool and it's going to be the top search result and SEO always.

And that like, if the distribution doesn't come naturally, you're, you're embarking on a very long journey and a lot longer than I sort of appreciated.

And that like, if the distribution doesn't come naturally, you're, you're embarking on a very long journey and a lot longer than I sort of appreciated.

Yeah, I think that's right.

Yeah, I think that's right.

I'm dying to know.

I'm dying to know.

Not that I know of, but it's, maybe.

Not that I know of, but it's, maybe.

Not because of any like, like lock-in or anything. It's because it's Coca-Cola. I think that brand is the best moat out there this year.

Not because of any like, like lock-in or anything. It's because it's Coca-Cola. I think that brand is the best moat out there this year.

Wow. That's an amazing story. And like, what a like warm and like beautiful thing to do.

Wow. That's an amazing story. And like, what a like warm and like beautiful thing to do.

Well, first, I'll give you for the first time the full 141 idea notion to share. And if people are starting companies, our first pitch deck, if they're raising VC is still online, it's at deck.jam.dev. So that's if anyone out there is starting something, if that's helpful to you. But I'm Danny at jam.dev.

Well, first, I'll give you for the first time the full 141 idea notion to share. And if people are starting companies, our first pitch deck, if they're raising VC is still online, it's at deck.jam.dev. So that's if anyone out there is starting something, if that's helpful to you. But I'm Danny at jam.dev.

If you are using the product and you have feature requests or suggestions or just thoughts, reach out. I love chatting with our users.

If you are using the product and you have feature requests or suggestions or just thoughts, reach out. I love chatting with our users.

Yeah, when we started the company, I used to be a VC. And I just thought it's so unfair that I've gotten to see other founders pitch. And when you're starting a company, the quality of your pitch deck matters. And so how can we just like, here's what ours is so other people who've never seen one can create their own.

Yeah, when we started the company, I used to be a VC. And I just thought it's so unfair that I've gotten to see other founders pitch. And when you're starting a company, the quality of your pitch deck matters. And so how can we just like, here's what ours is so other people who've never seen one can create their own.

Okay, idea one. K-pop style factories for... Particular talent. When you're building a startup, there are certain unicorn hires you just have to make. But every single startup has to make the same unicorn hires. Like here's an example. When a startup hires their first growth marketer, that's a specialized hire. It is a hard hire to find.

Okay, idea one. K-pop style factories for... Particular talent. When you're building a startup, there are certain unicorn hires you just have to make. But every single startup has to make the same unicorn hires. Like here's an example. When a startup hires their first growth marketer, that's a specialized hire. It is a hard hire to find.

Thanks so much for having me, Greg.

Thanks so much for having me, Greg.

Like our first marketer, we spent eight months searching, like really searching. But that's a set of skills and you can teach it. And so you could imagine a world in which there's a K-pop style factory where they are churning out the first growth marketer for startups.

Like our first marketer, we spent eight months searching, like really searching. But that's a set of skills and you can teach it. And so you could imagine a world in which there's a K-pop style factory where they are churning out the first growth marketer for startups.

And people will pay a lot and they'll pay to not have to spend any much searching and to have the person start the next day when honestly they needed someone yesterday and didn't start hiring soon enough.

And people will pay a lot and they'll pay to not have to spend any much searching and to have the person start the next day when honestly they needed someone yesterday and didn't start hiring soon enough.

I'm here to tell you that I love bootcamps. I think coding bootcamps have changed so many people's lives. I think they are one of the best things that's happened in education in the last 10 years. But this flips it on its head. The code bootcamp route is... Take people, make them junior developers at a generalized big company. This is the opposite of that.

I'm here to tell you that I love bootcamps. I think coding bootcamps have changed so many people's lives. I think they are one of the best things that's happened in education in the last 10 years. But this flips it on its head. The code bootcamp route is... Take people, make them junior developers at a generalized big company. This is the opposite of that.

It's take people, make them extremely senior, very fast, extremely specialized for a high paying, like extremely focused type of job. So growth marketer is one. Here's another type of job that you could do this sort of like K-pop factory for. which is a dev evangelist. When a startup needs their first dev evangelist, that person is like a superstar hire.

