David Farrier
Appearances
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Symbiotica. Now, I don't know about you, Rob, but I like living a fairly healthy lifestyle. Both of us are terrified of dying, and I figure a good way to live longer is to just be generally healthy. That's what I'm trying to do here.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It is. I feel like this is a draft that I'm not going to play into. But we are two healthy men, and I like to take care of my whole body in a way that makes sense to me. And recently, Symbiotica helps me do just that. I've started taking their Magnesium L3 and 8. It's a daily must-have for supporting my focus and mood.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Their liquid magnesium packets utilize cutting-edge technology to deliver better absorption for better results. It keeps me feeling my absolute best, and the vanilla cream flavor tastes very good. It comes in these little pouches that's very easy to consume. You just like rip the top off, squeeze into your mouth. It tastes delicious.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I genuinely mean that when I say the vanilla cream flavor tastes really good because it really does. Symbiotica helps you maintain healthy habits all year long, no matter what your goals are.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I'm excited to be starting my journey with Symbiotica and I worked out an awesome offer for my listeners so you can try their products too.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I think that's really good. The word's more of a metaphor in this case, but that is a really, really good guess.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Support for Flightless Bird comes from Mint Mobile. I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I want to know where it is. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money as well. That's why you have a wallet that is completely see-through, right, David? Absolutely. It's the exact reason. I never like to steal it away.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I like to see it at all times. After years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up from crazy high wireless bills, which were for me about $80 a month and more. Plus, I got sick of the bogus fees and all the free perks that actually cost more in the long run. So say bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw-dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at just $15 a month, which is a lot better than the $80 I was paying.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
No, there'd be no point. So that is another really good thing. And it is so much cheaper. If you like your money like I do, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash bird. That's mintmobile.com slash bird.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Okay. Speaking of not lovely, flesh, unusual, quiverful. Do you want to learn? Let's do it. Are you ready? Yep. I hadn't heard of the whole Quiverful thing before I'd done my Focus on the Family episode. In that episode, I'd met Zach, a firefighter who'd casually mentioned he was raised in a pretty big family.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Turns out that in Zach's family, that mentality had a name. Quiverful. As in, a full quiver. A quiver being a pouch that an archer puts all their arrows in. Except in this case, it's a metaphor where the arrows are children. If that all sounds a bit weird, it comes from Psalm 127 in the Bible, which says, "...as arrows are in the hand of a mighty man, so are children of the youth.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Well, this is a good throw. Wait, this is a good throw to the episode. Stick around to find out. Is that good? Sure, yeah. I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, one of my favorite things about Americans is the tendency for them to come up with an idea and really run with it.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them." Basically, a man is happy when he has loads of children. That's what Quiverful is all about. And it turns out that Zach's parents, Rick and Jan, had written an entire book espousing the values of the movement.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I immediately jumped online and ordered a copy. First produced in 1989, it was out of print, but I managed to track one down. Family Planning and the Lordship of Christ was the subtitle, and it had a few five-star reviews. This book is for married Christian couples, male and female. It shows why it's important to trust God in everything, said Earl, in all caps.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
This book is direct insight into the plan and design the Bible has created family planning to be, said Mum to Many. It also had a few one-star reviews. This book, while sincere and helpful, is in parts sincerely misguided. These folks, more or less a mouthpiece for the quiverful cult, terrify me. The world needs less children, not more.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
With all that buzzing around in my head, after our Focus on the Family episode had aired, I called Zach back to talk about what it was like to be raised Quiverful style.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
That organization he'd mentioned was the Institute in Basic Life Principles, IBLP, a fundamentalist Christian organization set up by Bill Gothard in 1961, a guy who once claimed that cabbage patch dolls were evil and of Satan. The doc series Happy Shiny People touches on this group and Bill Gothard, but that's a podcast for another day. Not great people.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
IBLP also set up something called the Advanced Training Institute, a homeschooling program for Christian kids. And somewhere in that mix, Zach says his parents got sold on the idea of Quiverful. Am I correct in thinking that Quiverful is taken essentially from a quote in the Bible about having loads of kids?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It doesn't really matter if the idea is good or not. It just depends on their enthusiasm and utter conviction that they are correct. I think we struggle with this a little bit in New Zealand. We lack the confidence and bravado of the American psyche. We like to quietly observe and see what other people say before we say anything ourselves.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Was this a common belief in your neck of the woods, or was your family a real outlier?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
The other big thing with Quiverful was homeschooling your children. This idea that as parents, it was your responsibility and yours alone to teach them about the world.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
The other thing that Quiverfulers loved, or should I say hated, was TV and movies. They were mostly evil.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
These days, Zach is still a Christian, but has very different beliefs to what he was raised in. His kids, all two of them, go to public school, and he trusts the teachers to do a good job at doing what they're trained to do.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
He says it was him and his wife having their own kids that made them realise quiverful definitely wasn't for them, that maybe the idea of leaving it up to God doesn't work for everything.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
but not in america so this week i wanted to look at a very niche thing that americans invented and a small number of people ran with quiverful the quiverful movement basically took a metaphor and went all in in this case having a quiver full of arrows except the arrows are children and the quiver is either a womb or a man who provides the sperm i'm not too sure and
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's weirdly a little unclear who started Quiverful in America. A woman called Nancy Campbell started publishing a magazine called Above Rubies in the late 70s, which really pushed the idea of women staying at home and raising a ton of kids. There was another big book, The Way Home, by Mary Pride, which doubled down on all this. Mary Pride was a big reference point for Zach's parents too.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Basically, be fruitful and multiply was taken very seriously. And there was this underpinning idea that to spread Christianity, the best way to spread it was to spread a load of your own Christian children. How does it work with your parents now? Because obviously they raised you with a certain belief system. They wrote the book on it.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And arguably their kids aren't following their book to the letter, you know. So what do they make of you?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Bombas. Now, what if I told you that the most important part of your spring cleaning routine is your sock drawer?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I have one big drawer. Half of it is for underwear and the other half is for socks. And the socks, I constantly need to clean that shit out because they're getting holes. I'm missing socks. It's a disaster. That's why I'm here to talk to you about Bombas because they make really great socks.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
If you have any mismatched socks or maybe you're missing a sock or two or three, then get some fresh ones from Bombas because they are really, really good socks.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And if you're looking for a nice pair to wear to a wedding, Bombas also does beautiful dress socks that will make you look great in your loafers or your heels or any of your other fancy shoes. And they also just have socks that are good for everyday casual living. I have some ankle high socks from them that I really, really like.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And what I particularly enjoy about these socks is, you know how some socks you wear them and they feel weak? They're like slipping down the leg or they're a bit loose. The elastic holds and it's genuinely incredibly satisfying.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
But the takeaway is that big families are good, a blessing from the big man upstairs, so all family planning should be left to God. Condoms, who needs them? IUDs, no way, not on my watch. Just get married, have sex, and see what happens. I wanted to find out more about Quiverful, where the idea came from, and what it means for those practicing it.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Ooh la la. Yep, Bombas makes all of that stuff as well. And the best part of all of it, for every comfy pair of socks you purchase, Bombas donates another comfy pair to someone facing homelessness. And Bombas is going international. Enjoy worldwide shipping to over 200 countries.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Zach said I could probably call his mum Jan to get her take on all this. Her point of view from the inside. Is there anything you want me to talk to you about that you would be curious about yourself? Like me as a weird conduit?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I've been thinking about what Zach had said, how his parents obviously got so into this thing that they decided to write a whole book about it. And it turns out their way in was kind of underwhelming. They just sort of liked the sound of it.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I have only one sibling and that seemed like a lot for my parents. Um, how do you cope with 10 children? It's a lot of children.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
As to why her and her husband wrote the book and felt the urge to spread the message, that was pretty understated too.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I feel like your kids haven't all embraced the quiver full movement. They don't have, you know, 20 kids each at, you know, at family Christmas, do you sometimes find yourself looking across and getting sort of passing them a copy of the book and say, have you reconsidered this?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
So, throw away those pesky contraceptives and get ready to have loads of kids, because that's what God wants, and because this is the Quiverful episode. Hi, Rob. Hey, David. How are you? Had you heard of quiverful before I said the word quiverful? I feel I've said it about 10 times now. I don't know what quiverful is. Do you use contraceptives in your relationship? Yes.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Now, it goes without saying that there are plenty of people critical of the Quiverful movement, and rightfully so, in my opinion. Jan seems aware of this.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Today, the quiverful movement isn't exactly a big thing in American society, but I'd argue that its ideas are, mainly ideas about breeding. Now, bear with me here. There's a chapter in a full quiver that has the title, Fruitfulness and Victory, and I just wanted to read a bit of that. It lays out a scenario.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
If there are, say, 8 billion Christian couples of childbearing age in the United States and they each have six children, that means that in 20 to 30 years those 16 million folks will have had around 48 million children. Add to that the parents and we have 64 million people.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
If 90% of those 48 million children get married and the resulting 22 million couples have six children, we arrive at a staggering 132 million children. which, when added to the previous generation and some before, equals around 200 million in 40 to 80 years. It goes on with one more bit.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
With the nation's low birth rate, the high divorce rate, and an unmarrying and anti-child viewpoint, and a debauched nation perhaps unable to slow down the spread of AIDS, we can begin to see what happens politically. A half-billion-person boycott of a company which violated God's standards would be very effective. and what a majority in elections the elect would enjoy.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's hard not to think about that when you look at Trump pushing for more births, or when you hear about Elon Musk's 50th child, right when governments love the idea of increased birth rates, making more of your own to push back against the immigrants and the outsiders, to make sure we're not all replaced. I'm reading a piece on thehill.com called Why Musk and Vance Want You to Have More Babies.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
In that column, Christian Stade writes, Pro-natalism is having a moment. The Trump administration has announced plans to apportion state funding according to birth rates, and administration officials have endorsed tax penalties and even voting right restrictions for the childless.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
What is alarming about this moment in America is the sheer volume of pro-natalist policy and rhetoric issuing forth from the likes of powerful men such as Elon Musk, Vice President J.D. Vance and President Trump. The unabashedly coercive intent is to reduce women to merely their reproductive potential. It all sounds kind of familiar.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
As far as Jan and the book she co-wrote with her husband, to me, it feels like she's changed some of her more specific ideas about raising kids.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I think that includes some of the stuff like not being able to watch The Lion King. She shifted on that one a little, which adult Zach will be very pleased to hear.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
If there's one thing I'm going to say about one thing about holding media back from your kids for religious reasons, it is kind of cool to like shelter your kids and then blow their minds by taking them to the craziest shit imaginable. Like if you'd seen nothing and then Lord of the Rings comes out and that's the first thing you've seen, you haven't seen a lot of cartoons.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
You haven't seen any special effects and in a cinema, It would blow your fucking socks off.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I'm not recommending it. I'm just like, because I think Jurassic Park made a big impact on me because that was one of the first films I saw in a cinema, just because we didn't watch many films. So I wrote about this a bit on Webworm with Focus on the Family. And there was a comment that a reader made that I kind of was thinking about. I think Quiverfull is not great.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
But then talking to his mum, she was just this sweet woman who had basically done the best that she could do. And it's a bit like what we fell into with Focus on the Family. It's like all these parents raised their kids with some terrible methods. But they were trying to do the best they could. But they were trying. He moved out of a super intense type of Christianity into a much more liberal one.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
But he wrote, for a ton of reasons you get into, this stuff is incredibly dangerous and paves the way to authoritarianism. But I also want to note how hard that would have been to see for many of our parents.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's easy to forget that part of how this became so pervasive in places like New Zealand and America was that it was broadcast as the default option for many Christian parents in a saturated media landscape.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
This gave it a sense of legitimacy and normality in the church landscape and tapped into this huge sense of trust in wise pastoral leadership by churchgoers who were largely used to following directives on how to do things the right way.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
What we now see as completely bonkers and downright harmful was unapologetically printed on cutesy bookmarks and kids' books in Christian bookstores, which made it seem obvious, sensible, wise, and firm, but kind." And I just keep thinking about that. These parents probably now going, and I think a bit like what Jan was going, which was like, oh, I don't really, I probably wouldn't,
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Okay, so your children were sort of semi-planned. They were fully planned. They were fully planned.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
In saying that, Quiverfull did have some quite batshit teachings. Mary Pride, who was kind of one of the main instigators of the whole Quiverfull thing, she took that quote in Psalms very seriously. She basically argued that Sex for anything but procreation was like incredibly wrong and pleasure bad, kids only. Pride argued God commanded that sex be at least potentially fruitful.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
All forms of sex that shy away from marital fruitfulness are perverted. It was also pride's belief that the devil deceives Christian couples into using birth control so that children God otherwise willed to create are prevented from being born.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a bunch of non-Christian religions that are also deeply into no contraception. That was just the pillar of Quiverful was... That was their only... I think what I find funny and interesting about it is that's the one thing.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
yeah it's not like they had other things like there was little other things attached in the world of that form of christianity but the one thing was like no contraception god is in control of your quivers and just do your thing and if you're meant to have loads of kids you will and if you don't you don't do they have any like stance on sexual desire then too no sexual desire was god's way to make children like the only reason for sexual desire was that you fuck and have kids
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
How long before you were like, we're going to have a kid? Like three sexes. Wow, that's so good. That's incredible. Was it the same number for first child and second child or was one a bit quicker? It happened like pretty quick for both. That's amazing. So I would argue if you practice Quiverful, i.e. no conjure receptive, you would probably have about, how many, like probably 30 kids by now?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
more christians or more people within your religion that's more people to go proselytize your religion absolutely and push it that's the whole thing yeah just create an army of like mostly white christians to go out and create more of those people yeah which is interesting because i think and i'm curious to get your take on this because i don't have kids but there is that thing as a parent right where you create this little person so that when you die
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
you can send your ethics and morals and thoughts into the world. Part of the joy of having a kid seems to be creating a little you that you then launch forward into the world. There's a little bit of that.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
wanting to push your ethics since you want your kids to become whoever they become as long as they're guided to not be an asshole but it's like seeing the young version of me and in calvin and being like oh that part of you is me when i was seven years old and i see that and i connect to that a lot do you think you're secretly raising them to become um podcasters podcast producers
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I mean, Calvin's doing pretty well on the show at the end, you know. There was another thing I found that I found quite amazing. There were these quiverful adherents, Brad and Dawn Irons, and they ran a business that I really like the sound of called Blessed Arrow Sterilization Reversal Ministry. And their whole thing was basically going around and anyone that had been involved
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
sterilized um like what do you call it when men get in america so like a term for me vasectomy so brad and dawn irons um advocate for quiverful ideas while providing funding physician referrals and support to christians wishing to undergo sterilization reversal surgery
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Institute for Basic Life Principles founder Bill Gothart, who was for the record a very, very bad man, also advocates for reversals saying that sterilized couples have cut off children and should devote themselves instead to raising up godly seed.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Quiverful is like a branch of Christians. You'll be a normal old Christian going to like a normal old Baptist church or an evangelical church, but you'll be like, we are also Quiverful and we are taking an extra step forward. And we are not using contraception. Therefore, we are quiverful and you are not. And we are right and you are wrong.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Oh, really good question. I mean, within this type, the priests aren't celibate. So that's like a Catholic thing, right? Where like priests are celibate.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I think with these happy, clappy Christians, no celibacy. They're having sex, but they're married, and they're only having sex to have children. So there's no celibacy involved. The whole thing with Quiverful, I guess, that I find so fascinating is it's one scripture and psalm. about a man having like a quiver full of arrows. They're like, you should have children.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
