David Eagleman
speaker
1,631 appearances
7 recordings
5 series
first heard Dec 2024
last heard 20 Mar
David Eagleman’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 3 in all, peaking in Jan 2026 with 2.
Appearances
But in this other moment, I know that letting compassion win out is going to be the optimal thing for my marriage or whatever. Yeah. Okay. So there are these things. But what interests me is that... no matter how integrated a personality we think we have, we're constantly in conflict. I mean, every moment of our lives, we think, oh, should I do this or that? Or we're making decisions, right?
This is what decision-making is about. And so there's a sense in which there's never a stable scenario where we say, okay, look, these guys have figured out how to get along. What I find interesting is ways that we can... put ideas into place like the Ulysses Contract. So are you familiar with Ulysses Contract?
So, okay, just as a, you remember Ulysses Odysseus was coming home from the Trojan War and realized he was going to pass the Island of the Sirens. And he wanted to hear the song of the sirens, but he knew that like any mortal man, he'd crash into the rocks and die. So you remember what he did? He filled his men's ears with beeswax. He had them lash him to the mast.
And he said, no matter what I do, just keep on sailing. Okay. what was happening here was that the Ulysses of sound mind way back here knew that the future Ulysses would behave badly when he passed the island. Yes. He knew that there was no way he wasn't going to behave badly there. So what he did is he made a contract with himself.
He said, I'm going to lash myself to the master that I can't do the wrong thing. Okay, so this is what philosophers call Ulysses' contract. And I'm fascinated by these because we use these in all kinds of ways in our lives.
And actually, one of my next books is about this because I think it's the most practical way when you're in a moment of sober reflection to think about, okay, who do I want to be? And how can I establish a Ulysses contract with myself that I can't break? It's an unbreakable kind of contract. And so I'll just give you an example of this. Why were you driven...
Why were you attracted to the terminology contract? Because it's not something you can break. Because it's not that Ulysses said, okay, tie me to the thing, but leave a little string here that I can pull and let the ropes down or something. It's that he was bound to that mast. He was attached to it and could not get off the mast. Okay, that's the important part. It's like a marriage contract.
Yeah, exactly. But even more, you know, a marriage contract you can break also, but the key with Ulysses' contracts is you really want to make them unbreakable. Here's just a couple examples. For example, in Alcoholics Anonymous, the first thing they have you do is clear all the alcohol out of your house. Because even if somebody feels like, hey, look, I'm done.
I'm not going to drink, but I'll leave those things in case I have a party or whatever. They know that on some, you know, festive Friday night or a lonely Sunday night or something, you might, okay. So you get rid of it so that the temptation can't be there. Or with drug addiction programs, First thing they tell you is, look, don't ever walk around with more than 20 bucks in your pocket.
Because even if you think you're over it, at some point, someone's going to offer you drugs. And if you've got the money, you might spend it. So there's a million ways that we can make these kinds of contracts with ourselves. And the reason it's important is because what we're doing is setting up some kind of higher order ideal. Yeah. And I know you think about this in terms of religion.
I don't know that I agree with the definition. Let me think. Because all the Ulysses contracts that I try to set up in my life, I don't think about them as being religious, although they are… That's why it's a matter of definition.
I think the contract is part of the game, which is to say, gosh, I know I'm going to behave badly in that situation. So as one twist on this game, as a play in this game, I'm going to put something in place so that I can't do it. It forbids it. It forbids it, exactly. It's a way of saying, look, I know I've got all these rivaling networks and I'm not going to get through this.
I know that right now I feel like I'm not going to drink or smoke or whatever somebody's trying to get or die. Okay, so I've never had a drinking or smoking problem, but one thing I do try to prevent is... You know, I'm in a restaurant and let's say it's a predefined meal and they put a dessert down. I want to have a taste of dessert, but I don't want to eat the whole thing, okay?
And what happens is as I'm sitting there talking to everyone, I end up eating the whole thing like an idiot. So what I do is I take a bite or two and then I take the table salt and I cover the thing in salt, the chocolate cake. So that, that's my Lucy's contract because I know that the me of three minutes from now is going to keep sticking my fork in it.
So I'm making a contract with myself that I can't break because now the cake is ruined. And so this is just one play in the game of dealing with these rivals.
Right.
Every game's like that. Right. I guess you could think of it that way. I think of it as just another move in the game of life in a sense, which is to say, you know, I could eat it. It's a rich energy source. It's delicious sugar, whatever. And I've got this other move I can do. I guess I think about it in terms of long-term versus short-term networks in the brain.
And so how do I get those networks? Because, you know, we can image this in fMRI. We see these areas that are involved in long and short-term thinking. So how do I get these guys to play together in the same game, but in a way that aligns with who I want to be? Yeah. with my long-term thinking.
Yes.
What's your aim? That game has to do with health, has to do with keeping slim, has to do with vanity, all of the things that I want to make sure the kind of person I am who doesn't gulp down the entire chocolate cake. Right.
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