Dave Davies

We've invited Levitsky here to explain the threats he sees to democracy and to talk about dramatic developments in the Trump administration's confrontation with Harvard University. Stephen Levitsky is director of the David Rockefeller Center for Latin American Studies at Harvard. He's also senior fellow at the Kettering Foundation and a senior democracy fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Besides the book How Democracies Die, Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt co-authored the 2023 book Tyranny of the Minority. We recorded our interview yesterday. Well, Stephen Levitsky, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thanks for having me.

Besides the book How Democracies Die, Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt co-authored the 2023 book Tyranny of the Minority. We recorded our interview yesterday. Well, Stephen Levitsky, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thanks for having me.

Besides the book How Democracies Die, Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt co-authored the 2023 book Tyranny of the Minority. We recorded our interview yesterday. Well, Stephen Levitsky, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thanks for having me.

You note in this article that Freedom House, which is a nonprofit that's been around for a long time, which produces an annual global freedom index, has reduced the United States rating. It has slipped from 2014 to 2021. How much? Where are we now and where did we used to be?

You note in this article that Freedom House, which is a nonprofit that's been around for a long time, which produces an annual global freedom index, has reduced the United States rating. It has slipped from 2014 to 2021. How much? Where are we now and where did we used to be?

You note in this article that Freedom House, which is a nonprofit that's been around for a long time, which produces an annual global freedom index, has reduced the United States rating. It has slipped from 2014 to 2021. How much? Where are we now and where did we used to be?

And does Freedom House explain its demotion? Why? Why did this happen?

And does Freedom House explain its demotion? Why? Why did this happen?

And does Freedom House explain its demotion? Why? Why did this happen?

So free and fair elections lead us to a leader which takes us in a different direction.

So free and fair elections lead us to a leader which takes us in a different direction.

So free and fair elections lead us to a leader which takes us in a different direction.

It's interesting that you say that no democracy is entirely free of politicization of these tools and that that was the case in the United States in recent decades, true?

It's interesting that you say that no democracy is entirely free of politicization of these tools and that that was the case in the United States in recent decades, true?

It's interesting that you say that no democracy is entirely free of politicization of these tools and that that was the case in the United States in recent decades, true?

You know, it's interesting. I read in some of the recent reporting that in the U.S. criminal code, it is expressly prohibited. It is unlawful for the president or the vice president or any member of their executive staff to directly or indirectly suggest that the IRS audit or investigate a particular taxpayer. Right?

You know, it's interesting. I read in some of the recent reporting that in the U.S. criminal code, it is expressly prohibited. It is unlawful for the president or the vice president or any member of their executive staff to directly or indirectly suggest that the IRS audit or investigate a particular taxpayer. Right?

You know, it's interesting. I read in some of the recent reporting that in the U.S. criminal code, it is expressly prohibited. It is unlawful for the president or the vice president or any member of their executive staff to directly or indirectly suggest that the IRS audit or investigate a particular taxpayer. Right?

You know, it struck me that it's one thing to say you're going to prosecute someone you don't like, but But I wonder if it will actually happen. I mean you do have to find a provision of the federal criminal code that has been violated and make a case to convince a jury, right? This isn't really so easy, is it?