A man is happy if he has children. And just a certain number of Christians went, this is a cool idea. The idea kind of took off and the ones that wrote most strongly about it in Quiverful all very much loved the idea of like breeding more of themselves to spread the word. And non-Quiverful Christians would also, I think all Christian families would
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Probably, yeah. Do you think you'd ever go more than two? No. Why two for you? Two feels good. I've got one sibling, like two was great.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
of a certain type think they do need to indoctrinate their kids to make more of themselves. So it's not on this, they're not all on this idea of like, we must have 10 Christian kids, but they are very much like our kids should be Christian so they can keep up the faith, which is also with other faith traditions are exactly the same.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's like a lot of religions want to raise their kids in that exact thing so that it doesn't die out.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I mean, there's less of that now in general, right? I mean, I don't have any kids and I'm not planning on having them anytime soon. Yeah. And that wouldn't have been as trendy, you know, 30 years ago. I would have probably been more of a freak then than I am now.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Yeah. It's funny, eh? There is just, I think there is this idea within Christianity, and I'm only talking about Christianity because it's the thing I know, and so I feel I can talk to it, but it's that idea of, like, a family is the normal thing. It's like father, mother, children, white picket fence. Well, and that was the goal. Which is also hand in hand with the American dream, right?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Like that is very much the American idyllic thing of like that Truman Show existence.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Well, your kids rule. And that's the thing. Like you want to, I think every parent, I'm talking like I know what I'm talking about. I have no fucking idea. But you want to have a stable situation, which is why the white picket fence and shit comes into it. Like that's one way of giving stability. Right.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
the opposite like i think if someone doesn't have kids i'm not like those weirdos don't have i never feel like you've judged me once for not having children i feel at times i think i'm an asshole i think i sometimes judge friends that have kids because i'm like what are you doing why are you bringing like more kids into this planet that's kind of messed up yeah and also like why are you having like so many children when you could just have a couple like do we need this many more
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
concentration too this is interesting shit to get into isn't it it'll be kind of interesting looking at the reasons for family size in america correlation right now yeah just just between like culturally and mixed up with like religion and mixed up with area and mixed up with your socioeconomic status like how that all lines up yeah because i have no clue
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Another quiverful thing is that they maintain that God opens and closes the womb of a woman on a case by case basis. So essentially like any attempt to regulate fertility is basically giving a middle finger to God because he is the one that is physically opening and shutting the womb. And so if you're trying to control it, you're being like, God, I don't trust you. So I'm taking over.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
You know, that's God. That was a very funny horror. Yeah, that was a good one. I enjoyed that. It was based on like a myth, right? Or some idea that in some cultures vaginas do have little teeth. Yeah, the whole Bill Gothard thing is a whole, I'm not going to do it immediately. I'll do it in like a year or something.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
But the whole Bill Gothard Institute for Basic Life Principles, which a lot of quiverful people were into, that was super bad. That'll be for another day.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Not super bad the movie, which I back in the day did a junket for. I flew to New Zealand to LA to interview the cast. And there's a photo with me with, I'm wearing a shirt. And you know, sometimes you wear, it was when I wore dress shirts for the news in New Zealand. And it was a certain shirt that when you start sweating, it instantly comes through.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And so I've got this photo where I've got my arms around Jonah Hill and McLovin and Michael Cera. And I've just got these massive wet patches under my arms. And it's disgusting. And it's one of my favorite photos.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I'll find it. All right. Feedback. The feedback quality... It gets better and better.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Bob Barker prison. Different Bob Barker. Different Bob Barker. A lot of people wrote in about this. Michael said, you've probably already been told this or figured it out. But there's a Bob Barker in a small town in North Carolina, in a quaint small town outside of the capital Raleigh? Really?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
He runs a prison supply company. I used to do his lawn service about 20 years ago. He owns a lot of that small town. So yeah, not the host, but another guy.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And little slippers for Christmas. Joe wrote in, I think the shitting on the blimp thing is like performing in front of people. It's way more embarrassing to sing in front of five friends than it is to sing in front of 500 people in an audience. There's a level of anonymity that makes it okay as opposed to shitting in a blimp. Wherever it stinks, everyone knows it was you.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
No, I mean, you can only talk to your own personal feelings about yourself, which is whatever.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
No, to clarify, yeah, the Goodyear blimp, you're in like a minivan underneath. A minivan shaped enclosure.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Yeah. no i should have said minivan yeah and so in a minivan suddenly stepping into the bathroom being like excuse me i need to piss or shit deal with it well i think we were both on the same page that's shitting on this thing was a no-no was a no-no it was the weeing that was the issue yeah but now you know it's small i mean i still would have peed on that With a full bladder. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And see what you do. I mean... Tom, who actually featured in our pinball episode back in the day, he is a huge stickler for details, which I appreciate. He said, you should have further explained the differences or similarities between Zeppelins versus... Yeah, you should have, David. I don't know how to say that word. Versus blimps versus airships.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Zeppelins were rigid body airships filled with hydrogen. But since modern day Goodyear airships are rigid body, could they also be considered as Zeppelins filled with helium? I'm going to admit I don't understand any of that, but I wanted to read it out because he's very smart. Scott wrote in... from Portland, which is where we're doing our live show soon.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
There's a huge old hangar about 70 miles from Portland in the town of Tillamook. The wood truss construction is a marvel. It sounds like this old hangar was maybe used to house the airships in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and also in the Rocketeer. Famous old hangar, 70 miles out of Portland. I'll investigate. Nicole wrote in about our prisons episode.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I was excited to see an episode focused on prisons. The U.S. prison system is a heavy, complex, and often painful topic, but an important one. I've had the privilege of working closely with both incarcerated individuals and program providers in corrections.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I teach yoga to men and women in jail in Little Rock, Arkansas, many of whom are either awaiting sentencing or serving part of their sentence before being transferred to prison. This is just one of the hundreds of yoga programs that Prison Yoga Project provides globally. We also provide training to correctional staff on incorporating these practices into their work.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I just thought that was a cool thing. Someone's in there doing yoga with prisoners. How awesome is that?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's heavy. It's heavy. It's really heavy. It is about a child that allegedly commits a crime. Yeah, 13-year-old boy. 13-year-old boy. And it's... dark yeah it's real dark and they everything's a wonder that they're shooting the whole thing which until you told me i embarrassingly had not noticed i noticed some bits of it were one shot yeah each episode one shot insane
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
No, well, I think this is really interesting because I think this is where Quiverful kind of comes in because Quiverful is the extreme of that. It's like we're having a ton of kids because God is in charge, which is not just in Quiverful, it's in a bunch of different religions. But that's kind of what it tends towards, right?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Which I appreciate because I'm kind of getting sick of too many episodes. Like, let's have... If it can be told in four episodes, tell it in four.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
they're all like classically trained like shakespearean actors yeah uh stephen graham's in this one who is incredible a good face right yeah like you believe him as that character it's not that you're not looking at brad pitt yeah you're looking oh no i believe this is this person anyway i recommend it right yes amazing show a lot of people wrote in about the white dog poop that i mentioned
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
So white dog poop is caused by the level of calcium in a dog's feces. Dog food has gotten better over time and thus the calcium levels have decreased, meaning you don't see white dog poop around anymore. So there you go.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Wow. So you'd have like orange shits and blue shits. Just like chunks of crayons.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Apparently, there's also a scene, embarrassingly, I've never seen Step Brothers. There's a scene in Step Brothers where Will Ferrell's character licks a white dog poo. So it is a thing that apparently America has as well as New Zealand.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Angela also wrote in from Australia saying, I remember this distinctly in the 80s walking home from school in Brisbane, Australia, and my brother picking up dried white dog poop and drawing with it on the footpath like it was chalk. Australia. It's good. Finally, Dan wrote in about the blimp toilet.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
In your Goodyear blimp episode, you mentioned being on a regular aircraft in the bathroom and looking out the window. And Dan works for an airline, I should mention. But you missed the big question. Were you able to pee with the window shade open? In my experience, 50% of guys can't go unless the shade is down for reasons they can't quite justify. And I thought this raises an interesting point.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I don't know if the blimp toilet had a window or not, but when you are weeing on a plane, do you have any issue with a window?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Yeah. When we go to New Zealand... Well, you're in a much bigger plane, right? Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I've got a friend that has about six kids, and they're not religious at all. They just love having kids. It's like a thing.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Oh. If I'm weeing on a little American plane, I'm bent over and trying to not touch, like, wet walls, and it's awful in there.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Yeah, you're trying to poke and not touch all these other wet towels. So when you're on the flight to New Zealand, if you're weeing, there's a window there, and you look out, and there's clouds, there's sky. It's not like you look out there and there's someone wandering by. That would be a problem. But yeah, apparently, according to this air host, uh...
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
50% of guys can't go unless that window is down. And I just find that fascinating. So we'll try with you. I love, maybe I'm an exhibitionist. I've got no reason to be. I like the window being open. It's like free. It's like I'm weeing in the woods or something, but I'm weeing up in the sky. I don't think I'd have a problem with that. We'll find out. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I'll be in there with you and we'll see what you do. Did you have asphalt in New Zealand?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I remember at our school, we had the Johnsons, and I think they had maybe, she had maybe nine siblings, and it was definitely a religious thing.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Oh, God. Uh-oh. Oh. This is a headline here on the LA Times. Seventh Heaven. Alums condemn TV dad Stephen Collins' sexual abuse ahead of rewatch. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, any crazy popular show, there's going to be some horrific shit that comes out of it, right?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I've just got one question for you today. The episode is about... Quiverful. Do you know what quiverful is?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Yes. A little too on the nose. A tiny bit of admin. Yes. Because we love admin. We still have two live shows coming up. Portland on April 13th and San Francisco on April 18th. I've been told not to call it San Fran because that's horrific. Yeah. SF is okay, I think. But San Francisco is good.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's okay typing it like that. I don't want to offend anyone. So tickets are on sale for those shows. Now, thank you for all the submissions and ideas you're putting through to flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com. I feel in my head I have kind of what the shows are going to be now. But of course, if you've got any insane ideas that come up, feel free to email still.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Yeah, we're trying to spread the podcast around, so bring some buddies. We've also got some t-shirts for sale for Flightless Bird at flightlessbirdpod.com. We're on YouTube. And as always, you can contact us at flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Oh, yeah. Yeah, where basically you can pitch your idea to us directly on the show about what you think we should do a deeper dive into. So last time we did this, we've only done it once and we loved it and we've never done it again because it's a bit of an admin hell to get together. Yeah, yeah. But that's how we found out about Navy Dolphins.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Can you take a stab in the dark? So it's quiver full, like Q-U-I-V-E-R-F-U-L-L. So a quiver is like what an archer uses to put their arrows in. And I guess full, quiver full indicates that you have a full quiver. What do you think quiver full could be about? And you can be wrong.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And if you want to submit to being a part of that, it is bit.ly slash. FB fancy. Yes. All lowercase. Yeah. If you're watching us on YouTube, then the URL is in front of you now. Do people say URL? URL? Yeah, URL.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
yes hi risabelle that's a very sheepish answer oh no why are you calling me i'm calling you for the podcast do i have a different voice when i call you for the podcast as opposed to just a friendship call that isn't for the podcast
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
But this isn't just going to be a Christian cult podcast, but I just found this whole topic incredibly fascinating.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I was raised in the Baptist church, so I kind of feel like I know the world enough. So when I hear about this stuff, I kind of leap on it. I've been writing about weird megachurches on my newsletter, Webworm, for about four years now. And being in America, it's like crack. It's like the weirdest shit is here.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And I talk to one person about a certain topic, and then they refer me on to another topic, and it just goes on and on and on.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Do 40 of these a year. Easily, like easily. And there's many branches to go on and I'm very excited to go on them. Yeah, they also get a little weirder. Oh, they get so strange. Bonus thing. I went to Mexico on the weekend. And I know Mexico isn't America, but it's very close. And I loved it. Have you been there?
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
well i feel like your life has kind of got like so sucked into here and there's so much going on like you have like family and so much work here yeah international travel is not really possible with for yeah little kids and stuff Well, and just my job. Totally. There were some cheap flights. One of my favorite bands, Tool, was playing to about 30,000 people.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And I just want to say the crowd there, like the Mexican crowd was amazing. So enthusiastic and not in an annoying way. Like I've been to a Tool show in like, what's that? The Staples Center. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
pretty annoying people yeah mexico just the most warm people had face paint on they dressed up a woman had done all her nails like themed and like tool album covers it was just really really like pure i have heard that about shows in mexico i have heard that the bootleg merchandise is apparently insane there this blew my mind so i had a friend that told me about this as well and you leave a concert right there's always some someone selling some t-shirts like usually on the ground
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Well, look. I've seen that. Mexico is a whole other level. So we left the stadium. There are about maybe 20,000 people there. And they have basically booths set up. About 20 of them in a row. So this is like full tables. Every area...
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
has different merchandise the merchandise is better than what the band is printing like the prints are better it's more beautiful it's it's incredible that's what i've heard i have a friend that when they toured there they just bought it from these vendors and sold that as their merch I want to look into this.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
I assume it's just legally it's a bit looser and they can kind of get away with it where maybe they get burnt if they're doing it in the States or other territories. But God, it was good. Like this stuff was incredible. Yeah. And as a fan of the band, I was, I didn't know where to look. I didn't know what to do. And it's, it's cheaper. It's better. And the vendors there were like dope as hell.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
Like I was taking photos of them and they were like posing for camera and they were just like, it was the best. The other thing, I went to like a mezcal tasting and I learned about mezcal and I just found it fascinating. So it comes from the agave plant, right? Which is this big, weird, like cactus thing.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
No, so they are, right? So when I first came to LA, which is maybe when I first came on this trip, when I got stuck here, it was about four years ago. An agave had just flowered and died. And it was about to fall on the house. It was this huge drama.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's a big... It's like a big log. Yeah. And it's basically, when that dies, once it's flowered, it, like, falls onto your house.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It's mad. Yeah. And so I didn't realize that's where they're getting mescal from. They call it the... So right in the middle of that cactus thing is what they call the pineapple. And that's where they, like... I guess, drain the liquid from.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
But they have to basically harvest it in Mexico at the exact right point where it hasn't quite flowered because the flower is like the energy finally leaving and the pineapple in the middle sort of starts to rot and like it's useless. And the other thing I found out, they put salts around our glasses and they were like, this is made out of worms.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And I was like, excuse me, what are you talking about? And these are worms that are found in the agave plant. And I've noticed this on some plants. Some of the leaves, sometimes you see they're really scratched up. And apparently that is coyotes or other wild animals. They can sense the plant is infected with these worms. They love eating these worms.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
And so if a farmer sees an agave plant all scratched up, it knows that it's infected with worms. So they'll chop off the infected part.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
they'll get the worms out and then they'll crunch dry them up crunch them up and that turns into salt that you then use to like put on the top of your glass so it's almost like uh the coyotes are like truffle pigs they're like truffle pigs yeah which blew my mind because i'd seen those scratches i had no idea that they are out looking for worms that are in this plant that is pretty wild so that's my little side fact if you're sick of if you're sick of cold chat oh
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
It feels like product placement, but this is, we got given this at the, I bought it at this tasting. It is one of the few female run Mezcal makers in Mexico. And so I thought I would buy a little bottle of this and I'm going to be sipping it during this episode.
