David Epstein

And if a director wanted animators to keep working on that penny, he had to start taking popsicle sticks away from like a main character that had to get animated.

And that solved the problem immediately.

But that was an important thing for managers to come up with.

Whereas at General Magic, it was so free flowing that there was sort of no coherence and no useful boundaries.

And I don't think that's...

That's not a kind of freedom that's actually helpful for people.

You want freedom within a framework, not this total freedom where nobody really knows what they should be doing.

Yeah.

I mean, I 100% need deadlines.

When I... I mean, I first...

Two books I turned in end of the day on the day they were due, which for something that you're looking two years ahead to, or my first book three years ahead, is not that easy to do.

And this time around when I signed the contract and my agent said, you know, and always when I sign the contract, I'm like, oh God, will I be able to... Because it's hard to plan to finish something two, three years later.

Totally.

And be on time.

And especially when you don't know what you're going to find yet.

And my agent was like...

you know, the deadlines, of course, in books are flexible.

You don't have to treat it as real.

I'm like, do not tell me that ever again.

Like we have to treat this thing as totally real.