Dave Davies

Our guest is Rush Doshi.

He worked on China policy at the National Security Council, now a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

We recorded our interview yesterday.

You know, we haven't talked about human rights at all.

It's probably not going to be talked about much in Beijing either, is it?

You know, there was a story recently in The Economist.

I think it was a cover story and the title was Dysfunctional Duo.

And it said this about the two countries engaged in this summit.

One has a leader who treats allies like patsies and is ripping apart the institutions that underpinned global stability for decades.

The other is an authoritarian regime that bullies its neighbors and is quietly stoking foreign conflicts it could help defuse.

Worse, the two countries treat their mutual entanglements on technology and trade as security risks.

Does that capture your sense of these guys?

Yeah.

And there have been stories saying that some of the middle – so-called middle power, Canada, Brazil, South Korea, India, other countries are looking to make alliances and deals more aggressively because they find the US and China unreliable allies.

Really interesting.

Rush Doshi, thank you so much for speaking with us.

Rush Doshi worked on China policy at the National Security Council.

He's now an assistant professor in Georgetown School of Foreign Service and a senior fellow and director of the China Strategy Initiative at the Council on Foreign Relations.

We recorded our interview Wednesday morning.

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