Flightless Bird
Quiverfull
would you like some as well you can't you're off the booth yep imagine if i got you back on the alcohol terrible i thought that was just water david oh my god i thought this was this is just nectar from the agave plant right um so i just wanted to say mexico's freaking great and i purely just went to a tool show i didn't do any recordings there but i would like to maybe i'll do an episode about agave plants i don't know
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I was on my computer getting some songs ready, and next thing I knew, I felt like a 500-pound man had punched me in the back as hard as humanly possible. So I turned around, expecting there'd be a huge dude about to fight me, and it was a stripper holding a knife. As shocked as he was, he knew he had to stay calm. Anyway, it goes on for a long time.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
He got stabbed a bunch more times, and the news article ends with him saying he's still wondering why the dancer attacked him, completely unprovoked. Does anyone know how this ended? I couldn't find any more information. Maybe he deserved it. I don't know. Okay, this is a sad one. Portland man thought he was going on a first date, but he ended up getting robbed by a group of men who catfished him.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Hang out at Park, then your house.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
A Portland man thought he was going on a first date and he ended up getting robbed by a group of men who catfished him. Cooper said the date was planned on the Bumble dating app. The person's profile looked convincing enough, but when he came to Lincoln City to meet her, she was not the person who showed up. I was excited because it had been a while since I had a date, he said.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Hello, Rosabelle. How is my friend doing?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It's been about a week since the robbery and he says he's still processing what happened. It was a pretty standard bumble match. She seemed interested in meeting immediately, which I guess is a little rare. According to Cooper, a few messages as bumble match was sent were a little odd, but not necessarily red flags. They did say to bring money so he could get food after.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
But I guess it's hard to tell what that means. I wasn't immediately thinking they wanted to steal my money when he pulled up to Lincoln City Park. Do we know Lincoln City Park? Yeah. At around 3 p.m., he started feeling uneasy. I walked into my date and I saw these four sketchy-looking dudes in the middle of the park. I texted her and she said she was exactly where those guys were.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I waited for them to go away so I felt a little safer to walk back into the park. But then they just popped out of nowhere. It's so sad. In his photo too. He tried to run away but the four guys caught up with him and started threatening him. What I love about local stories is they go on for so long. Simple details. Anyway, he got robbed, it's horrible. There was no date, it was all fake.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And how did the barrels fit into the game?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Police said they're investigating the incident but added they don't think this type of catfishing is very common. What a cop out. He doesn't care about that, he just wants the crime solved. Okay, this is a rough end. Portland man was sentenced to life in prison for stabbing a man to death, dumping his body in the trunk of a car and lighting that car on fire in 2018. It's not funny, who's laughing?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
A Portland man was sentenced to life in prison for stabbing a man to death, dumping his body. The first line is the same as the headline. Dumping his body in the trunk of a car and lighting that car on fire back in 2018. The jury found Thomas Robert Colon guilty of murder last week. He pleaded guilty to abuse of a corpse. Oh no, there's a baby. I'm so sorry. It all ended happily ever after.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
A fairy came to life and brought them back to life and everything's okay. And everything was great.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Okay. We have a brief moment now of what we like to call audience participation. Now, in the foyer, You filled in some cards talking about some of the weird things that you thought your town had to offer. We have backstage had a friend curate, cull the duds. A lot of people are apparently just saying like, oh, it's so like nice here. Like that's a weird thing in the bin.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So we're going to have the weirdest cards brought out by, oh, who's bringing them out? This is Calvin. Thank you, Calvin. You're wonderful. Always trying to outstage me. I'm always deeply concerned about Calvin, because I assure you, if he was here talking into the mic, our numbers would actually rocket, genuinely. I'm deeply worried about this job. Okay.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Apparently you have a unicycling Darth Vader who plays flaming bagpipes. That's cool. I have nothing else to say on that.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I like that. The Church of Alvis. Used to go there as a kid. Weird little electric shrine to Alvis. Put in a quarter and shit happened. It's weird and awesome as so is Portland. You can get married there. That's cool. It's like Vegas. I don't mean to compare you to Vegas. You're much better. Naked bike riders. Even when there's no event, just cruising around.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Do you have naked bike rides in New Zealand? We do. They generally get arrested. They do it in Chicago.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And you're all okay with it? Cool. That's cool. I'm into it.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Coffin Club? Not anymore? Uh-oh. What do you mean? Oh no, Japan's taking it over. Your sister city. Kyoto, apparently. Okay, coffin club. Bar with a coffin you can lay in. And great absinthe drinks.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I like the sound of that. Being stuck naked behind the bike ride. A naked person looking at other naked people.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Stickers. Stickers. I kind of like this. I dress like a child, so I'm into stickers being all over a city. Thank you for filling in these cards, and thanks for keeping things weird. We like weird. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Symbiotica.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Now, if there's anything I've learned so far this year, it's that small habits make huge differences. My old habits of having incredibly unhealthy breakfast cereals have gone out the window, and that has really helped me. And I'm trying to form good habits instead. And that's where Symbiotica comes in. They make choosing healthy habits easy, enjoyable, and something to look forward to.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Plus, don't know if you've noticed this, but spring is here, and we've got an amazing deal from our friends at Symbiotica. There's no better time to hit refresh on your routines. Every morning, I take Symbiotica's liposomal glutathione. Delicious, it's tasty. It's a great way to start the day. It's great for your gut health, which can help support bloating and general digestion.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It tastes really yummy. Citrus berry flavor, yum yum. And it's easy to have on the go and it travels because it comes in easy little travel packs. Now, did you know that your body naturally produces glutathione, but your levels drop significantly as you age, especially after your 20s and 30s, which is exactly where I am now. I am in my early 40s. Scary.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Symbiotica's liposomal glutathione helps restore what time takes away, supporting cellular energy and defending against free radicals. Replenish, protect, and glow from within one packet. With thousands of five-star reviews, this product speaks for itself. It's the real deal. Symbiotica's supplements never contain seed oils, preservatives, toxins, or artificial additives.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
No unclear ingredients or misleading labels. These are the cleanest, most effective products out there. Feel your absolute best going into spring with Symbiotica. Wellness made simple. Go to symbiotica.com slash bird for 20% off your order and free shipping. Go to symbiotica.com slash bird for 20% off your order and free shipping. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Shopify.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Now when you start your own business it can be incredibly intimidating and lonely thanks to all the hats you suddenly have to wear. In the past I've created some online merch stores and it has been a real hassle to try and figure out how all that works and I wish, I wish I had had Shopify as a business partner to get me started.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Because finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything you do can be such a game changer. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US, from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands that are just getting started.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And now you can get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready-to-use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautifully designed online store to match your brand's style. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world-class expertise in running everything from managing inventory to international shipping, which is really important, to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com bird.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Go to shopify.com bird, shopify.com bird. Support for Flightless Bird comes from ExpressVPN. Now going online without ExpressVPN is like not closing the door when you go to the bathroom to take a wee or a little poo. Even if you think you have nothing to hide, why give random creeps a chance to invade your privacy? ExpressVPN
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
reroutes 100% of your internet traffic through secure encrypted servers so your ISP can't see your browsing history, hides your IP address making it extremely difficult for third parties to track your online activity. It also works on all devices, phones, laptops, tablets and more so you can stay private on the go. It's also rated number one by top tech reviewers like CNET and The Verge.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Me being over here in America, I find it very handy when I want to check on things in New Zealand. I can just set my location to New Zealand and that lets me peek at websites that sometimes I can't look at from America. Thanks ExpressVPN. I value my privacy and as I said, I also like to be able to change my location when I want because that can be really handy on the internet.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Now, protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com slash bird. That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash bird to find out how you can get up to four extra months free. Expressvpn.com slash bird. It's time now for our first guest. He texted me this morning saying, I'm bringing in the butt print. I know, what? No, that's what I thought.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Cliff Barrackman is the man behind the North American Bigfoot Centre. He's been doing Bigfoot research since 1994. His expeditions have taken him to 46 states around America and five continents in search of evidence supporting the existence of undiscovered hominoids worldwide. He's the evidence analyst on Animal Planet's hit TV show, Finding Bigfoot.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Yeah, good. I'm feeling good about today. It's been a good day so far, but it could all change. You never know in America when it could go bad, you know?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
He's applied his skill and expertise to a variety of photographic, video, film, and sound evidence. Please welcome to the stage Cliff Barrackman. Woo! Cliff, welcome. You have just gotten back from, I understand, a Bigfoot conference, literally tonight.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
You've bought a bunch, I mean, you've got a bunch of prints here. Maybe we should, I love a good prop. Can you just explain what this is? Because I know you have a lot of specimens. That's your thing.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Let's zoom out and go big picture here. When I first got the internet in New Zealand, I mean, I'm old, so there was a period before the internet and when I got the internet. I got the internet, and one of my first things I dived into was cryptozoology, so I was obsessed with Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot. I felt like I was Mulder from the X-Files, looking at these amazing websites about these things.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I've become intensely more cynical since then. I believe in pretty much nothing. And I struggle with Bigfoot because it is something that I was obsessed with as a kid. But now here in America, I genuinely don't understand what is going on. You're in a world where this is a real creature that exists. I'm in a world where I think, show me the body or it's not real. Where do you exist in that?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Because I also feel like part of America as well as showmanship and having this thing, where do you sit in that world? Because you understand... Where's the body, you know?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Do you think... Is the one out there or the sort of 150 out there... Oh, it's a species.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Thanks so much, everybody. Thank you so much. My God, Portland, thanks for having us. So far, I think it's fair to say we love your city. Yeah, I love Portland. Imagine if we got here and we just started the show with like, we fucking hate it. Yeah. Just to be clear, are there any people from ICE in the audience? Because you can fuck right off. Eternally. Yeah, jump into a big pit of fire.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
What is your goal in this research? Because obviously, it's an entire world here in the United States. In New Zealand, we have the Mohawk Man in the Coromandel Rages, which is our version of Bigfoot, and people think it's possibly a gorilla that escaped a zoo very early on in New Zealand's history.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
In your time studying Bigfoot, what's the most exciting moment you've had where you've got that original excitement of when you first got into this topic?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So you're basically saying Bigfoot is very, very hot.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
These, you know, because in a perfect world, I would have loved to have had time to go to the conference you were just at. I imagine the people they attract, there's a variety of people. I mean, there's people like you that I feel are taking this seriously. There's people there that are probably lunatics as well. Like, how do you navigate the community of people that are into Bigfoot?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Because there's a variety of people attracted to that scene.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
As we wrap up, I'm curious as well, because rewinding back to when I was a kid, Bigfoot was one of the most interesting sort of crazy topics I could think about. I feel here in 2025, Bigfoot is almost as normal as it gets. Do you feel that? Do you feel like the world, the craziness of the world has kind of outpaced how crazy your field of study is?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Rob, do you have any words for this beautiful audience? I think you put it perfectly.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I think that's a good world to live in.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Cliff, thank you so much. We're going to have you back at the end for a Q&A. Thank you, sir. Butt print. It's the strong butt that we can all aspire to. It's a heavy butt. It's really heavy, right? My God. Who out there yell out if you believe in Bigfoot? Yeah, well, and yell out if you think it's all, like, bullshit. Yeah. Where do you fall on that?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It would be so dramatic if I did stage an arrest. Have your phones ready. This, yeah, it's been a really beautiful time. We've been here for sort of two days? 36 hours. 36 hours. Rob forgot to inform me on this tour that he would be bringing his entire family with him. And so... I thought it was going to be kind of like a sort of a boy's trip.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I'm in the... It's awkward, because he's there, you know?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Okay. We're going to interview our second guest of the night. I don't know if you've noticed here, but there is a lot of signage pointing towards a place called Beaverton. And for a long time, I sort of, I saw that word and it was like, it sort of was meaningless. It was like, obviously, after a while, I'm like, oh, it's beaver town, like a town full of beavers. And it was like that moment.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Did you watch Transparent, that show? Yeah. About two years after I watched that show, I realized it was about a trans parent. I don't think I ever clocked that either. Oh, right, yeah. It's crazy. So it was like that with Beaverton. I'm like, oh, fuck, it's Beavertown. And then I realized when we were coming here that, holy shit, Oregon fucking loves the beaver. Like, so much.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And this was a comfort to me because when we did beavers as an episode of Flightless Bird a long time ago now, got a lot of abuse. People said they're Canadian. It's not American, it's Canadian. I know, shocked. Coming here though and seeing all these signs for Beaverton, I knew that this was beaver town and so I wanted to talk to a beaver expert. Are you aware of your flag? Two different sides.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It's only one of two flags in the world that has two sides. Paraguay is the other flag. The other side of your cheeky Oregon flag is a fucking beaver. There it is. No one told me this until I came here and I discovered this. Holy shit. Beavers are American. And for me, that's very heartwarming because a lot of people told me they were Canadian. So it's really just about redemption for you? It is.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Matthew Gazooka is a beaver researcher from Portland State University. He is a beaver enthusiast. He's been knee-deep in data and knee-deep in mud for fucking years. And his master's thesis, Beavers in the City, dives into the strange and surprising world of urban beavers. Matthew, please come to the stage and educate us. Thank you. about the world of the urban beaver. Matt, how are you?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Hey, how's it going? Really good. Good. You love beavers. I mean, who doesn't? What made you want to get into this field of research exactly?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Over your time researching the beaver, what's been the most interesting thing and surprising thing that you have found out for yourself about this creature that is, it's amazing?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Yeah, but, you know, it's, oh, here's, here's, yeah, patience, patience. But, you know, then suddenly, you know, Natalie's here. I love your wife. She's great. And Natalie's here and the kids are here. And then the other day your mum arrives. And I'm like... There's a lot of room in our Airbnb. No, there is a lot of room. It's really good.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Am I right in thinking that a lot of beavers were like culls in the wild? There was like a big cull of beavers, or am I making that up? A cull is when a beaver is killed. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I had no fucking idea. Do you know that? Oh my God. That's amazing. Wait, so we're like, you did your paper on your thesis on urban beavers. Yes. The beavers in the city.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I'm curious about this because obviously beavers sort of, I picture them living out in the wild, making their dams, doing their thing. Yeah. But they're all sort of living in amongst us.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It's like a debaucherous boys trip with your entire family on the road with us. Really good. We like to start these live shows off with us kind of experiencing your city, your beautiful town. And we've been around town, and Rob has prepared a little slideshow of our experience. This was yesterday morning. Now, one of my big struggles in America is that you don't love tea enough.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Yeah. That's their, like, one thing that I know about. What are they doing?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So when you're in the city, you know, you bought your first home, you're very proud that you've got your house, suddenly some beavers move in and you're fucking flooded.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Like what are you meant to do? Like the urban beaver feels like a very stressful thing to be moving in. It's like the nightmare creature, right? It's like, oh fuck. It's like a raccoon is going to like steal your garbage. But a beaver is going to flood you out.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
You know, it's going to... Someone is... Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It's on the back of the flag.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
You can't keep pet beavers, can you?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Just finally, because it's something I am still struggling with here in this country, is Americans love or hatred of different animals. Like, I love this squirrel.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Some Americans seem very nonplussed. They treat them like a pigeon. I also love pigeons. Raccoons are kind of treated as sort of, people hate them. You know, they're going through your trash. I think they're one of the cutest things. They've got little hands they can grab onto things. There's otters running around. They seem adorable.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Beavers, I'm wondering, like, where beavers rank in, like, Americans' love of a creature.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I don't know what that is. Seven in the list.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
You love your coffee, but in New Zealand, tea is a huge thing, and America doesn't do it very well. But you do it fucking well. And I'm... Deeply appreciative of that.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Finally... And this came out, you know, we've talked back and forth about tonight and what we're going to talk about. And as always, I've just ignored all my original plans on a script. But when we were sort of talking about different animals, you mentioned the otter at one point.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Because in my mind, the otter and the beaver is kind of the same sort of genre of thing.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Here on the podcast, we're here to make you think. I don't know how to wrap this segment up, but to say thank you. Yeah, of course. We'll have you back at the end to talk more and answer questions about beavers and otters. Thank you so much, Matt. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for coming. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Support for Flightless Bird comes from Bombers. Now, people talk a lot about spring cleaning, but here's what you should really be talking about. Bombers spring socks. Yeah, you heard that right. It's a busy time of the year and the right socks can make or break your spring. Like, are you actually ready to commit to your new running hobby to get fit?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Well, Bombers thoughtfully has made blister-fighting, sweat-destroying socks. to help you get from mile one to marathon in comfort and in style. Also, Bombas makes the ultimate errand socks, from actually spring cleaning to walking the dog and everything in between. And you know what goes great with new spring socks?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Fresh white t-shirts, waterproof slides, and a few pairs of buttery soft seamless underwear. Bombas makes all that too. And they now offer international shipping. In addition to the US, they now ship to over 200 countries. I have Bombas socks, which I use when I'm going out. They have great ankle high socks. They have great running socks. I use all of them.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Bombas started making socks when they learned that they're the number one most requested clothing item in homeless shelters. So thank you for shopping with Bombas. You have helped donate over 150 million essential items. Now that's a lot of socks and a lot of kindness. Head over to bombas.com slash bird and use code bird for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash bird.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Code bird at checkout. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Spot and Tango. Now, as you probably know, if you listen to this podcast, I am a big fan of Rob's dog and that dog survives on Spot and Tango. Spot and Tango is a personalized dog food subscription that delivers high quality, ready to serve meals, snacks, and supplements right to your door. So no more last minute pet store runs.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It was a struggle to get the hair in there, but it happened. And smelling tea. Mm-hmm. That was a mint.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Most kibble is packed with fillers and mystery ingredients, who knows what's really in it, but Spot and Tango does things differently. Their un-kibble meals are made with human-grade ingredients, including USDA meat, fruits and veggies. No artificial stuff, no preservatives.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Using their fresh-dry process, fresh ingredients are gently cooked and freeze-dried to lock in nutrients, creating a shelf-stable, nutrient-rich meal that's as close to home-cooked as it gets without any of the hassle. As I say, saw Rob's dog the other day, looking very sprightly, very healthy, love Huxley Great dog. Love Spot and Tango.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It also creates a custom plan based on your dog's age, breed, weight, and their activity levels. So you know they're getting exactly what they need. Plus the easy to use scoop makes portioning really simple. Spot and Tango is offering an exclusive deal for our listeners. For a limited time, go to spotandtango.com slash bird and use code bird to get 50% off your first order.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