It's take people, make them extremely senior, very fast, extremely specialized for a high paying, like extremely focused type of job. So growth marketer is one. Here's another type of job that you could do this sort of like K-pop factory for. which is a dev evangelist. When a startup needs their first dev evangelist, that person is like a superstar hire.

I mean, they have star power, they're building, they're great at speaking. That person is so hard to find. And the only people out there that you can see doing it are the ones who are already doing it. And you don't just need someone who can do it, you need someone who's going to be the first. And so instead of me as a founder, any founder out there,

I mean, they have star power, they're building, they're great at speaking. That person is so hard to find. And the only people out there that you can see doing it are the ones who are already doing it. And you don't just need someone who can do it, you need someone who's going to be the first. And so instead of me as a founder, any founder out there,

hiring a recruiter, trolling through LinkedIn and Twitter and trying to interview like hundreds of people for this one super specialized role. Why shouldn't there just be like the factory that turns out the best people at this? Low acceptance rate, but they like make them amazing.

hiring a recruiter, trolling through LinkedIn and Twitter and trying to interview like hundreds of people for this one super specialized role. Why shouldn't there just be like the factory that turns out the best people at this? Low acceptance rate, but they like make them amazing.

Totally. Yes.

Totally. Yes.

Totally. And there's no competition out there because here's what happens today. Like startup founder goes to a recruiter and says, I'm looking for this person. And the recruiter tells them, that's kind of a unicorn. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I know. I'm in the business of hiring unicorns.

Totally. And there's no competition out there because here's what happens today. Like startup founder goes to a recruiter and says, I'm looking for this person. And the recruiter tells them, that's kind of a unicorn. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I know. I'm in the business of hiring unicorns.

And the recruiter says like, okay, but that doesn't really work with my model because my model is I do a bunch of work. And then if I happen to succeed, then you pay me commission. And so they're nervous to do a ton of upfront effort for a search that they don't have a ton of history of doing.

And the recruiter says like, okay, but that doesn't really work with my model because my model is I do a bunch of work. And then if I happen to succeed, then you pay me commission. And so they're nervous to do a ton of upfront effort for a search that they don't have a ton of history of doing.

They don't have the network for, will take a ton of calls to like sift through candidates and they may not even find the person. So this is like the opposite of that. It's like you tailor make people for these positions. And the reason why I think this is so impactful for the world is because it makes it easier to start companies and build like impactful businesses.

They don't have the network for, will take a ton of calls to like sift through candidates and they may not even find the person. So this is like the opposite of that. It's like you tailor make people for these positions. And the reason why I think this is so impactful for the world is because it makes it easier to start companies and build like impactful businesses.

And like, that's the way a lot of things in the future will advance is like, through companies building new things. But the other reason is there are a lot of people out there who need to change their life and want to change their life, but they're just not going to become junior developers because their set of skills is different. Like the thing that they can contribute to the world is different.

And like, that's the way a lot of things in the future will advance is like, through companies building new things. But the other reason is there are a lot of people out there who need to change their life and want to change their life, but they're just not going to become junior developers because their set of skills is different. Like the thing that they can contribute to the world is different.

And so having multiple paths for someone to change their life and impact the world positively is a really, really great thing for everyone.

And so having multiple paths for someone to change their life and impact the world positively is a really, really great thing for everyone.

Yes. So you've heard like first. Well, you you are the you are the champion of this. It's like first time founders like over focus on product and second time founders know to focus on distribution. I think that that product here is not the hard part. It's the distribution because you both have to build trust in your quality, but also you need to find people at the right moment. to sell this.

Yes. So you've heard like first. Well, you you are the you are the champion of this. It's like first time founders like over focus on product and second time founders know to focus on distribution. I think that that product here is not the hard part. It's the distribution because you both have to build trust in your quality, but also you need to find people at the right moment. to sell this.

And so I think the first thing you do is you just start by building your own distribution, your own platform. And you do the things that like you, Greg have been doing, which is like, start the podcast, start the newsletter, tweet every day and like build trust as the person who gets what this role is.

And so I think the first thing you do is you just start by building your own distribution, your own platform. And you do the things that like you, Greg have been doing, which is like, start the podcast, start the newsletter, tweet every day and like build trust as the person who gets what this role is.

