Dave Davies

It was based on population.

But there was this huge troubling debate about the slave holding states which wanted their slaves to count as members of their population even though they had no legal rights and no vote.

There was a compromise that resolved this question.

What was Wilson's role in that?

Yeah, well, I think there are clearly a number of cases.

That is one.

Another one is the proportional representation in the Senate where he finally agrees to let each state have equal representation.

We should also note that there were some things he did win.

Like, for example, when the discussion initially began on how Congress would be structured, there was a lot of strong support for having members of Congress selected by state legislatures.

I mean, simply the direct election of members of Congress was a contested issue, right?

Right.

And he would often invoke the phrase in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal.

It doesn't say all states are created equal.

And he brought that up, right?

We need to take another break here.

Let me reintroduce you.

We are speaking with Jesse Wegman.

His new book is The Lost Founder, James Wilson and the Forgotten Fight for a People's Constitution.

He'll be back to talk more after this short break.

I'm Dave Davies, and this is Fresh Air.