That's spotandtango.com slash bird, code bird to get 50% off your first order. spotandtango.com slash bird code bird. Oh my god. I'm shocked. Who was shocked by otters? No, I was. Horrible. Were you shocked, Rob? That otter stuff, yeah. Rob, you're always cool and contained. Always. It's incredible. I'm shocked constantly here and you're like, oh yeah. Raping otters, it's fine.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
There's nothing like inhaling a bag of tea that big. Like a sack of tea is so, so good. My God. I don't think you're wearing a hairnet yet either in that photo. Let's not talk about that. It's fine. We threw that bag out. It's okay. Yeah, and then we got to do a romantic tea flight. It was so nice.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
At the beginning of the show, I called my friend, Rosabelle. And Rosabelle always, you know, she comes up with ideas about things that I've never thought of before. And she rambled on about barrels. And the entire time I've been here, an entire two days, I've been looking around for these barrels.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Barrels are big. Just quickly, like a show of sort of scream out if you think, if you associate Portland with barrels at all. Oh, wow. Okay. I was thinking about this a lot, and I did that call with Rosabelle five days ago now, and I got obsessed with the idea of barrels, and I got obsessed with the idea of the Oregon Trail video game.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And I did a bit of research, and I found out that if it were not for the actual Oregon Trail, states like California, Nevada, Washington, and Oregon, where we are now, might not be a part of the USA. Fucking crazy. 400,000 people used it before the railway arrived. I mean, you know all this. You've been to school here. I didn't know any of this, so I'm just blowing my mind.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So then I was like, okay, this video game, did the video game have barrels in it? And so I was like, who invented the video game? How does this thing work? So in 1971, three teachers invented the game because they wanted to teach kids in their class about the Oregon Trail.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Roosevelt did. I did not. Because I was homeschooled. And so I was raised in the ways of the Baptist church. And we didn't have the Oregon Trail. But Rosabelle did. So no, basically what blew me away when I started thinking about this is Oregon Trail was one of the very first games that was out ever. And it wasn't at home, it was at school.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And so if you were playing it at school, you were fucking obsessed with it because this was like the first video game you had ever played and it was incredible. And it kind of was like the first ever form of edutainment. It's a great word. So I was like, okay, do I talk, I want to find out about these barrels that Roosevelt was going on about.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And so I was like, can I find these three men that invented the video game? And then I realized, no, that wasn't the video game that Roosevelt would have played because that was just in American schools.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And so then I found out that in 85, the Minnesota Educational Computing Consortium bought the rights to the educational game and they wanted to overhaul the whole thing and make it like so you could play it at home. They chose three games to renovate and go into the home market. One of them was called Lemonade Stand. It was a big hit.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
One of them was called Odell Lake, which apparently it's a lake in Oregon. And in the game, you play a fish in the lake. Which is incredible. And the third game they chose to renovate and make big and put out into the home market was the Oregon Trail. And that is the game that eventually made it to New Zealand where Roosevelt played it in her grandfather's lounge.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I tracked down the man who invented that particular game. He was the one that made Oregon Trail mainstream. Phillip Bouchard is his name. Living legend, because in the original, one of the big enemies in the game was the Native American people, and one of the main enemies. If you were on the Oregon Trail, you'd get killed by Native Americans.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
We spooned our tea into our own little cups and I got very confused about what was happening, how that worked, but we made it in the end. Yeah, delicious tea. It was amazing. It was incredible. This company, my God. All right. What's happening here? Oh, Mike Bennett. This man. When we sort of put the call out to sort of what to do here, so many people emailed in.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Philip Bouchard came along and he was like, no, that's bullshit. Native Americans were actually very friendly and helped out. What killed people was dysentery. And the odd animal attack. And so he removed that Native American stuff and put in the reality, which is that most white people on that trail just got sick and died because they were kind of useless. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And so he put that into the game and made a much more accurate version. And that is the version that spread out of the American school system into like commercial land and then made it into New Zealand and made it into Roosevelt's house. Of course, all of this is to say, I wanted to find out about these fucking barrels.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And so I zoomed with Philip Bouchard, the guy who made the game that Roosevelt played, and I talked to him about the fucking barrels. And I just want to play this for you now. Were barrels a big part of the gameplay in the game, or is my friend misremembering?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Yeah, so Rosabelle, my friend, isn't going insane.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Okay, I'm going to pass that on to her. Speaking about this game in really broad terms, you know, there are thousands and thousands of games out there. Some of them stick and some of them don't. What do you think is the fundamental DNA of this game that you made that has made it stick and resonate with people?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Something that you came up with that ended up being kind of iconic and has stuck around is just the disease system that you were in. I mean, that's become one of the earliest means, was thanks to what you invented.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Before you go, I have a very incredibly American question for you. This is a game that, across the entire series, has sold something like 65 million copies. It's in the Video Game Hall of Fame. Has the Oregon Trail made you an incredibly rich American man?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I imagine some of you out there, like, go and see Mike Bennett. And it turns out that Mike Bennett, maybe this is oversharing, but he had recently had a child. And it turns out he's kind of been raising his child on Flightless Bird, which is so cool. And so we met up the other day and he's extraordinary. And as we've walked around the city, like his shit is everywhere and it's amazing.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Philip Bouchard, an American hero. Have we gotten too niche on this show? No, we haven't, right? Yeah. Philip Beauchard. I love him. And so, Rosabelle wasn't completely insane. There were a couple of barrels in the game. But also, like, not a lot of barrels. I think she was confused and she was maybe thinking of wagons. Yeah. Or Donkey Kong, maybe? Yeah, she was.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
She was playing Donkey Kong the whole time. I'll egg her again on the head. Okay, we're coming towards the end of this. Thanks for sharing this night with us. It's really special. We'll be outside afterwards. Come and say hello. We have the final T-shirts that we made. There's like heavy metal branded T-shirts. It's their last batch, so this is the only place to get them if you want them.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
We'll be out near the merch stand afterwards. On the cards that you kindly wrote in, we got you to pitch some ideas, and Rob is going to take us through a few of those. And if they're good, we might sort of get you to yell out sort of expanded thoughts on these ideas. We'll see. Giant pumpkin competitions. Oh. I'm intrigued. That feels generically American, not specific to Oregon, right?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I feel like everywhere I've been in America, there's fucking pumpkins. You love them. Yeah. Good, though. Having gone to school in New Zealand and the U.S., this is a whole thing. U.S. college admissions. Yeah, that's fucking crazy here. That's worthy of a new topic. I agree on that. Skinwalker ranch. Oh Yes, I don't know what that is.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It's a if I believe it's an area of sort of spiritual paranormal activity There's some like local history to the place. I Have an endless skinwalker. I Went to Universal Studios with the guy that owns it Which is insane. So I actually have like a weird and I haven't chased up on you and I need to go Okay
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
My other memory from going to Universal with the guy that owns Skinwalker Ranch is the background on my phone was Mitch McConnell having a stroke. And I remember when I put my phone down to be scanned in the line for Universal, the light came on bright, and the person scanning just looked down at my phone and saw Mitch O'Connell. You know that moment? He spaced out for three minutes.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And it's awful. It's not funny. But it kind of was. And I just remember the employee, like, getting so mad at me. Like, because he knew I was, like, disrespecting the United States, and it was, like, a whole very stressful thing. Anyway, it's still my background. Okay. Southern frats. Frat culture. I am intrigued, because we don't have fraternities in New Zealand at all.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
We even found one at the venue. Yeah. So this is a Bigfoot. And we've got a kiwi over there. And he custom made a kiwi for us. So we love Mike. So his cafe's amazing. The mini golf's amazing. This looks like David's on a toilet. He's not. That is the expression I make. This is accurate. That's nice, isn't it? Yeah, but Mike sort of blew my mind. And he's here tonight.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I feel like it's not even real, but apparently it is. I thought it was just in movies.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Yeah. Oh, we speak for a very long time in Congress and you filibuster. There was an amazing man who did it for like 24 hours recently. Yeah, fucking amazing. Yeah. No, I love this. Respect. And yeah, Portland strip club culture. I'll be exploring that later tonight. So thanks for that.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Oh She was mortified Yeah, we took Rob's mom out for some like coffee and cake and on the way Rob was like you do know where we're going, right? She got like a bit tense
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And then you said strip club and deeply concerned, like deeply worried to the point where I felt awkward, like we were like tricking this like, because your mum is so lovely and great and kind and you're just constantly harassing her. And it was awful and she was panicking in the car and I just had to turn around and say like, we're not, no, it's okay. There's no strip club. It's all right.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I would like to invite our two guests back onto the stage for a riveting seven and a half minute. I'm running out of time here. Q&A session. Cliff and Matt, please return to the stage. And we are going to talk Bigfoot. We're going to talk beavers. You have to move your dolls. These travel in my suitcase with me.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Okay, so we don't have a mic running, we don't have a mic running in the crowd, but you can basically put up a hand, we'll point, you yell, we'll get through it. Okay, so, beautiful shirt right here. Can we talk about the relationship between beaver and platypus? Deeply specific, and I love that question, and we have an expert here.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
What are you talking about? This is so specific. I was worried about Oregon Trail being specific.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
America can be great again. There's a little... The rat-tailed one with the one without a rat tail. The beaver. All building a dam. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Wow. Eat them and kill them. Okay. Any other questions? Over here, yell out. Oh, yeah, the anal glands of the beaver.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So big round of applause for Mike. Thank you. He's done some really cool things in this city. I really love it. Oh, okay, so I need to explain this. So when we did our last show, I was scribbling some things for people afterwards, and a woman walked up and said, can you please draw a kiwi? And I panicked because I can't draw kiwis.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
It's like you with the Bigfoot details. You drop these crazy lines like it's normal. A scent mound?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Use what you can use. Syrup, beard, gray shirt. Okay, so the question was, and I am just repeating this because in case we release the episode, I have to have the audio. Is there a specific sense that a Bigfoot will release from the anal glands, any glands, under, wherever?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I love my work. Three more questions. Do you think it is likely that you will encounter a live Bigfoot in your lifetime?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
The question is, do you think there'll be a point where we as, you know, I'm interviewing you as an audience out there, we all want to believe in these things. We all want the specimen, the thing that we go, oh, we can finally believe. Like, will we get a body? Will we get a thing? Like, we must.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
I attempted to draw it, and then yesterday I met her, and she's here as well, and she had her husband tattooed that illustration onto her arm. Are you going to share your tattoo? Oh, yeah, and that's sort of what happened.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Calvin. Calvin's got a question. Calvin has a question. Okay, dead silence. Calvin, what's your question? Do you think Bigfoot is mean or not that mean?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
He's a child. We're all children of the heart. I'm staying at their house tonight.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Okay, how many Bigfoot do you think could be an Argon?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So we are about to do a live show in Portland. And I'm wondering what you know about Portland or what you think when I say the word Portland to you. What does it conjure up?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Okay, one. Look, I'm running the numbers. We've got time for one more question. There were some, allegedly, some Bigfoot researchers that went missing in Oregon. Ooh. What do we know about that?
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Oh my god, this is a very brief follow-up question, which I would normally disregard, but you tattooed me earlier, so I will allow it. Do you have any knowledge of the Garth Brooks conspiracy? No, I have no knowledge of the Garth Brooks conspiracy. I will Google this after the show, and thanks for making me look like a fucking idiot at the end of the show, like I know fucking nothing.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Thank you so much, it was going so well! Thank you for coming tonight. Just a really quick thanks to Paxton Gate, who got us these beautiful taxidermied creatures. An amazing institution. Thank you. Cezarlo, the band that opened. Holy shit! Thank you. Cliff and Matthew. Holy shit! Thank you. And also local joy giver, Mike Bennett, who got me my tattoo. This Kiwi has given so much joy.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So her husband who did that tattoo, I loved him and his work, and I loved Mike's stuff, and I loved his axolotl, so they came earlier and they tattooed Mike's axolotl onto my leg.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Thank you so much for hosting us here. Amazing. And thank you for coming to the show, Calvin, Rob's mum. I hope we didn't say anything too offensive. I'm worried about that, but we'll deal with that back at the house.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
we will be outside in the lobby come and say hello if you want there's some t-shirts grab t-shirts thanks for coming you're the best I never had a rap shows up but thank you for coming thank you thank you
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
There's one more thing. Stick around for a little treat. If you listen to the podcast, you know what it is. I already showed it when you weren't here. Oh, damn. I'll show you backstage. Yeah. Okay, stick around for a little Easter egg.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Oh, it was a beautiful world.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Imagine. Why did that show end so quickly? It's my second ever tattoo, and I'm very glad to have gotten it here in beautiful Portland. What do we do next, Rob? Voodoo donuts. We had to. We had to. I mean, I love donuts. I eat them to the point of being sick at times. I've never seen someone eat donuts like you. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
You texted this morning and you're like, why is the peanut butter all over the faucet in the kitchen? And I've got peanut butter all over my hands from a peanut butter donut. We assumed it was one of the kids.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
So, had to get Rob, I mean, it's a classic gag, isn't it? Like the dick and balls. And so I thought I have to get this for Rob. And it's so funny, isn't it? Because it's like, oh yeah, he's sucking a cock, isn't he? You know, we all know it.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Yeah. So sorry. So sorry. But that is the best mum text of all time. And it is, it's big. We love books. We love books here. A very confusing store. There's so many levels and there's so many different directions you can go in. I think all you got was socks. Yeah. Yeah, I got these. They're a... I love birds. It's a woodpecker. We don't have woodpeckers in New Zealand. You have them here.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
They're a beautiful bird. That store is so fucking big. Like, what the hell? I loved it. I'm obsessed with Stephen King, so I got some Stephen King. Very happy. And I got these socks. Thanks, pals. We're a good couple, aren't we? There's Calvin in that photo. Oh yeah, there's Calvin back there. Calvin, he's a good kid. Very pure segment we've just had, us out and about in your beautiful town.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
We now enter a horrific segment of the show called Portland Man. We should start this.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Yeah, it did. I mean, people, you know, this whole thing started with Florida Man, obviously, because, you know, any time you Google Florida Man, some hideous story from Florida turns up. I think Portland, you keep up. Portland man awarded over one million after claiming his landlord stole his pet cat. This is kind of pure.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Attorney Michael Fuller, who won the case last year, the jury's message should be loud and clear to landlords. You need to respect the rights of tenants, especially when it comes to pets. It turned out that the people on the jury were also animal lovers. Basically, veterinarians found a microchip in the cat after the landlord had dropped Frank, that was a cat, off at a local shelter.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Thankfully, the microchip was in the cat, and he was returned to his original owner. But then the owner decided to sue, and thanks to this wonderful lawyer, who I spoke to on the phone earlier, I tried to get him here tonight, but he's in Alaska, probably using the earnings of this case, was awarded $1.3 million for getting that cat back. Respect. Sometimes lawyers can be really cool.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Respect to this Portland man who was arrested after police say he pointed a laser at Tesla employees inside the dealership. Do it again. Burn it all down. Police arrested a Portland man Saturday on allegations he pointed a laser inside a Tesla dealership. Police, boo, said two employees had the laser pointed at their eyes and experienced discomfort, oh no, and problems with their vision, oh no.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
That's what you get when you work at Tesla. A third employee, who had a laser pointed at his eyes days earlier, left the showroom to avoid it happening again. Davis, 27, not to be confused with David, is accused of two counts of unlawful use of a weapon. So laser pointer is a weapon here in Portland.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Two counts of attempting to commit a felony and misdemeanor charges of menacing and reckless endangerment. He has been released and he is our hero. If he's here, beers on me after the show. Thank you. Mystery Portland man leaving biohazard substance in suburban recycling bins. It's a lot of pee. There was multiple pee articles that you had put for this. So many.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
A northeast Portland neighborhood is grappling with a mystery man who left bottles and bottles of urine in their recycling bins, dropping the containers off in the middle of the night. Alex Van Duyn said that he noticed his blue recycling bin hadn't been picked up, so he went to open the blue bin. You can see what's coming. Lo and behold, there was a deposit of gallons of urine.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
And there were six gallons, Van Duyn told the outlet. He shared that the bottles are considered biohazards and won't be picked up by recycling. He said he moved the bins, but the mystery man simply put his bottles in a different bin. Although doorbell cameras have caught video of the man driving up and leaving the bottles, they haven't been able to clear a shot of the license plate.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
When he filed a police report, Van Doon said he was told it was only considered a crime because the urine was placed in the recycling bins, not the garbage bins.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Oh, I see. Dog shit in the recycling bin. That's no good. No. But not dog piss. No. That's fine. So there's apparently, like, a bizarre number of strip clubs in your city. Yeah. Always tip your strippers. But this went bad. Portland manager covering up to being stabbed by a stripper in the back four times. Just being stabbed once in the back is so intense. Four times.