Oh, it's so good.

Oh, it's so good.

I have a counterpoint to this.

I have a counterpoint to this.

I believe that that would work, but I wonder if it still works well in like 2025. And the reason for that is I think people are moving away from trusting anonymous accounts to trusting people. And here's an example of that. We're hiring right now a role that I wish there was a K-pop factory for, because we're going to spend the next 10 months searching for this like unicorn person.

I believe that that would work, but I wonder if it still works well in like 2025. And the reason for that is I think people are moving away from trusting anonymous accounts to trusting people. And here's an example of that. We're hiring right now a role that I wish there was a K-pop factory for, because we're going to spend the next 10 months searching for this like unicorn person.

And this is a designer to lead a growth team. It's just such a specialized role. And you need someone very, very senior who's super thoughtful and like It's a hard job to hire for. So there is a website called Growth Design that has a ton of these case studies and the case studies are so awesome. It's a great website. I've spent hours on this website. Also, there is this woman, Kate Syuma.

And this is a designer to lead a growth team. It's just such a specialized role. And you need someone very, very senior who's super thoughtful and like It's a hard job to hire for. So there is a website called Growth Design that has a ton of these case studies and the case studies are so awesome. It's a great website. I've spent hours on this website. Also, there is this woman, Kate Syuma.

She was an early growth designer at Miro. She's since left and started a consultancy, but she's like started a podcast and newsletter and she like writes on LinkedIn a lot. When I was looking for this person originally, I didn't reach out to the growth design team to find a hire. I reached out to her to see if she knows anyone.

She was an early growth designer at Miro. She's since left and started a consultancy, but she's like started a podcast and newsletter and she like writes on LinkedIn a lot. When I was looking for this person originally, I didn't reach out to the growth design team to find a hire. I reached out to her to see if she knows anyone.

And so there's something about people that might be better at getting just inbound interest.

And so there's something about people that might be better at getting just inbound interest.

So my co-founder and I met when we were product managers at Cloudflare and we loved working together so much so that After I left Cloudflare, we did like a hackathon weekend trip to Colorado. We got like a cabin in the woods and we like hacked on startup ideas. And we just knew we were going to start something together. We just didn't know what.

So my co-founder and I met when we were product managers at Cloudflare and we loved working together so much so that After I left Cloudflare, we did like a hackathon weekend trip to Colorado. We got like a cabin in the woods and we like hacked on startup ideas. And we just knew we were going to start something together. We just didn't know what.

Okay, here's another one. Before a startup is ready, actually, let me start with the title, which is like Bounty Program for Dev Evangelism. Before a startup is ready for the first dev evangelist hire, they need to write docs. They need to write starters, like tutorials. They need to create like starter GitHub repos, videos.

Okay, here's another one. Before a startup is ready, actually, let me start with the title, which is like Bounty Program for Dev Evangelism. Before a startup is ready for the first dev evangelist hire, they need to write docs. They need to write starters, like tutorials. They need to create like starter GitHub repos, videos.

There's a ton of dev evangelism that needs to happen even before you have the capacity for a full-time hire. And it usually falls on the founder who has a lot of other stuff they are doing. And at that moment would be very happy to pay someone to do like a 95% good job on the basic stuff that they need to get started.

There's a ton of dev evangelism that needs to happen even before you have the capacity for a full-time hire. And it usually falls on the founder who has a lot of other stuff they are doing. And at that moment would be very happy to pay someone to do like a 95% good job on the basic stuff that they need to get started.

You could imagine a bounty program where junior developers all over the world are like, oh, great, this startup needs a getting started tutorial. This startup needs how to use their tool with Zapier. And just one by one is able to contribute.

You could imagine a bounty program where junior developers all over the world are like, oh, great, this startup needs a getting started tutorial. This startup needs how to use their tool with Zapier. And just one by one is able to contribute.

Fiverr?

Fiverr?

Yeah, I think that's right. I think that the hard part about this is, as a founder, honestly, I'd pay a lot for good quality work, but I wouldn't pay a lot for bad quality work that we'd have to redo. Right.

Yeah, I think that's right. I think that the hard part about this is, as a founder, honestly, I'd pay a lot for good quality work, but I wouldn't pay a lot for bad quality work that we'd have to redo. Right.

