Daniel Yergin

And so I think the relationship, there's been less focus on that, but I think that's one of the lasting questions that come out of this too.

One thing that you don't think about unless it's not there is trust.

And trust has been eroded.

Things have become more transactional.

And yet to solve, really, to deal with global energy issues, you need kind of global cooperation.

That was the very fundamental idea that led to the establishment of the International Energy Agency as a way to coordinate so that you don't have sort of bruising competition among countries.

I think you're absolutely right.

I think it really began, you know, what drove that incredible development of supply chains, so complicated.

I remember looking at one for automobile parts that looked like a bowl of spaghetti, was the fact that it drove down costs.

It was all about efficiency.

And increasingly, security, predictability, reliability, resilience has come to the fore in it.

And I think as you described, that is going to be even more true today.

So spending more money on defense and trying to localize production, build security, and that's inherently adds costs that were not there.

It's reversing a trend that had been decades in the making.

So I think that builds it in.

Well, absolutely.

Certainly, we had a big mining track there and more of that now.

Robots, by the way, are also copper.

Yeah, right.

Which goes back to this whole question about this kind of potential gap in copper supplies that you need for electrification.