Flightless Bird
Live in Portland: Bigfoot, Beavers, and the Oregon Trail
Duncan Allen has worked as a DJ at Casa Diablo Vegan Strip Club. That's confusing. Vegan? Don't understand that. For over a decade, and he said he's seen a thing or two during this time. However, never did he think he would leave work in an ambulance with stab wounds.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I have been using their eye cream at night because as a 42-year-old man, I figure, why not start looking out to my little eyes? So I've actually been finding that incredibly helpful. This is too much information, but I got really dry eyes about a month ago and I got what I like to call a scaly eye. Scaly up there. Horrible. Not at all anymore, though. It's gone.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
One skin has helped my disgusting scaly eye. And for that, I'm eternally thankful.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
That's 15% off oneskin.co with code BIRD. After you purchase, I'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Invest in the health and longevity of your skin with OneSkin. Your future self will thank you.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So, I mean, my dream with these live shows that we're doing is to end up doing a live show in New Zealand and to somehow get you and your family over there. Yeah. And I want to experience that 12-hour flight with you because it will be a trip.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Hey, for today's podcast episode, I am looking at the Goodyear blimp. And I actually go up in the Goodyear blimp over Los Angeles. I'm wondering when I say the word blimp to you, what do you think?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, so in case your in-flight entertainment isn't there, you've got the iPad. Which is more and more, like, planes don't have any screens now. I know, it's like, get your phone, hook up to the Wi-Fi, balance your phone somewhere, like, on a knee.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I still find it novel and amazing, and I kind of like that I have... limited choices it's not a netflix we've got like a 10 000 things or a million things it's like no you've got maybe 30 choices maybe two of those will be good ones and you just watch those movies is there anything um with your movie choice on a plane that differs I actually did a story when I was a journalist in New Zealand.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I did this very silly story because I had a theory that your emotions are much more heightened on a plane. And so I went and did some, talked to some doctors as far as oxygen levels on the plane and just your mindset and all of that stuff. And yeah, Yeah, cut along is very short. There are some definite triggers that make you more emotional on a plane.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And that, in my experience, makes movies so much better. So if I try and watch a really intense drama, because it will make me cry. And it's a few times that I'm like, I'm really feeling this movie. And comedies I find very funny. Everything's better on a plane.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. Like sort of a plotty drama as opposed to like an edge of your seat horror.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, I tend to watch stuff on planes that I would never watch anywhere else. And I kind of like it for that reason. Including some of the terrible choices. I watched, on a recent trip, I watched Kraven the Hunter. Terrible film. Awful.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Terrible. I've never even heard of it. No, that's the thing. We're at that point now. I think they made too much stuff.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I really like the idea of us doing a show in New Zealand. You like starve yourself to sleep beforehand. You don't do that. It doesn't work. So I don't do that anymore. Okay. But the 12 hours will be potentially, it'll be a lot. Can I knock you out with some sleeping pills? I'm going to put some sleeping pills in your, in your, in your coffee on the plane.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I will check turbulence on flights before as well. So wait, before we get onto blimps, one last thing. Is all this current news about plane crashes, is that sort of freaking you out more or you're at a certain level of freak out that you're going to just remain at for the rest of your life?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, every week, I try and find something distinctly American that I can explore. These topics either end up being sort of charming, like the American Girl episode, or they're a quick trip into hell, like when I went to an execution or had to get a rabies shot.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's like with crime. It's like if there's one crash and then there's another, you're going to hear about them more around a cluster.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Every little issue I'm getting targeted for. Oh my God. So all this said, you're probably not going to fall asleep on a blimp? No.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder, because I invited you, but you had other recordings. But I also think, did you have other recordings? Or was that just a convenient excuse?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's not a hot air balloon. One thing I did want that sort of surprised me I hadn't thought about, the Hindenburg airship was filled with hydrogen. And so have you seen footage of it? It's in the dock. You've seen footage of that thing blowing up? Yeah. So that was hydrogen. Blimps now contain helium. So that whole explosion risk doesn't exist anymore.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I mean, you don't want your blimp to catch you on fire, but it's not going to fucking explode everywhere, which was a huge relief to me. But essentially, yeah, you're floating and there's some little propellers that then very slowly put you through the air. That's basically it. But you're floating and you're just being propelled by these little propellers.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I mean, we'll get into the doc soon, but this came to be because I was basically like, what is this blimp? I know it's created in Germany, but it feels like a very American thing because it's so heavily tied into advertising. Then I saw it was a blimp's 100th year anniversary this year.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And so I thought this is the perfect cold email from like a podcast I've never heard of about like flightless birds. And yet they were just an amazing bunch of people to work with. They got back to me super, I never thought I would get on the blimp. I thought at best I would be interviewing maybe a pilot or a PR person next to the blimp. But they were cool.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
They were like, no, we can have you up there next week. And this is incredible because the public can't go on the Goodyear blimp. They give away some flights. So I was blown away by this whole thing. Figuratively and literally. Oh my God. I wish that was on purpose.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
take credit for it one thing i would say and i would be so curious now how you would react it was a really peaceful kind of non-scary thing because it was i thought you'd get kind of like buffeted in the wind and it would feel like a bit loopy because i don't love heights yeah but it felt very steady and it lifted off from the ground so gently that it just felt very safe have you been on a hot air balloon never
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, I think that was probably the first time you saw how genuinely scared of heights I am. Yeah, you were terrified. You know, that was bad. That was scary. For me with heights, it's so interesting, isn't it? For me, it's when I'm not enclosed. So the blimp is essentially like you're enclosed in there. It felt fine. If I'm out like abseiling off a cliff or what do you call it?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
But there are also episodes that are right in front of me that are so, so obvious, I just don't notice they're there. Recently, I realized every month I write out a physical check to pay my landlord or use an app like Venmo to send someone money. If you're not from America, both those things are objectively crazy things to do. And one day I'll explain why.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
When I was at school, we had to do it at school camp. If I'm doing that or if I'm on a walk up next to a big drop, nightmare in my brain.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And I think a hot air balloon, I think I would be scared because it's not enclosed. You're in a basket. Yeah, but you can jump out.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
That would be a no-go for me. Blimp enclosed... I was okay. You were in an enclosed basket under the balloon? Actually, I'm going to play the doc because this kind of takes you through the whole experience. And it was, I will say, just say it like it was a really cool thing to do. Even though the Hindenburg disaster was playing in my head the whole time.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I've dreamed about going on a blimp ever since becoming charmed by the Duff Beer blimp in The Simpsons.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
But it turns out that blimps are exceedingly difficult to get on. From what I can tell, there are only about 25 blimps left on planet Earth, and they're not exactly easy to access. Originally invented to patrol the air during World War I, the American Navy became particularly big fans during World War II. The slow, steady, and maneuverable vessel able to see what ships couldn't.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Goodyear built over 150 blimps for this exact purpose. Blimps were big. And for a while, blimps were flirted with as a form of mass public transportation too. A kind of floating magical bus. But then, the Hindenburg disaster happened. Pretty bad PR for blimps. It was May 6, 1937.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
The German blimp was carrying 97 people when it went up in flames at around 7.25pm while attempting to land in New Jersey. 13 passengers died, along with 22 crew members. That accident pretty much put an end to blimps as a form of mass transport. So my point is, here in 2025, it's really hard to get on a blimp as a member of the public.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Thankfully, it's the 100-year anniversary of the iconic Goodyear blimp, and they were game for giving me a spin. It was just after 2pm on a sunny LA day when I got to blimp headquarters. Parking the car, I saw a speck in the distance. The Goodyear blimp coming into land. I'd bought my friend Kayla, who, like me, has always wanted to go on a blimp.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Do you remember when you first became aware that a blimp in LA was a thing?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
As the Goodyear blimp came into land, I realised how weird it was. This giant mass of helium dwarfing the carriage underneath, a couple of stubby propellers off to each side, and as it landed, it all looked like it was just balancing on this one tiny wheel.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And the other day I realized I spent four years being subjected to the most bizarre, deranged medical ads on TV. Obviously, that's a whole episode. And then earlier this year, I realized another idea that's been right in front of me this whole time, or more specifically, it's been buzzing directly over my head.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
That's what I want to find out about. The more I look at the blimp, the more I realize how little I know about the blimp. Despite blimps being a part of pop culture and literally seeing it hovering in the sky at least once a month, I know next to nothing about them. And just in time, we're approached by the pilot who looks like she stepped directly out of Top Gun.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
How long have you been doing this for? How long have you been flying the Goodyear Blimp?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
There's a small, steep set of stairs you climb onto to get on board. That weighed me and Kayla earlier, needing to know exactly how much extra weight was coming on board. Adam, another pilot along for the ride, explains what's happening before we take off, or float off, or whatever the blimp terminology is.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Inside, it felt more bust than plain. I think because of the giant windows. Once you're inside, you tend to forget the near football field-sized balloon above your head. It's all just like such a foreign thing to experience, you know?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from ExpressVPN. Now, going online without ExpressVPN, it's basically like having a phone without a passcode.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
You're just basically like raw-dogging the internet without any protection, which is just ridiculous. When you have sex, you put on a condom. When you have a phone, you have a passcode. And in the same way, when you're on the internet, you should have ExpressVPN running before someone jumps on and steals all your shit.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Well, it's a theory that I think the internet, we've been using it for so long and we feel like we know what we're doing. We've sort of forgotten how unsafe it can be just like logging into a local Wi-Fi network. We're so footloose and fancy free about it. Yeah, it's all about convenience over safety. Completely. And I mean, I think of my laptop and the stuff like the passwords I have on here.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I'm talking, of course, about the Goodyear blimp, an American icon that I knew about well before I even got to America. And now here it is hovering overhead. So make sure you've got enough helium and prepare to float 1,000 to 10,000 feet above the earth, because this is the Goodyear blimp episode.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's super secure and it's very easy to use. You basically fire up the app, click on one button to connect to a country of your choice, and it will protect you and your data. And it also works on all your devices, phones, laptops, tablets, all of them.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's rated number one by top tech reviewers like CNET and The Verge and also by David Ferrier. I've used ExpressVPN for so long now. I'm very happy to be advertising it here on the show. It's something I've used for ages. It always sounds dicey when I say this, but I feel like I'm searching for a lot of dodgy stuff all the time doing my job.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And it's just nice knowing that there is a safety as well between who's watching and what I'm doing.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash bird to find out how you can get up to four extra months free. Expressvpn.com slash bird. Essentially, this blimp is a giant floating commercial, one of the main purposes of a blimp in 2025. Drones have taken over surveillance and they're not used for public transport.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So America has the DirecTV blimp, the Hood blimp, the MetLife blimp, and the most well-known blimp, the Goodyear blimp. I feel like the Goodyear blimp has hovered over most of America's big sporting events at one stage or another, from the first ever Super Bowl to the NBA Finals and the PGA Champs. And then suddenly, we're off into the air. And this blimp climbs kind of fast.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's hard to describe how this feels. It's like I've been sitting on a bus, then suddenly the bus is drifting off up into the air. We bank off left, heading towards Long Beach, the place I spent election night. I feel I like it a lot better up in the sky.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
We buzz around for about an hour. And I think I like LA a lot better from the air. Those horrible freeways suddenly look a lot more organic and interesting. The green looks greener. And a shipping yard full of massive containers looks organized and mesmerizing. Kayla did one better. What's the best thing you've seen from the sky?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
If you missed that over the blimp noises, she just said she saw a whale.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I found out a lot of things on my flight, like that there are more astronauts on planet Earth than there are blimp pilots. Maybe less people aspire to pilot a blimp than a NASA rocket or a SpaceX ego trip. Or maybe it's the fact you have to put an extra 250 hours training on top of your commercial pilot's license to even fly one. Maybe it's just the lack of blimps.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Or maybe it's those images of Hindenburg burnt into people's brains. And I learned that the Goodyear blimp can travel 117 kilometers, 73 miles a day. Finally, I learned that you can take a shit on the blimp if you're so inclined.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I won't be revealing if I use it or not. I guess I'd sum up the whole trip by saying I felt incredibly lucky to get up there in the sky on a blimp. I feel like a lot of Americans have seen the blimp, but very few have been inside. Eventually, we descend. This whole time, it's just been so incredibly calm, like we're navigating in this big floating bubble.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Back on the ground, Doc tells us how different the craft we're flying is to the first Goodyear blimp. Pilgrim back in 1925. There have been a whole bunch of different blimps since then, all basically using the same technology. But then there was this big jump in design and technology about 10 years ago.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Hey. I'm just going to check that stat that I just said about hovering 10,000 feet above. I'm just going to check that.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I'd like my time in the BMW, and I thank Doc for his time. A man whose nickname is, apparently, Sky Daddy. Before we head home, I catch up with Taylor, who'd piloted this trip. I didn't want to talk to you and distract you while you were flying, so I just... Well, I appreciate that.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Weirdest thing you've seen up there in the sky? Have you looked down and seen something and you'd be like, holy shit, look at that.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Must be something. I mean, she saw a whale today. You must have seen something, a murder or a car chase or something.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I haven't- What's the most American thing that's ever happened? Like a Goodyear blimp happening upon a televised car chase.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
The last thing I should point out before wrapping this up, it's a shocking shocker. Technically, the Goodyear blimp, it's not even a blimp. It's an airship. A blimp can be deflated at the end of the day, whereas this thing has a solid structure and frame. Tomato, tomato. I'm sticking with blimp. I flew in a blimp. The blimp didn't blow up, and I had a great day. I love the blimp. I love blimp.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
What more could this flightless bird want? so big takeaway uh huge revelation to me not a blimp it's an airship so yeah it can't be deflated it's a solid thing so you can't like deflate the thing and put it in a truck when it travel when it does big trips there has to be a road crew that travels along with it so it can land and be like docked and refueled and everything
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
How high can a blimp go? How high? I'd hate to start the show with some misinformation about blimps. Oh, yeah, I was a bit wrong. I'm saying this, this is the AI overview from Google, which I do not trust. A blimp flies between 1,000 to 7,000 feet.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I kind of, it's funny in my mind, I kind of pictured like a little, like window, a little, a little, yeah, latch. And you can sort of poke my head up. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that the gas would, I'm not a physicist. I think the gas would probably escape. Or like a bubble, a glass dome that you can like poke your head up into. Yeah. There's no access. It's, it is funny.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It is like you're on a bus and then the bus slowly just drifts off into the air. And I'm also not sure if you caught it, but one of the pilots I was talking to, his nickname was Sky Daddy, which I think is such a great name if you're a blimp pilot.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, so back in the day, and look, blimp experts, I might get some things wrong here. Originally, it was used in the wartime as basically surveillance. So blimps would go out above like Navy ships and basically patrol the air. Very quiet up there.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
well they're confusing because also like very big paint them like a cloud paint it like a cloud i'm confused i'm genuinely that's why i'm scared to talk about this i'm genuinely confused about that because like very big in the air yeah but i guess you're up high enough and they can like the idea is they can see other fleets of ships in the distance well maybe surveillance isn't catching it the same way it is an aircraft totally
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So this, that, so that was the original. Then until Hindenburg, it was used as a form of transport because it's not using a lot of fuel. Like once you've got the gas in there, you're just like quietly moving through the air with some propellers. So it's like a really efficient way of travel.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
They're not cheap. No, no, really, it is. It's an advertising thing. That's only what they do.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Employees in San Francisco. The other thing they do, occasionally, and I felt like he was tricking me when he was saying this, but I'm pretty sure it was true. One of the pilots told me, because there were three pilots on that flight, so she was piloting the plane, and then I had two male pilots who were basically just there to talk to me.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So she was doing the important work of actually flying, and these two guys were giving me interviews.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
The other thing I found out, it's a pretty even balance between female pilots of blimps and male pilots of blimps in America, which I thought was really interesting. But more astronauts than... Yeah, overall more astronauts than blimp pilots, which blew my mind.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, I should actually get the exact numbers, but definitely more astronauts. They shoot golf from up there. That's what he told me. Sometimes they shoot golf games.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. Okay. Because you can get proper like heavy broadcast cameras up there. Apparently some games are better shot via blimp than by drone. Oh, so you go production. So it's advertising and golf is pretty much it.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
No, well then saying that, breaking news since I recorded, since I was up in the blimp. So on The Guardian, this is from February 24th. The Flying Bum is the headline. Can a UK firm making huge airships finally get off the ground? This is the shape of the airship. As you can see, it looks a bit like a butt.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. So it is still basically being investigated to be a form of public transport again. So not just, well, not public transport, you know, the public can pay to be transported again.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I was in the range, yeah, okay. You went a little high, though. I went a little high, but it's not crazy. I was just checking I wasn't like 9,000 feet out. Yeah, yeah. A bit of housekeeping. Yes, before we get into blooms. The feedback continues to blow my mind. People are writing in kind of essays about what certain things mean to them. And it's just really cool to get.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, I think public transport is much cheaper and must be subsidized by taxes.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So this isn't public transport. It's a form of transport. It's a privatized corporation. For profit. So just the first paragraph of this article. It's a dreary day in Bedford, but on a flight simulator, the skies above San Francisco Airport are blue and the wind is low. That is a good thing because there is an amateur at the joystick of the world's biggest aircraft.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
The flight simulator models trips by the Air Lander 10, which is part airship, part airplane. If all goes to plan for its designer, hybrid air vehicles, HAV, Two dozen of these will be built each year from 2030 at a factory in Doncaster, South Yorkshire. So, they might be coming back.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
You can. Yeah, so no, one thing I said to the pilots was like, Like, do you get buffeted by like high winds and stuff? Apparently all that's like pretty fine in a blimp. It's like, I think it's big enough. And again, I feel like I'm probably talking shit right now, but like from what they sort of told me, it's not like it blows away. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Like they're doing long distances and it's pretty solid and it is very safe.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. No, I mean, you're under the clouds. So, no, I guess you'll get hit by... I mean, to be honest, these are things that I don't know, but they're trying to bring it back and good on them. I guess you're not dealing with engines and stuff. It's much slower, so that's probably safer.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It takes a long time. Yeah. Speaking of safety, I did make a few notes about possibilities of why the Hindenburg blew up, if you want to hear those.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