And so the benefit of a dedicated marketplace for this over a Fiverr is that the reviews can be tailor made to the platform and they can just have a really high bar the way that like Uber has a high bar for drivers or Airbnb for places.

And so the benefit of a dedicated marketplace for this over a Fiverr is that the reviews can be tailor made to the platform and they can just have a really high bar the way that like Uber has a high bar for drivers or Airbnb for places.

I think this is. a cash flow profitable business. And I think it gets even more profitable over time, just given the decline of the cost of producing software. Right now, you may even need to hire a developer to build the platform and all the features. But pretty soon, if you've seen Vercel's v0.dev, it will design and build it for you. Just fast forward a few years.

I think this is. a cash flow profitable business. And I think it gets even more profitable over time, just given the decline of the cost of producing software. Right now, you may even need to hire a developer to build the platform and all the features. But pretty soon, if you've seen Vercel's v0.dev, it will design and build it for you. Just fast forward a few years.

And so then it's like, okay, you're one person, you can run this thing.

And so then it's like, okay, you're one person, you can run this thing.

Well, it is pure magic. And what it is, is it's AI that builds the website for you. So you say what website you're looking for and it will generate it the full thing.

Well, it is pure magic. And what it is, is it's AI that builds the website for you. So you say what website you're looking for and it will generate it the full thing.

It's so awesome because it's such a preview of how the future will be. Like today, if you need some sort of service, you have like a whole company to create that service. Like how many engineers work at Yelp? But in the future, there will be some sort of public database of things. And then when you want the service, it can just be automatically generated for you in that time.

It's so awesome because it's such a preview of how the future will be. Like today, if you need some sort of service, you have like a whole company to create that service. Like how many engineers work at Yelp? But in the future, there will be some sort of public database of things. And then when you want the service, it can just be automatically generated for you in that time.

And so what does any enterprising, you know, mid-20s person do when they know they're going to start something is they create a notion of ideas. And we filled it with all sorts of ideas we had over the course of like a couple weeks. And there are now 141 ideas in this notion. And we got super lucky because here's what happened.

And so what does any enterprising, you know, mid-20s person do when they know they're going to start something is they create a notion of ideas. And we filled it with all sorts of ideas we had over the course of like a couple weeks. And there are now 141 ideas in this notion. And we got super lucky because here's what happened.

And like, that's not five years out, but maybe it's a hundred years out or 50 years out. I don't know. But like when I see vZero, I'm like, oh, cool. The future is arriving soon.

And like, that's not five years out, but maybe it's a hundred years out or 50 years out. I don't know. But like when I see vZero, I'm like, oh, cool. The future is arriving soon.

Moats are dead and brand is the only moat. You know, Peter Thiel says like the best way to compete is to not compete. And I think that brand is the best way you can do that. Where if you occupy enough mental space for a category, no one is searching for an alternative. Like basically the strategy for startups right now is to be Coca-Cola. It's like, why do you drink Coca-Cola?

Let millennials invest in VC funds. What you would do is you'd create a shadow LP that becomes an LP in all these funds and then allows the general public to be a part of that LP. So like what it would broaden access to is like you as a 25 year old could buy a hundred dollars of A16Zs, you know, fund, whatever, whether or not the VCs will enjoy that TBD, but do people want it? A hundred percent.

Yes, yeah. This is, for the record, an idea that won't work. And it won't, like, and there are more reasons than that that it won't work. It's like, also, they love not having to share their fund, like, returns with the general public. And this would change that. Like, it's like, for all the reasons this won't work. This is sort of an idea kind of like, allow Harvard to accept more students.

And it's like, that's not really what they do. Yeah.

Totally. At the time that we wrote this Notion doc, a company had just launched called Otis, which was the Skillshare founder launching a new financial startup. And it allowed, like, I guess it's targeted for young people, but allowed anyone to invest in like alternative assets like art and sneakers and just own a part of culture. And when I saw that, I was like, that's super inspiring.

What else do millennials want to be a part of? And I was like, A16C.

We had like a call scheduled to go through our notion and pick what startup to start. And before we could even open this doc, we just started gossiping about our old team and talking about this crazy like PM engineer process. that was happening right now in the team. It was like, it was early COVID.

