Dave Davies

We haven't talked about Joe McCarthy. His story is better known than some of the others that we've talked about. But he was certainly the shining knight of the anti-communist crusade.

We haven't talked about Joe McCarthy. His story is better known than some of the others that we've talked about. But he was certainly the shining knight of the anti-communist crusade.

A senator from Wisconsin who made many speeches beginning in 1950 claiming to have lists of communists in the State Department or the Defense Department or whatever, but never really seemed to come up with much credible evidence. That run lasted until about 1954 when he was embarrassed in a in a really dramatic Senate hearing and was then censured by his colleagues at the Senate.

A senator from Wisconsin who made many speeches beginning in 1950 claiming to have lists of communists in the State Department or the Defense Department or whatever, but never really seemed to come up with much credible evidence. That run lasted until about 1954 when he was embarrassed in a in a really dramatic Senate hearing and was then censured by his colleagues at the Senate.

A senator from Wisconsin who made many speeches beginning in 1950 claiming to have lists of communists in the State Department or the Defense Department or whatever, but never really seemed to come up with much credible evidence. That run lasted until about 1954 when he was embarrassed in a in a really dramatic Senate hearing and was then censured by his colleagues at the Senate.

It struck me when I read, particularly the way he interacted with Republicans, that this in some ways reminds me of Donald Trump, not completely, but the firing from the hip with accusations that he couldn't prove and the fact that Republicans, a lot of Republicans in Congress didn't particularly respect him, didn't think he was credible, but wouldn't challenge him, right?

It struck me when I read, particularly the way he interacted with Republicans, that this in some ways reminds me of Donald Trump, not completely, but the firing from the hip with accusations that he couldn't prove and the fact that Republicans, a lot of Republicans in Congress didn't particularly respect him, didn't think he was credible, but wouldn't challenge him, right?

It struck me when I read, particularly the way he interacted with Republicans, that this in some ways reminds me of Donald Trump, not completely, but the firing from the hip with accusations that he couldn't prove and the fact that Republicans, a lot of Republicans in Congress didn't particularly respect him, didn't think he was credible, but wouldn't challenge him, right?

It was also striking that there would be hearings in which – in some cases, the chair of the hearings thought, OK, we're going to get McCarthy on the record here and prove that he doesn't know what he's talking about. So he would make some charges and then witnesses would come in who would completely debunk the charges that he had made.

It was also striking that there would be hearings in which – in some cases, the chair of the hearings thought, OK, we're going to get McCarthy on the record here and prove that he doesn't know what he's talking about. So he would make some charges and then witnesses would come in who would completely debunk the charges that he had made.

It was also striking that there would be hearings in which – in some cases, the chair of the hearings thought, OK, we're going to get McCarthy on the record here and prove that he doesn't know what he's talking about. So he would make some charges and then witnesses would come in who would completely debunk the charges that he had made.

But by then, he'd opened up the fire on somebody else and had two or three more new charges. And somehow just kept it rolling and the media – I mean he knew how to play the media. They would always report a new charge because, oh my heavens, if this official really is a subversive, we don't want to miss that story. He really manipulated the media pretty effectively, didn't he?

But by then, he'd opened up the fire on somebody else and had two or three more new charges. And somehow just kept it rolling and the media – I mean he knew how to play the media. They would always report a new charge because, oh my heavens, if this official really is a subversive, we don't want to miss that story. He really manipulated the media pretty effectively, didn't he?

But by then, he'd opened up the fire on somebody else and had two or three more new charges. And somehow just kept it rolling and the media – I mean he knew how to play the media. They would always report a new charge because, oh my heavens, if this official really is a subversive, we don't want to miss that story. He really manipulated the media pretty effectively, didn't he?

Let's take another break here. We are speaking with Clay Risen. He is a reporter and editor for The New York Times. His book is Red Scare, Blacklists, McCarthyism, and the Making of Modern America. We'll continue our conversation after this break. This is Fresh Air. You know, it's a fascinating story that you tell here. And it did kind of have an end, right? It lasted about a decade, I guess.

Let's take another break here. We are speaking with Clay Risen. He is a reporter and editor for The New York Times. His book is Red Scare, Blacklists, McCarthyism, and the Making of Modern America. We'll continue our conversation after this break. This is Fresh Air. You know, it's a fascinating story that you tell here. And it did kind of have an end, right? It lasted about a decade, I guess.

Let's take another break here. We are speaking with Clay Risen. He is a reporter and editor for The New York Times. His book is Red Scare, Blacklists, McCarthyism, and the Making of Modern America. We'll continue our conversation after this break. This is Fresh Air. You know, it's a fascinating story that you tell here. And it did kind of have an end, right? It lasted about a decade, I guess.

And there are really two things that seemed to help close the door on this frenzy of anti-communism. One was Republican President Dwight Eisenhower. What did he do?

And there are really two things that seemed to help close the door on this frenzy of anti-communism. One was Republican President Dwight Eisenhower. What did he do?

And there are really two things that seemed to help close the door on this frenzy of anti-communism. One was Republican President Dwight Eisenhower. What did he do?