At the end of this episode, we've got some really compelling feedback from the prisons episode and the focus on the family episode, which both seem to resonate with people who had a lot of personal stories about it. So as always, if you have feedback, it's flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com. And we have a YouTube channel, which is youtube.com slash at flightlessbirdpodcast, if you want to watch us.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Not blimps. No, just the Goodyear blimp is 100 years old. This is my nightmare. It's just questions about the topic.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
1852 was the first steam-powered hydrogen balloon airship with steering.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's probably in there somewhere. No, it's not. That was the first steam-powered hydrogen balloon airship. But that's an airship. That's not a blimp.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
well but we're talking airships not blimps this episode we are technically this is the airship episode what is a blimp a blimp is has to be blown up so it's like a soft shell it's a balloon that you blow up and there's not many of those around most of them now are like fixed structures got it hindenburg Theories of why it blew up. Number one, static electricity.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Hugo Eckner, who was the manager of Zeppelin during World War I and World War II, he argued that the fire was started by an electric spark, which was caused by a buildup of static electricity. That's theory one. Sabotage, theory two, it's been suggested that Hitler himself ordered the Hindenburg to be destroyed in retaliation for Hugo's anti-Nazi opinions.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Nice to know that the manager of the Zeppelin was a Nazi hater. Lightning, A.J. Dressler, former director of the space science lab at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center and a critic of what some of the other theories favors a much simpler explanation, lightning.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, bad. But again, because it was filled with... Yeah, hydrogen and helium. Or engine failure. So those are your four main theories, in case you wondered why that blew up. We still don't know exactly why. I go for the Hitler theory.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
No, I didn't use it. Because the pilot and you are all in the same space. So if I was going to use that, I guess I was going to wee. I wouldn't smell, would I?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
No, I think if you're going to use a toilet, you need to use it for the full experience and do a number two. That's my theory with using a toilet.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
about an hour you should have peed in it just to pee in it i just felt bad i felt bad because you're like it's so public it's like you know if you're at a restaurant and the toilet is right there and you have to walk past all the patrons it wasn't closed it was enclosed though yeah but the door is right there so you go in there everyone in that blimp including the three pilots and my friend would know what i was doing
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
You're walking by everyone. I think it's because there were less people. And I was one-fifth of that. Wait, one, two, three. I was one-fifth of the people on board. And it was just too... For me to go to the loo, it was just too obvious. It was too much.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. I just don't want people to know. You know? Yeah. It's like when you go to the supermarket. Is that what you call it here? The supermarket. And you just buy toilet paper. It's like they know what you're going to be doing. And I feel seen. So I'll always buy extra things. Like Vaseline.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
We also have two live shows coming up. We need people to buy tickets to these. Yeah, yeah, buy some tickets. We're in Portland on April 13th, and we are in San Francisco on April 18th. In the show notes for this episode, there'll be ticket links there, or just check my Instagram. I've got in my profile, I have the links there.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And you're like, I'm going to go in here. And you shut the door. And they're just outside the door. They all know where the fifth person has gone. You know there's people sitting like four feet from the bathroom on the plane. Yeah, but there's like 300 of them. Like there's 300 people on that plane.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Somehow that is less offensive and less weird than you being just like one-fifth of the crew stepping in there. Do you know what I mean? I don't. If you had a bathroom in your car, it would be like, if I go rock, I'm going to take a shit.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
We're not talking shit. If I was going to wee in your car, it would be the same thing. You're right there. There's only a few of us, and I would feel incredibly self-conscious. If we were on a tour bus...
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
But the new providers are basically providing inedible meals and non-halal meals to Muslim students and that kind of thing. And the prime minister just said, if you don't like the meals, then you can make your kids a Marmite sandwich.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Desperate. That's my whole thing. Even like an eight hour stretch? Even a wee. Eight hour different. Again, time comes into it. Does it? We're up there for, in my calculus, it does. We were up there for, I'd say, between 45 minutes to an hour.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, and I think if it was an eight-hour blimp ride, I would feel less self-conscious about using the bathroom. It's almost like you're rubbing it in their face if you do it, like, 45 minutes up in the air and you're weeing. I just think it's not the one.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Is my argument making any sense at all Of why I didn't want to like wee or poo On the Goodyear blimp There are elements to it that make sense Duration, number of people Number of passengers Your relationship to each of them And the space Within the blimp I would have had no problem 15 minute ride You're straight on there You're straight on there
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Another issue that is raised that some people bring up, and I guess this is valid, there is a helium shortage on planet Earth at the moment.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
You can't just make more helium. Liquid helium, this is from this NBC article. The world is running out of helium. Here's why doctors are worried. Liquid helium, the coldest element on Earth, is needed to keep the magnets in MRI machines running. Without it, doctors could lose a critical medical tool. Helium has been a volatile commodity for years.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
This is especially true in the U.S., where a Texas-based federal helium reserve is dwindling. as the government tries transferring ownership to private markets. So that's another challenge that UK-based firm will have. Just use a bunch of this life-saving helium that doctors are using? Yeah, fly this blimp, like, kill a thousand people or something. You know, that's, yeah.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So the helium thing is an issue. And then you can't fill it up with hydrogen because you might get another Hindenburg disaster. Did you have to wear a seatbelt or anything? There was a seatbelt there. We had to wear it for takeoff. And then the rest of it, we're just wandering around the blimp. Just like you are on an aircraft. And landing. And landing. Yeah. I didn't put mine on for landing.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I was naughty. Bad to the bone. Sometimes on planes, I don't do it as well. I'm like, it's my rebellion. Don't tell me what to do. Sometimes I pretend it's like clipped in, but it's not.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. Yeah. We want to litter the set with taxidermied birds. Live birds, never a good idea. Taxidermied birds, perfect. Yes. And yeah, lots of great topics being emailed in about things you want us to cover. So keep those coming in. I feel like just from those emails, I'm learning more about these cities than I ever knew before. So that's kind of great.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Because you're picturing yourself being flung through the air all the time. Um, all in all, uh, I would say the blimp was a strong nine out of 10. The only reason I'm taking off a point is because as I said, when you're on there, the bathroom, I actually added 10 bathrooms, roll them.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And just the fact when you're on there, you don't see like, it's almost more impressive being on the outside of the blimp, looking up at this huge thing when you're actually in the blimp. You don't see the balloon. So it's just like you're on a little weird bus.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Nine and a half. Who am I? It's a 10 out of 10. I've been on a blimp. It was 10 out of 10. I'm one of very few people that has been on a blimp, and I do feel crazy lucky to have done it.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Oh, it's crazy. It's so rare. 47 active astronauts at NASA and then however many SpaceX has as well. Probably a lot. It is a rare thing to be a blimp pilot and all the blimp pilots I talked to on that flight were frigging cool. including Sky Daddy.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I've talked to most of the blimp pilots in America in that one story, which is kind of insane when you think about it. Any other blimp facts you'd like to know? I can fire up Google over here and find out. No, I think... If I fucked up any of the blimp facts, email flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Let's interview all 17 blimp pilots in America. Let's cover them all. Let's turn this into a blimp podcast. This is now specifically about blimps. All right, I'm going to go into some feedback. Will wrote in about our prisons episode. I wanted to bring up something that struck me as odd when I spent a weekend in county jail for a DUI back in 2013.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Brackets, I'm sober now and doing much better, which is awesome. Upon entering my pod, I was given some items like toiletries and sandals, all of which were Bob Barker branded. The guy from The Price is Right. Bob Barker bendy toothbrush. Bendy so he couldn't harm himself or others with it, a Bob Barker Bendy pen, and Bob Barker rubber sandals. What? This blew my mind.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Is this like a charity that Bob Barker... These are all great questions that I do not know the answer to. Or he's making money off of... I assume he is making money off them, some kind of deal with the prison system, or certainly the county jail that this guy was in.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I know nothing. I have zero connection to Bob Barker. I don't know what kind of person he is, or is he like a loved American icon? Yeah, I mean, yeah. Is he a big deal?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Right. I guess it's good they have a toothbrush, right? It's good he got a toothbrush. It's good he got little sandals. And it's good he got a bendy pen.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, that would be wild if that was... If you know anything more about this, why Bob Barker is sponsoring certain prison items, flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com. Seth wrote in saying, when you were talking to Bianca about how certain things can be legal in one area and then illegal 100 feet down the road, David followed that conversation up with a disclaimer saying that she didn't mean literally.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Actually, I love... I don't know why this is funny to me. I just love... Like feedback that's so clear. Actually, she can mean quite literally what she said. Laws will be different within a matter of a couple of hundred feet or a few miles. I was arrested about 10 years ago in Michigan for possessing less than three grams of cannabis.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
At the time, different cities had different laws on the legality of the substance. I lived in Grand Rapids and weed was to criminalize there. So it was only a $10 fine if you got caught with it.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I, however, was arrested in the town over in Granville and was smacked with a year of probation, three months of alcohol and drug classes, 80 hours of community service, and about $4,500 in court fees and lawyer costs. Two years later, after I had been off probation for about a year, Michigan legalized cannabis entirely. So yeah, that 100 feet thing, technically true. Amelia wrote in,
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Prison in America is weird, and so it's been fascinating to me. You might like my personal connection to all this. When I was in high school, 11th grade, I was taking a sociology class. One of the intrigues of this class was a field trip to a local max security prison. My teacher and maybe one other adult took 20 or so 16 to 18 year olds to a max security prison.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, and you live there, so you'll potentially know more than we do.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And we sat in a large room with maybe six to eight inmates and just talked to them for probably an hour. The main guy of note who we met was Thomas Junta, the hockey dad. Look him up. I did look him up. Have you heard of this guy? No.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Thomas Junta was an American hockey dad from Reading, possibly Reading, Massachusetts, who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in 2002 after his attack on Michael Koston led to Koston's death. Koston was the informal referee of a pickup hockey game involving the men's sons.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
The attack and the fight, which ensued, was witnessed by about a dozen children, including Junta's son and Koston's three sons. So basically a case of a parent getting upset with a referee.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So back to Amelia's letter in regards to visiting Junta in prison. One of my classmates harassed him a little, put the teacher on edge. That's how she ended the email. Just imagine these kids, like, taunting.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
You know what you're doing. You do. No, so someone just being... I just imagine this teacher getting very stressed out. Yeah. You also don't know what harass him a little means, whether it was, like, poking fun or just, like, giving him the finger or something. Yeah. Anyway, I just thought that was an interesting class activity to do. Raven. Great name. She wrote in.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
She was a senior in high school, and they also had a field trip to the closest jail. This was in Ohio.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I think it's essentially like scaring you straight is part of it. Yeah, like, don't do this, or you could end up here. As a high school teacher myself, I'm not really sure why it was appropriate to take 17-year-olds to see a jail. Oh, this is about to answer our question. I think it had to do with Beyond Scared Straight, which was a big thing at that moment in time.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
However, this was an extremely special year for the program due to the fact one of our classmates in a class of 66 kids was at this jail. Jeez. Not only was he in jail when we got there, but we saw him. Worst of all, he was in maximum security. The summer prior to senior year, he robbed a gas station with a knife and got 10 years.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It was really upsetting due to the fact that a lot of us knew him well and we could see that he felt really embarrassed. Again, why the fuck did teachers agree to go into this jail specifically this year, potentially having their students see their fellow classmate? Yeah, that's rough. And she also mentioned that in Ohio, that's where the Shawshank Redemption prison is, where they shot that.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, if we go back again, I'm definitely going underground like a mole. So yeah, cool things like that. And the other thing, just quickly, we've done this once before on the show, a thing called Flights of Fancy. And basically, in these Flights of Fancy episodes, we want to give you a chance to call up and to talk to you about pitching an idea for the show.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And apparently they have a big metal festival every year called Ink Carceration, because it's also a tattoo fest. And I see that I think Slipknot is playing. Okay, Courtney wrote in, in regards to what we mentioned in the Prisons episode about watching and studying movies in school. She says she's shocked that Rob's education didn't include movies he had to write papers on.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
For context, I'm 40, graduated from high school in 2002, grew up in New Hampshire, went to public high school. In classes, I had to write papers about the following, the 1960s Romeo and Juliet versus Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo DiCaprio. I had to pick out specific scenes from Monty Python and the Holy Grail and write papers about why they were funny.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
In physics, we had to watch The Thing and write short essays, but I can't remember what about. And I'm sure we watched Swing Kids in history.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
No, we were talking high school. Yeah, this is wild. A lot of people wrote in basically saying you missed out on a really important part of schooling, which was just sitting on your butt watching cool movies.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Barbara wrote in about our prison episode, and we talked a lot about prison break, and we got stuck into True Blood, which some people found highly offensive.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
No, we've got to get in there. Barbara says, when discussing movies, you need to be specific. True Blood, with Anna Paquin, that's 2008. The True Blood most people relate to is 1989. Same goes for Prison Break 1938. Is that the one you're speaking of?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
We're talking about White Lotus, the 2025 season. Just quickly, a lot of people also are still writing in on our Focus on the Family app because apparently a lot of listeners knew exactly what we're talking about. Our sex ed teacher told us that God slash Jesus slash the Holy Spirit was with us even in our most intimate moments with our future wives.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And that is why when we get an interaction, it points up to heaven to remind us that God is here too.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
When you get an erection, you're pointing your cock at Jesus. Really good. America? You're an interesting place. And I am fascinated.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
This is about the only thing, only because of America exporting your ideas to us. That is about the only thing I remember from all of grade seven. It's wild to think back to that time in my life. Alan wrote in, my family would listen to Adventures in Odyssey tapes on eight-hour road trips out to Colorado to visit the Focus on the Family headquarters in Colorado Springs.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
My parents also chose to discipline their children using Dobson's principles, and it was deeply traumatic for me and my siblings. It's been incredibly helpful for me during my healing journey to learn about where these terrible ideas came from. So thanks for that, Alan. Becca wrote in saying, I was recently informed there's a spicy fan fiction version of VeggieTales called Pounded by Produce.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Sarah on Focus on the Family wrote in with a really good point. She's a mum. I didn't hear from anyone involved in Focus on the Family currently. They still exist? They do. Very much so. Colorado Springs, huge compound, hugely influential still.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
focus on the family oh yeah if you can write in and sort of explain yourself why you explain yourself to me i would love that yeah we'll do a follow-up episode sarah said i think it would be a kind thing for you to acknowledge that most parents are just doing the best they can and that can be difficult for exhausted young parents to know if they're getting bad advice from an expert
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
As you said in your episode, Dobson had an agenda. Many well-intentioned parents were conned into following his advice. I hope any parent who listened to the episode can give themselves grace if they parented in Dobson's way. And if they heard this episode, they may discover why their relationship with their adult child is rough.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Or a young adult listener just realized that that parent was guided by Dobson's methods. Maybe this episode will be a catalyst for healing a tense parent-child relationship.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
that's a very good point it is yeah and hopefully yeah i think hopefully parents of this and they're not like feeling guilted out they just like have some realization of where those ideas came from and can be a bit more open and kids can give their parents some slack if they were raised in a slightly weird thing because a weird way because i think a lot of parents that latched on to this were just trying to do their best
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Completely. They weren't reading a book like how to be a shitty abusive parent.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Beth wrote in about her parents following Dobson's Focus on the Family playbook. Secular music was out of the question. I had memories of my mum preparing me for my life as a housewife, letting me know that I would have to accept that my future husband would have ultimate rule over our home and my life.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
All the book titles you mentioned sounded familiar, especially Life on the Edge, which my parents definitely forced me to read. I was recently visiting my family in Colorado Springs and helping my dad with a charity event. Much to my distress, I found out as I arrived at the event to help set the Up is being held at Focus on the Family headquarters. It's a bisexual progressive atheist I am.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Today it felt like I was about to burst into flames just crossing the thresholds of that creepy place. Oh, this was a good tidbit that came in. Morgan wrote in, Focus on the Family created a movie reviewing system that you should be aware of called PluggedIn. This website is essentially a conservative Christian parent's dream and even goes through and counts every curse word in every film.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So they basically, I've just opened this up, pluggedin.com. So it has like a normal little review and then it says it's got positive elements, a little section there, spiritual elements, sexual and romantic content. By my count, there are 22 sex scenes in this movie. 22 sex scenes in The Wall Street? Mm-hmm.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
yeah so not just something you think is interesting and want to hear about the perfect example i think in the last time we did this was we heard from someone that had helped train navy dolphins so that actually like being in the world of the dolphins for like a couple of years training them that's the perfect kind of link we had an incredible um post office worker write in about his job so it's it's those personal links we're looking for
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
But in brackets, it's admittedly difficult to tally since sometimes it's hard to tell when one ends and another begins.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Among many, many other things, oral sex is graphically merged with other sex acts involving a threesome. It's also given screen time in settings that are public and within the confines of a moving vehicle involving the driver. It just gets so specific. A post-orgie scene revels in the reveler's nudity. Sexual fondling. Anyway, it goes on and on. Violent content. Crude or profane language.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Just keep aware that someone is watching this. Yeah, just telling. And counting. A handful more than 525 are F-words. They're words, not mine. With some used sexually and others getting combined with mother. In brackets, it's the most F-words plugged in has ever counted in a movie and is being reported as the most F-words in any mainstream non-documentary movie ever made.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
That's the doc they're referring to. Add to that 70 plus S words. That's shit, if you're wondering. 35 to 40 misuses of God's name. 10 or so paired with D dash dash N. Oh, God damn. Nearly 25 abuses of Jesus' name. About 20 crude references to the male anatomy, including... It's all blanked out. Cock.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
that they're documenting it so intensely it's like a handbook if one of if someone wants to go and no edit completely the person that wrote in telling me about this saying is that's how they used it basically to find the gnarliest horror films to watch and so that they would watch them but there's so many curse words that are blanked out on the side it's actually hard to know what they are what is a okay this is a game
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Okay. So I got there eventually. Oh my God. The music, they've got apaté. They've got that Bruno Mars, Rosé song. Let's see what they say about that. This, okay. I recommend this website to anyone. Pluggedin.com. Positive content. None. None. Content concerns for Apatay. The chorus of the track, which is what the dance is based on, is a repetition of Korean word apartment or apatay.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
That's innocuous enough without context. But as Rosé explained on Jimmy Fallon in December of 2024, apartment is actually a Korean drinking game. The balance of the song is silly gushing flirtation. and mildly suggestive, kissy face, kissy face, sent to your phone, but I'm trying to kiss your lips for real, Rosé sings with a playful pout. It's so specific. Later she adds, don't you want me...
