David Epstein

Maybe that sounds onerous, but I think it's not.

Like once you get in the habit, I need to call this person by that date.

I need to block time to just be with my kid without any other distraction.

Because it doesn't happen, right, if you don't schedule it with all the stuff that everybody has to do.

I did, just not to the level you're... You want to push me to the next level.

We're both in the business of trying to make ourselves and other people better.

My definition of greatness is...

raising the level of other people who encounter you or your work.

I think that is a

And I think that goes even for solo performers, right?

There could be a solo performer who's a musician and maybe they're working on their own, but other people that see that get elevated in a way.

Other musicians that see it get elevated and want to do that.

And so I think it's, and with the things we're both doing, I think what we hope is that we're doing something at a certain level, both our messages, but also the way that we're doing it leads people who want to do things like we do to see a certain level of quality and say, you know, I'd like to do that too.

Yeah.

David, thanks for being here, man.

Appreciate your pleasure.

Yeah.

Well, so they have the people who designed the original Mac.

You know, it's...

The company was so visionary.