Yeah. At the time, so this one is, okay, the one more theme that I got very interested in at the time was these in-person events. And I think that now is the time to start in-person things because we're all so, we all realize just how precious they are, but they're all really hard to start because the quality bar for what you'll attend a second time that's in-person is just super high.

And so there is an amazing company called Sofar Sounds. Are you familiar?

They are concerts in people's homes. But the thing that they just got right is they got the formula that you can trust and you don't know what you're going to get until you show up. So you know it's going to be 60 minutes, three bands play, like 10 minutes each, but like breaks in the middle. So you show up and then you know that they've curated the quality.

So one idea in this doc is so far sounds for talks where like I love that format. It's such an easy and fun thing to go and do. It's novel each time. But sitting and listening to music for an hour like isn't everyone's jam. But what could be is sort of more like a variety show where you you show up. And they're going to be three talks. Maybe one is like a comedian. One is like a scientist.

And you just and that's that's the format. And that's the that's the in-person event empire.

No one was set up for remote and engineers were like asked to be like updating like spreadsheets and JIRAs. It was insanity. And we're like, wait, should we just solve a problem that we have faced ourselves instead of any of these ideas?

I think it's more generalized. People want to be entertained. And so like, It's so far sounds for your entertainment and you know that the quality bar is going to be good. I think that the hard part is not choosing a category. The hard part is the brand where my co-founder says this like so eloquently and I'm going to butcher this, but his philosophy is,

which I think is so right, is that moats are dead and brand is the only moat. It's like, we used to all talk about network effects and like, you know, build something like Twitter. But if you think about all the software tools you use right now, there's not really a network effect. There's not really a network effect for Notion.

Like maybe there's like, like we can come up with some, but why did you choose Notion? It's because the brand is just so strong. like basically the strategy for startups right now is to be Coca-Cola. It's like, why do you drink Coca-Cola? Not because of any like, like lock-in or anything. It's because it's Coca-Cola. And so the, why do you show up to a SoFar sounds with the first date?

It's because, you know, it's going to be a high quality hour of your life. And so I think the hard part is to establish that trust and to maintain it.

I agree. You know, Peter Thiel says like the best way to compete is to not compete. And I think that brand is the best way you can do that, where if you occupy enough mental space for a category, no one is searching for an alternative. When we started Jam, we didn't search for what's the best knowledge base. We just use Notion because their brand is so strong.

And I've got to tell you, I am so happy we did because the thing that I did not appreciate on day one of being a founder is that if this goes to plan, this is actually probably the next 10, 15 years of your life.

I think that brand is the best mode out there this year. 100%. The thing really to end on is to say that there are things that I did not appreciate on day one of starting a startup about choosing your idea that I really wish that I had known on day one or we sort of lucked into, but I think are helpful for people who are on day one of choosing what to work on. The first thing is that if

if the startup goes to plan, like if all your dreams come true, this is probably like 10 to 20 years of your life, which is really a lot. Like when we started Jam when I was 26, this is probably gonna be all my 30s. And so that's very exciting, but it's only exciting if you love what you do.

And the thing that I didn't realize on day one is that it's A, has to be exciting enough that you're gonna say no to a lot of other opportunities that come your way. But B, it is going to be like, you are going... to think and talk about your company all the time. Because it's not just at work. It's you go see your family and your family's like, how's the business doing?

And you go see your friends and they're like, how's the startup? And you meet people at parties and they're like, what are you working on? And then they have follow-up questions. So you are in that space all the time. And so you better find the thing fascinating enough to talk about it for 10 years straight. The second is

once the thing starts working, then you have this question of like, okay, well, great. Like now, how do we like a thousand X this thing? And you kind of want to know on day one that there is a path to that.

You don't have to know what the exact path is, but just having like, people call this like an idea maze, but just having like, here's what needs to happen to make this so worthwhile to spend a ton of time on is really helpful. And the last thing is that

The type of business you start dictates how you will spend your time and who you will talk to and what you will wear and what your life will be like. So we started a business targeting developers. I get to spend all day, every day talking to developers. It is awesome. I love it.