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Like I want you baby, don't you need me like I need you now, sleep tomorrow but tonight go crazy. The most problematic lyric comes from Bruno Mars, who embraces excess at a spontaneous apartment party. Turn this epitaph into a club, I'm talking drink, dance, smoke, freak, party or night. The video for the song features just two artists performing it together.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Rosé wears short shorts and a midriff bearing top. This is funny shit, man. It goes on and on as well. So yeah, if you want some entertainment and you want a incredibly conservative take on a movie or a TV show.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
But yeah, plugged in, it's still going. I thought maybe they'd stop reviewing, but it's a wild site. So I'm very appreciative to know about that, Morgan. Thanks. writing in do they rank any movies they like I feel like no it's all it's all like just it's a breakdown of anything yeah it's a breakdown of filth It's sort of almost written in an unusual way.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. Great. Yeah. So in things that you might've been listening to the show and just being like, why are Dave and Rob not talking about this thing that I know so much about and I desperately want to hear talked about. If you're that person, then this is a perfect show for you.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's just basically lists sort of not even watching the movie. It's just kind of watching. Do I see a short skirt? Do I see like hear a swear word?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. It's kind of almost neutral in that way, but it's coming from that perspective that any mainstream media is inherently evil because it has something bad in it. God, that's a good sign. Yeah. Okay, a few more. Lachlan wrote in about fake seizure guy.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I had an experience at some point between 2012 and 2017 where a man on a busy peak hour tram had a seizure and asked me to get on top of him and apply pressure. I didn't think much of it at the time besides embarrassment, but over the years I heard some stories.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Thanks to your podcast, I've lodged a Crimestoppers police report over the weekend and am providing some relevant info to them at the moment. Kayla wrote in, in regards to the Fake Seizure Guy episode, saying, you need to look into Tunnel Girl. And of course, as someone who grew up loving tunnels, I'm thinking this could be my girl.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Her name is Carla, but she's better known as Tunnel Girl and has amassed over 600,000 followers on TikTok by documenting herself digging a tunnel under her house. As far as I can tell, the only reason she's given for it is because it's challenging and fun. Might be an interesting topic. So yeah, Tunnel Girl. Where does she live? Don't know. Somewhere in America, I think, according to this person.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
If you are Tunnel Girl or you know Tunnel Girl... Can you please write to me personally? No, flightthisbirdchat at gmail.com. I would love to talk to you.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It was always China. It just had to be. Yeah, I think growing up in the West, China was this place that was the furthest away. It's like mysterious land.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's just a stupid Western thing to say, I think. It's a really good question, though. Something else I actually saw raised is like a universal weird thing I hadn't thought about. And I'm wondering if it was in America. When you were a kid, did dog poos, like dog shits on the lawn, were they white? Do you remember when dog poos used to be white? I don't recall. So in New Zealand. Bird poops white.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's something to do with the dog's diet, I think, and what they were being fed. Maybe like wet food versus kibble or something. But in New Zealand, every kid has a memory. If you're my age, like in your 40s, when you're a kid, There'd be white dog poos on the lawn.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It could be. I'm worried now. If you know anything about this white dog poo thing I'm talking about, fight this bird chat at gmail.com. Maybe it didn't happen in America. Maybe it was just in New Zealand.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Finally, Diego and about a thousand other people wrote in saying, How many people tagged you in that video of Kate Bunchett discussing leaf blowers? Have you seen this?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And I'll also put that in my profile and my links on Instagram and a few other places. And show notes. And the show notes. I only discovered this about a year ago. Every podcast, if you click in the right place on whatever app you're on, the hosts usually type out a synopsis and add a whole lot of links to whatever they've talked about in the show.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah. So it's this really fun, he's either TikToker or an Instagrammer. His whole shtick is he interviews people on the subway in New York. He always has really fun conversations, but Kate was on there and her whole social media clip was her just very clearly going through why she hates leaf blowers. It was so compelling and so good. And yes, I have seen it.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And for Americans that might not know what Marmite is, what is Marmite?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And I support it, and it's just great to have more people behind the cause.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
We'd love to have you on the show. You're clearly as passionate as I am, and I would love to hear from you. Yeah, Leaf Blowers Part 3. I think it's about time. I had a friend as well say to me that apparently there was an art duo in maybe New York, and one of their video installations is... I think they videoed it and played it in the gallery.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
They blew a leaf between like a couple of States, like one leaf with a leaf blower. So I want to find out more about that as well. If you're the art duo, fight the spread challenge. Uh, thanks. I'm just wanting answers. I'm not using the email as like, instead of Googling things, I think, which is bad. I've become my own. I've become like what I hate. I just need to Google all of that shit.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Like people write in great things. That's the feedback. That's the show. Do you have anything else, Rob, that you want to share? Any other final thoughts about blimps?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It's a peaceful drifting sensation. Is it loud? It's steady. Steady. It's like... That's not an answer, is it? It's like... Like that. It's like you have to talk loudly at certain moments because those little propellers are going. Yeah, yeah. It's not like a glider where it's like nothing. And it's maybe a bit louder than a commercial flight. Because it's shaky?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Is everything like... No, it's smooth. Smooth. Okay. Very smooth. I think I could do a blimp. I think you could do it. If I go up again, I'm bringing you... When we interview the...
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I'll hop on one of those. Do email in with any feedback, flightlessbreadchat at gmail.com. Tickets for those live shows on sale, Portland, April 13th, San Francisco, April 18th. Come along, say hello, and we'll see you next week.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
And each week, Rob and I do that and we write it out there. And there's some good stuff in there. Yeah, mostly David. Yeah, Rob gets in there and fixes my bad spelling mistakes. So yeah, it would be lovely to hear from you. And yeah, those live shows, Portland April 13th and San Francisco on April 18th.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Come along. We'll have some t-shirts you can buy and we'll be there afterwards to say hello after the show. If you want to give us a high five.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
now blimps uh but also marmite oh marmite yes um do you have you heard of vegemite yeah i've heard of it one thing i've ever had it though so i don't like marmite a vegemite is as hayden described it's like a brown sludge it's like peanut butter no no no no it's a very specific taste i have a jar of vegemite at home which i will bring in marmite is like the competitor if you like vegemite
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
You'll taste Marmite and you'll be like, yuck. I imagine you that's never tasted either of those things before, you would try both Marmite and Vegemite and probably be like, what the hell is this?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
It sounds like a very American reaction from the Prime Minister of New Zealand.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So Nutella, sweet, peanut butter, crunchy, tastes like peanuts.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Okay, so it's made from leftover brewer's yeast extract with various vegetable and spice additives. And it looks like this on bread. Brown sludge. So, yeah, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, everyone kind of turned on him when he suggested, hey, kids, you know, if you don't have lunch, why don't you just put some Marmite on toast?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
hello hi hayden how are you really good thank you what's happening in new zealand today uh the prime minister so we have the school lunch program and they contracted it out the new government contracted it out to some kind of low cost private providers saying that the old government was spending too much on it.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Yeah, he's just like, you know, so we fucked up. You do it, Ben. I just think you need to extend that logic to everything else that's not working. Like the health system's kind of in crisis. Like, well, you want to receive medical care, then get a first aid certificate. It's really just like, this is your fault that we're fucked up. Why don't you fix it? It's a real attitude that... It is.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Which is pretty dismissive of kids' diets, as much as I love that kind of paste on bread. Blimps. Blimps. Would you have any emotional reaction? Because this was one of those topics that I've looked up in the air. I've been with you, I think, and looked up in the air and seen the blimp and been like, look, it's the Goodyear blimp. I think I've only seen it once. I see it all the time.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Is it specific to LA, the Goodyear blimp? There are three of them, and they're not all in LA. But one of them is, there is a big base here, which I went to visit. And yeah, there's three blimps. Blimps in general, like what do you, like mine was always, I think of the Hindenburg disaster. Is that what came to your mind when you think blimp?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
great to me if i was gonna put you on a small aircraft like a single engine aircraft you know we can fit you know five people on board a helicopter a blimp or a balloon What would be your least favorite? Oh, least favorite? Yeah, or least, and then best.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I've been on some flights with you and it's definitely, you're all good, but you can definitely sense that you're calming yourself down before a flight. Do you know where that comes from or has it just always been a thing? It wasn't always a thing. There was a certain age where it became a thing. Do you have any concept of why?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Had you seen a news story about a plane crash or just thought about it more?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
That's how I feel on a roller coaster once that strap is down over you. And it's like that same feeling.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I'm very scared of a lot of things, including death, and we've talked about this. Weirdly with flying, I don't get that scared, and I don't know why it is, and I don't want to think about it too much in case it triggers me being scared. But because I've done so many flights between New Zealand, and New Zealand is so far away, you end up on a lot of 12-hour kind of flights.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I've had that thing where you get up to wee in the middle of the night, you've been flying for six hours. And it struck me a few times, especially when there's like a little window in the urinal on a plane. You're just up there and you're just, you're sort of in, I don't know, it's like being in purgatory or something. You're nowhere and you can't get off. And it feels deeply unnatural.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I get the physics of how planes fly, but also they're very heavy. I think of how heavy my bag is that I've packed and multiply that by like 300 people. That feels bad. I get a moment of being like, this isn't good. But then I finish peeing and go back and try and sleep, you know? Yeah. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Support for Flightless Bird comes from Quince. Rob, you like clothes. You're a fan of clothes?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
We've been in a hot tub. We had shorts on. Yeah. Well, maybe that can be the next step. In the meantime, let's cover ourselves in Quince. I have a number of their items, and I like it because with Quince, I can get high-end, versatile pieces at prices I can actually afford, which is very important to me.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So I can upgrade my style by snagging killer luxury essentials that sync with my vibe and my wallet.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I think it comes from that, right? Because they're like, the government shouldn't be providing for you. They kind of resent having to do it at all. It just was such bad PR to scrap lunches for poor children. So they decided to keep it going in this kind of the worst possible state. And now it's going bad.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
The best part of all this, all Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands, which is a pretty significant price difference. And by partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
I have one of their puffer jackets, which keeps me warm when it is cold in LA. Like this week, it has been frigging freezing. And I've got a bunch of shorts from them. Indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quince.com slash bird for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash bird to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash bird.
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
Support for flightless bird comes from one skin. Now, as the seasons change, so do your skin's needs. Shifts in the weather can leave your skin feeling irritated, tight and dry, especially if, like me, you have sensitive skin or conditions like eczema. But what if your skincare routine could help calm your skin and reverse the signs of cellular aging at the same time?
Flightless Bird
Goodyear Blimp
So whether you have seasonal sensitivity or year-round irritation, OneSkin soothes and carbs your skin while helping it become younger and healthier at the cellular level. And for a limited time, you can get an exclusive 15% off your first OneSkin purchase with code BIRD when you check out at OneSkin.co.
Flightless Bird
The Cheesecake Factory
Okay, so I think the only thing I know about the Cheesecake Factory is from like half listening to you talk about it.
Flightless Bird
The Cheesecake Factory
Well, I think most of the time I'm only half listening to you. Fair. Is it kind of like P.F. Chang's?
