Dave Davies

In your book, when you describe the growth of these apocalyptic interpretations of the Bible and the coming tribulations and all of this stuff, that a lot of the people who promoted it made money from doing it and had quite a good little operation going on.

That was before the internet.

Now it's

You have a lot of people who are influencers who the wilder sometimes, the more conspiratorial, the crazier, you know, the more engagement.

Is this sort of the same process?

When there was the assault on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, not long after the Ruby Ridge tragedy, law enforcement there seemed to have no understanding of the apocalyptic views of their adversaries, as they had not with Randy Weaver.

What kind of strategy might a more theologically informed command have used?

Trevor Burrus Yeah, and frustrating for your adversary who is counting on you to overreact, right?

Peter Van Doren Exactly, yeah.

Trevor Burrus After you'd finished this book and were thinking about all of these things, we saw the events in Minnesota where two civilians have been shot and killed by ICE agents.

What came to your mind about what might be learned, might have been learned from Ruby Ridge that might be relevant?

Randy Weaver lived three decades after this.

What did he do with his life?

Well, Chris Jennings, it's been really interesting.

Thank you so much for talking to us.

Chris Jennings' new book is End of Days, Ruby Ridge, the Apocalypse, and the Unmaking of America.

Coming up, Maureen Corrigan reviews Dizzy, Rachel Weaver's memoir about struggling to overcome a mysterious illness.

This is Fresh Air.

Rachel Weaver worked for the Forest Service in Alaska, where she scaled towering trees to study birds of prey and dealt with brown bears in the wild.

But one morning in 2006, Weaver woke up and felt like she was being spun in a hurricane.