And so to work on something that I love the user of because I've been that person and that like I resonate with the problem, like I feel like we dodged a bullet, but now we've got a lot of ideas to share with the people listening to you.

But if we had started something where I have to wear a suit all the time or I have to travel a ton or like there are just a lot of different types of businesses to start. And you should choose one that fits your personality because it should be energizing in your day rather than very detracting.

Okay. You're right. It's true. But something that I underappreciated on the first day of Jam is I used to be a product manager and I sort of thought all about product. And I was like, the hard part of building this is building the product. But building the product is like, now you can just even get started.

And the rest of the journey is you're creating a movement that helps people improve their lives in a particular way. And just social change takes time and behavior change takes time. and the environment changes around you. And so you're just, you're like, if it's not something where people are going to search for this tool and it's going to be the top search result and SEO always.

And that like, if the distribution doesn't come naturally, you're, you're embarking on a very long journey and a lot longer than I sort of appreciated.

Yeah, I think that's right.

I'm dying to know.

Not that I know of, but it's, maybe.

Not because of any like, like lock-in or anything. It's because it's Coca-Cola. I think that brand is the best moat out there this year.

Wow. That's an amazing story. And like, what a like warm and like beautiful thing to do.

Well, first, I'll give you for the first time the full 141 idea notion to share. And if people are starting companies, our first pitch deck, if they're raising VC is still online, it's at deck.jam.dev. So that's if anyone out there is starting something, if that's helpful to you. But I'm Danny at jam.dev.

If you are using the product and you have feature requests or suggestions or just thoughts, reach out. I love chatting with our users.

Yeah, when we started the company, I used to be a VC. And I just thought it's so unfair that I've gotten to see other founders pitch. And when you're starting a company, the quality of your pitch deck matters. And so how can we just like, here's what ours is so other people who've never seen one can create their own.

Okay, idea one. K-pop style factories for... Particular talent. When you're building a startup, there are certain unicorn hires you just have to make. But every single startup has to make the same unicorn hires. Like here's an example. When a startup hires their first growth marketer, that's a specialized hire. It is a hard hire to find.

Thanks so much for having me, Greg.

Like our first marketer, we spent eight months searching, like really searching. But that's a set of skills and you can teach it. And so you could imagine a world in which there's a K-pop style factory where they are churning out the first growth marketer for startups.

And people will pay a lot and they'll pay to not have to spend any much searching and to have the person start the next day when honestly they needed someone yesterday and didn't start hiring soon enough.

I'm here to tell you that I love bootcamps. I think coding bootcamps have changed so many people's lives. I think they are one of the best things that's happened in education in the last 10 years. But this flips it on its head. The code bootcamp route is... Take people, make them junior developers at a generalized big company. This is the opposite of that.

It's take people, make them extremely senior, very fast, extremely specialized for a high paying, like extremely focused type of job. So growth marketer is one. Here's another type of job that you could do this sort of like K-pop factory for. which is a dev evangelist. When a startup needs their first dev evangelist, that person is like a superstar hire.

I mean, they have star power, they're building, they're great at speaking. That person is so hard to find. And the only people out there that you can see doing it are the ones who are already doing it. And you don't just need someone who can do it, you need someone who's going to be the first. And so instead of me as a founder, any founder out there,

hiring a recruiter, trolling through LinkedIn and Twitter and trying to interview like hundreds of people for this one super specialized role. Why shouldn't there just be like the factory that turns out the best people at this? Low acceptance rate, but they like make them amazing.

Totally. Yes.

Totally. And there's no competition out there because here's what happens today. Like startup founder goes to a recruiter and says, I'm looking for this person. And the recruiter tells them, that's kind of a unicorn. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I know. I'm in the business of hiring unicorns.

And the recruiter says like, okay, but that doesn't really work with my model because my model is I do a bunch of work. And then if I happen to succeed, then you pay me commission. And so they're nervous to do a ton of upfront effort for a search that they don't have a ton of history of doing.

They don't have the network for, will take a ton of calls to like sift through candidates and they may not even find the person. So this is like the opposite of that. It's like you tailor make people for these positions. And the reason why I think this is so impactful for the world is because it makes it easier to start companies and build like impactful businesses.

