Daniel Immerwahr

Yes, they may have interests in Venezuela, but they have an even greater interest in their own sphere of influence and their ability to control it however they like.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and the more that, not just they feel that, but the more that they act on that feeling...

the more they erode the norm in every other way, right?

I mean, because you kind of wanted to think that it's not okay to invade another country.

And if you tried to invade another country, the weight of the whole world would come crashing down on you, probably led by the United States.

So it would just be too dangerous to do that.

It doesn't seem too dangerous to do that anymore.

It seems dangerous, but not too dangerous to do that.

Daniel Limovar, thank you so much.

Thanks so much, David.

Daniel Limavar is a professor in the history department at Northwestern University, and you can read him on Venezuela at newyorker.com, along with reporting from staff writer John Lee Anderson, Dexter Filkins, and many others.

You can also subscribe to The New Yorker at newyorker.com.

Last week, the White House announced it was withdrawing the U.S.

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groups as well, and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

I'm David Remnick, and that's the New Yorker Radio Hour for today.

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