And like, that's the way a lot of things in the future will advance is like, through companies building new things. But the other reason is there are a lot of people out there who need to change their life and want to change their life, but they're just not going to become junior developers because their set of skills is different. Like the thing that they can contribute to the world is different.

And so having multiple paths for someone to change their life and impact the world positively is a really, really great thing for everyone.

Yes. So you've heard like first. Well, you you are the you are the champion of this. It's like first time founders like over focus on product and second time founders know to focus on distribution. I think that that product here is not the hard part. It's the distribution because you both have to build trust in your quality, but also you need to find people at the right moment. to sell this.

And so I think the first thing you do is you just start by building your own distribution, your own platform. And you do the things that like you, Greg have been doing, which is like, start the podcast, start the newsletter, tweet every day and like build trust as the person who gets what this role is.

Oh, it's so good.

I have a counterpoint to this.

I believe that that would work, but I wonder if it still works well in like 2025. And the reason for that is I think people are moving away from trusting anonymous accounts to trusting people. And here's an example of that. We're hiring right now a role that I wish there was a K-pop factory for, because we're going to spend the next 10 months searching for this like unicorn person.

And this is a designer to lead a growth team. It's just such a specialized role. And you need someone very, very senior who's super thoughtful and like It's a hard job to hire for. So there is a website called Growth Design that has a ton of these case studies and the case studies are so awesome. It's a great website. I've spent hours on this website. Also, there is this woman, Kate Syuma.

She was an early growth designer at Miro. She's since left and started a consultancy, but she's like started a podcast and newsletter and she like writes on LinkedIn a lot. When I was looking for this person originally, I didn't reach out to the growth design team to find a hire. I reached out to her to see if she knows anyone.

And so there's something about people that might be better at getting just inbound interest.

So my co-founder and I met when we were product managers at Cloudflare and we loved working together so much so that After I left Cloudflare, we did like a hackathon weekend trip to Colorado. We got like a cabin in the woods and we like hacked on startup ideas. And we just knew we were going to start something together. We just didn't know what.

Okay, here's another one. Before a startup is ready, actually, let me start with the title, which is like Bounty Program for Dev Evangelism. Before a startup is ready for the first dev evangelist hire, they need to write docs. They need to write starters, like tutorials. They need to create like starter GitHub repos, videos.

There's a ton of dev evangelism that needs to happen even before you have the capacity for a full-time hire. And it usually falls on the founder who has a lot of other stuff they are doing. And at that moment would be very happy to pay someone to do like a 95% good job on the basic stuff that they need to get started.

You could imagine a bounty program where junior developers all over the world are like, oh, great, this startup needs a getting started tutorial. This startup needs how to use their tool with Zapier. And just one by one is able to contribute.

Fiverr?

Yeah, I think that's right. I think that the hard part about this is, as a founder, honestly, I'd pay a lot for good quality work, but I wouldn't pay a lot for bad quality work that we'd have to redo. Right.

And so the benefit of a dedicated marketplace for this over a Fiverr is that the reviews can be tailor made to the platform and they can just have a really high bar the way that like Uber has a high bar for drivers or Airbnb for places.

I think this is. a cash flow profitable business. And I think it gets even more profitable over time, just given the decline of the cost of producing software. Right now, you may even need to hire a developer to build the platform and all the features. But pretty soon, if you've seen Vercel's v0.dev, it will design and build it for you. Just fast forward a few years.

And so then it's like, okay, you're one person, you can run this thing.

Well, it is pure magic. And what it is, is it's AI that builds the website for you. So you say what website you're looking for and it will generate it the full thing.

It's so awesome because it's such a preview of how the future will be. Like today, if you need some sort of service, you have like a whole company to create that service. Like how many engineers work at Yelp? But in the future, there will be some sort of public database of things. And then when you want the service, it can just be automatically generated for you in that time.

And so what does any enterprising, you know, mid-20s person do when they know they're going to start something is they create a notion of ideas. And we filled it with all sorts of ideas we had over the course of like a couple weeks. And there are now 141 ideas in this notion. And we got super lucky because here's what happened.

And like, that's not five years out, but maybe it's a hundred years out or 50 years out. I don't know. But like when I see vZero, I'm like, oh, cool. The future is arriving soon.