Flightless Bird
The Cheesecake Factory
Yeah. Cheesecake Factory. I mean, Factory makes it sound like there's a lot of food. So, yeah. So they started with cheesecake and then just made some other food because they got insecure or what?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Where I grew up in New Zealand, we didn't have Blockbuster. We had Video Easy and United Video. And there was a little adults only section. And I never went. I don't think I ever went in. Even when I was old enough to go in, I didn't go in. Did you ever go in?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I always feel like it's the opposite. I feel like when I'm looking on streaming, it feels like an endless scroll. Whereas my memory of a video store was you would be an end, like a physical end to the aisle. And you felt like I've done that aisle. I know it's all there. Whereas I feel with Netflix, sometimes I'm like, and it's always shifting.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah, that thing of an unknowable destination. And it's like an effort to get there.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Sorry, I was identical. And I used to take ordering my music very seriously when I had a PC on my hard drive. Having everything there, knowing exactly where it was, that was very special to me.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Helix. Now, we are recording this episode and these ads at 10.01pm on a Wednesday night. And I love hanging out with you, but I'm secretly looking forward to just lying down on my Helix mattress.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
No, no, I want to lie down. You know when you get to a certain time of the day, it's like, I want to lie down. And I love lying down in a bed that I actually love sleeping in. Very happy to have my Helix.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, I'm incredibly grateful for that because I needed a bed for one thing. Now I have the mattress and my back genuinely is doing the best it's ever done. And I'm incredibly grateful for that. Because, yeah, you need a mattress that's going to support you, and I am a side sleeper and a back sleeper.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I have a Midnight Luxe mattress, which is tailored for back and side sleepers like me, and it does me really well. So, yeah, go to helixsleep.com slash bird for 27% off site-wide and free bedding bundle. There's a sheet set and mattress protector with any Luxe or Elite mattress order.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Actually, do you remember that what was the first time you saw pornography? Do you have like a memory of that? You know what? I don't. I really don't. Too long ago.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Support for Flightless Bird comes from ExpressVPN. Now, going online without ExpressVPN is like leaving a laptop unattended at the coffee shop while you run to do your business in the bathroom, which I've done a couple of times and it feels horrible. And the whole time I'm weeing, I'm just worried that someone is running off with my stuff.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Basically, every time you connect to an unencrypted network in cafes, hotels, airports, that kind of thing, your online data is not secure. Any hacker on the same network can gain access and steal your personal data, like your passwords, bank logins, credit card details, all that stuff that you store on your devices.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, Calvin's probably going to be doing that stuff soon. No, he would never. ExpressVPN stops hackers from stealing your data by creating a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet. I use ExpressVPN. I was using this product before we started advertising it. I do a lot of online investigative work, and sometimes it's very handy to say, hey, I'm not in America.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I am in New Zealand right now, or I'm in Australia. You can flick around the globe as well, depending on where you connect to, and that can be incredibly handy.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And it works on all of your devices, phones, laptops, tablets, and more, so you can stay secure on the go.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash bird to find out how you can get up to four extra months free.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I was thinking of something that, and I don't know if you had the same experience, but the first time I ever went on a plane was, I think, my first early experience of what streaming would become. Because my first plane ride, it was like, oh my God, the back of the seat has a screen and it has all these movies.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And I didn't clock this actually until I talked to Hayden because he was talking about this as well. But that was like the first experience of being, holy shit. this is an infinite, even though it was probably like 20 films or something.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I always feel ripped off when I do that. I know. I always feel ripped off. I'm like, why did I pay that?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Cause that gets into a bigger discussion as well of like, I see no excitement in owning a digital movie. Cause like if the service changes, that's all going to vanish. Like it's so different to me to like owning a Blu-ray or a DVD back in the day or a VHS. We'll get to that in a bit.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, I feel like there wasn't... I don't remember being told off for not rewinding. But I know it was polite to rewind a VHS.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Oh, that's great. So in a way, you'd be kind of hoping some stuff they didn't have because you could save a rental fee.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I remember a few times there was the wrong tape or the wrong disc in the back. You'd get home and be like...
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And I guess before Blockbuster, I assume that there were smaller rental places that were trying to do well, and then I imagine Blockbuster kind of wiped a lot of those out, or took them over, I imagine, except for those stores you were talking about, which did well with alternate titles.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
The other thing that was big in New Zealand is that for a while you could rent video game consoles. So like the Sega Mega Drive 2, when that came out, it was a lot of money, but I'd pull in with friends and we'd go in there straight out to school at 3.30. We'd basically like rent a unit. You could get, I think, maybe two games there. So I think Flashback was a really big one. Alien 3 was huge.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And you just like play that all weekend and then drop it off. I think it may be Sunday night. And then we go to school on Monday and just be absolutely exhausted. But so, so happy. I don't think they did councils. I think you could buy them. You'd get them in these big, like massive plastic cases, all padded on the inside. You'd walk out with like what looked like a giant gun case. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That was a very bougie thing to do. I mean, I do remember the game rentals being a big thing.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That was the best feeling in the world. And I remember going to school and just being in class and fantasizing about that game. Just imagining playing it. I don't know, I assume kids get that with games they're playing wherever they're playing them. Like Fortnite, a kid addicted to Fortnite... Probably had the same passion that I had for Quake and Descent and Doom and all that stuff.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Way more like point system and earning rewards and having to like buy certain things.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, we get a load of emails into flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com. Some are long, some are short, and in the mix, I sometimes start to see patterns, specific ideas that a lot of people seem to have a passion for. Here's one such email from Catherine.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Just that title sequence when that game started. We're dating ourselves so badly here right now.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
The other thing that would happen sometimes when it got to DVDs, you'd get a disc and it would start skipping. Yes, the damaged DVD. Yeah, because people are thrashing these things. And at key points, I remember... What was it? It was like a Terminator film. Maybe Terminator 2. I remember getting that on DVD and it just like...
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
See, we're getting way too specific here, but I think both of us still have DVDs, right, that were from our childhood. I have them all in storage back in New Zealand, and I'm like, I pack them away safely. They hold personal value to me because they're memories, plus also monetary value that I invested back in the day, even though it's worth nothing.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I decided to invest heavily in DVDs. It wasn't a sensible thing to do. But I found out, I did not know this, and I might be not getting it quite right, but basically, if you store a disc, they do degrade. I want to say mold, but it's like the atmosphere can basically eat away at that disc. So my mind was always like, if you're using and scratching it, that'll mess it up.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
But no, my fear that's been unlocked is that even if they're sitting there quietly... That shit can be degrading, and that terrifies me.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, yeah. And look, if the fucking end of the world comes and there's no internet, you are going to be sorted out, and your garage is where I will be living, watching all of that stuff. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Peak Life. Now, Rob, you are not a big coffee drinker.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, basically, instead of just getting a quick caffeine hit, you can get a steady, sustained energy that lasts all day. No crashes, no afternoon slumps, just clear, focused, calm energy that keeps you going. Helps your digestion, no bloating, no weird stomach pains. It's just light and balanced. That is Nandaka.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
But also supports digestion and metabolism and has pure, clean ingredients. If you're sick of feeling wide, tired, and running on fumes, you need to try Nendaka. Right now, Peak is offering 20% off for life and a free starter kit with your purchase. That's a rechargeable frother and glass beaker to make the perfect cup every time.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
My husband and I live in Bend, a smallish mountain town on the east side of the Cascade mountain range. When my husband and I moved here in 2017, there were still three to four Blockbusters open. To our delight, we actually had reason to frequent the establishment.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Okay, should we play our trip to the last Blockbuster store? Let's do it. Once upon a time, in a very different world, there were over 9,000 Blockbuster video stores employing over 80,000 people worldwide. That was at Blockbuster's peak in 2004, the year of Shrek 2 and Passion of the Christ. The year of the Nintendo DS and Halo 2. Those days are long behind us.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
9,094 stores whittled down to just one. And Rob and I are on our way to visit. Do you remember the last time you were in a Blockbuster?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Like, oh, this thing we've always had is suddenly going? Or was it like years and years of it happening?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Back in New Zealand, I also have a lot of my old DVDs, but none of them from a closed-down blockbuster. New Zealand did have blockbuster stores at one point, but I never set foot in one. We had other chains around our house. Which means I was about to pop my blockbuster cherry. There it is. I can see the sign.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
The world's last Blockbuster store is part of a strip mall. It would be kind of nondescript except for the giant letters spelling out Blockbuster on the roof. They're faded, but they're big. Here it is. So we've got a Papa Murphy's pizza and next to it, giant, like quite washed out Blockbuster sign. It looks aged, but here it is.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Despite never having been in a Blockbuster store, there's a sense of nostalgia going inside. I guess the brand is seed into my brain just from bits of pop culture, seeing it in movies and TV shows, and seeing the story hashed out in the last video store documentary. I have such positive memories of video stores as a kid. It's all positive.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
My husband still had his OG Blockbuster card from his college days, and we lived in an apartment that at the time had absolutely horrendous internet. Now, this was when online streaming was really picking up, but we basically didn't have access to the streaming during those peak hours. It would buffer and drive us nuts.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I think that's what it is. I inhale the smell. I wish you could smell what I'm smelling too, but like with our country episode, you'll just have to use your imagination. Just seeing all these boxes on shelves, I just remember as a kid the hours I would spend just slowly looking and pacing and deciding what I was going to get. Same here. Going to my local video store was like going to church. Holy.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Special. You had to pick carefully, because you were stuck with what you got. You had to make it count. This wasn't Netflix with a flat fee for tens of thousands of titles that you mindlessly start watching then swap three minutes in. No, choosing a physical box and disc, this was serious shit. Dan and Matt, who are working here today, remember that time fondly.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That's good. The topic on today's Flightless Bird is the Blockbuster video store chain. And I'm just wondering if you've ever been to a Blockbuster.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
There's a whole generation of kids that miss out on that experience of watching stuff. It's a whole different thing.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Blockbuster was launched in 1985 in Dallas, Texas. It had 8,000 VHS tapes and 2,000 beta tapes. Americans loved it, and suddenly Blockbuster stores were everywhere.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
At its peak, Blockbuster was a multi-billion dollar company, with some insane twists and turns along the way. One time it partnered with Enron to try and make a video on demand service. That failed. Then in the year 2000, Blockbuster turned down a chance to buy Netflix for a measly $50 million. Of course, Netflix would become a Blockbuster killer.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Sure, there were new releases, but we also loved the 99 cent option to rent older seasons of our TV shows from Blockbuster. Blockbuster saved our buffering sanity. Emails like this came in thick and fast from Bend, where there's now only one Blockbuster remaining. The only Blockbuster left in America. The only Blockbuster left on the entire planet Earth.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
The early version of the streamer mailing out DVDs to customers, meaning movie lovers didn't have to get off their lazy butts to go to a physical store anymore. Netflix and things like Redbox kiosks were bad for Blockbuster. Stores were shutting down, and then it was going bankrupt, and in 2011 it was sold to the very dryly named Dish Network.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Since me and Rob have been in this store, three families have come in. Marnie, Deepa, and their kid, Ahana, are marveling at this place like I am, and smelling it too.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Like me, they didn't grow up in America. And while they had video stores, they'd never stepped into a blockbuster.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I admit, same here. Don't arrest me. Did you know this store was here in Bend or did you just come across it? I looked.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Of course, how can you be in the world's last blockbuster without finding out someone's top three movies?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
It is a smell. I was talking to Rob before, like, what is the smell? It's like, is it carpet mixed with like plastic?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Do you still have, in New Zealand, do you have the adult section? Do you have that in America?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
It was time for me and Rob to visit Ben's most famous last Blockbuster store. So get out that membership card and get ready to inhale the very specific smell of a video store because this is the Blockbuster episode.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Me and Rob walk around the store, taking it all in. There's something just so satisfying about seeing all this physical media organized in front of you, the new releases, the sections for horror and action and romance, all curated by humans over algorithms. How does it work now? Is it Blu-rays? Is it DVDs? What are people actually coming in here to rent?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So these are the ones, okay, growing up a 90s kid, okay, you've got Indian in the Cupboard, Homeward Bound, my God.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Beethoven, Yummy as My Childhood, Casper. They're still making physical media. Do you think there's ever going to be an end to Blockbuster? Is there a time when they're going to stop making stuff and it is going to stop?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Of course, as well as the store being a real place, you can currently rent physical media. This is also a tourist trap. There's a section full of merch. What are people grabbing?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Of course, I got some stuff. Matching hoodie and sweatpants. And there's a couple next to me, Jason and Tracy, picking out stuff too.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
We've been here for about an hour. You honestly just get lost in this place. As we get ready to leave, I had one final question. Who owns it? Like, who actually owns this place?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
As for the longest serving person here today, well, that would be Sandy Harding, general manager. 21 years this year.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Has it been sort of consistently busy or was it like really busy when it, you know, you got the initial publicity and it's quiet and down?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And of course, Sandy was here when they got that fateful call from Australia seven years ago. She remembers it well, and it still makes her realize how special and meaningful her job here really is.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
It's been a weird feeling in the store on that day, like kind of sad, but exciting.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Oh, I mean, you were like a kid in a candy store. Like it was fun watching you walk around in there. It was kind of amazing. There is one thing that I sort of went down a rabbit hole on. And that is that she told me in there that Australia was the final store to close before Bend was the last one to have. So it was like when Alaska and then Australia and then Bend was the only one left.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
It's only been a week. I know. We got so much feedback from that emo episode, which we'll get to soon. It was really good, Rob. You really nailed that thing. Blockbuster.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I did some Googling, and... Google AI told you differently? No, so I never Google AI. I'm doing what that listener told me to do, and write any search I put a swear word in, and it kills the AI. What did you Google? I searched, when was the last fucking blockbuster? And if you swear in a Google search, AI opts out and you don't get any AI results. It's a great little hack.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Anyway, so there's a headline. It's archived on archive.org. It's from the 31st of January, 2020. The final credits are about to roll on New Zealand's last blockbuster video store. And there won't be any need to rewind the tape. So according to this story, there was a blockbuster remaining in Dargaville, New Zealand, after the Australian store shut down.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I thought that initially. But because this store is closing after the Australian store, I think they are separate. And I think like in many cases, New Zealand just gets left behind. Yeah, they just didn't count. Well, it doesn't count. New Zealand has left off a lot of world maps. We're not on them. We just get forgotten because we're small and we're at the bottom of the world.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So there was that story. And then there was another news story. They initially seem to back that up. The headline from January 2020, final credits, Dargaville's, Dargaville is a city in New Zealand, Dargaville's blockbuster DVD video rental store is closing.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Similar kind of narration, a relic from days gone by when the store closes at the end of the month, there will be only one blockbuster video store left in the town of Bend, Oregon.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
blockbuster had to happen i'm wearing my blockbuster tracksuit pants that i got from the blockbuster store i was i've got a full um outfit but i realized i wore that i was so excited i wore that during the emo episode and i didn't want to repeat oh you did so i've just got the pants on different top you know you had never been to a blockbuster this was my first time ever
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So no. So according to this, it was Alaska and then Australia. New Zealand still remained. But it does get a bit confusing because I dug deeper and it gets confusing because suddenly it's called Dargaville's Blue to Video Store. Okay. Instead of Blockbuster. And then I looked at some photos of the store in Dagobah.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And whilst the Blockbuster sign is right at the top, under is this other name, Blue to Video. And so I think what happened is that they lost the franchise. Blue to Video took over. But they kept the Blockbuster sign. All these news articles who were writing about the store closing down saw Blockbuster. got confused, and called it Blockbuster when it was no longer a Blockbuster.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I mean, I want Dagobah to be the second to last Blockbuster, but it just gets very confusing because it's also called Blue to Video at the time.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
well if anyone worked at that blockbuster and can yeah please do reach out dargaville flight the spread chat at gmail.com because um i want to go back back to bend and say hey you got it wrong it wasn't australia it was new zealand they had the second to last did you hear the other terrible news coming out of new zealand recently no but the airport
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I saw a headline about that, and I didn't read it. Me too. No, that's one of my most iconic things, especially in Wellington Airport, having that big bird thing. It's probably got a name in the book. I don't know, a big eagle that Gandalf rides on.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
They're so sad. I'm going to find another reason for you to go. Hobbiton's still there. We can still get you to Hobbiton.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, and to think they're still doing that at this door is incredible. So these are the latest things that are coming out.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
You know that cover. I mean, if you live through that time, you know it. Jurassic Park. Yep, very iconic. Of course, one of the most iconic of all time. Alien, that glowing egg starting to open for a little chestburster to come out. And Schwarzenegger, Total Recall.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
first blockbuster ever was the last blockbuster ever yeah which is pretty i mean it felt special to go and it's like they had them in new zealand but not in the town where i was and so i missed out and i i knew about them but the idea of going to one i was deeply curious about it and we haven't been meaning to go for a while but then we end up in portland so like why not go
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Like, you would look at this on a shelf, whether it was a VHS or later a DVD or a Blu-ray, you'd look at this and that is your, like... The only similar thing I feel like now is a bookstore. Yeah. And book covers have become so much more elaborate. And I feel that's a similar experience. Although, of course, bookstores are getting harder and harder to find.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
oh yeah through different covers yeah completely certain things would work and be popular which is what they do now with movie posters as well right it's like every marvel poster looks the same it's like a series of like vague faces or like barely photoshopped onto a thing
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So you're annoyed that the name doesn't match the face on the cover? Yes.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, completely. To be the big name. But then just like reflect the image. I agree. For me as well, it's often like the pull quote always like blows my mind. Like, like whatever the, like, what are they on here? Like total recall, get ready for the ride of your life. That's quite a good one. That's quite fun. Um, alien. Um, it's not on here, but it's like in space. No one can hear you scream.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah. Jurassic park and adventure 65 million years in the making. That is solid as hell. And what was Armageddon? This is great. This is pure Michael Bay. For love, for honor, for mankind. That's so good.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, no, it's incredible, right? And I feel like we're not, you couldn't tell me the tagline for like the new Netflix releases. No. Like the gray man, you know, that was like a Netflix big hit. I can't even remember what the visuals are around it.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I know this because when we released, when we did Dark Tourist on Netflix, we had like one meeting in the Netflix building and they took us through the art and they basically showed us like all the varieties of stuff that were going to be fed out all over the world.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And so we got this really amazing insight into like, some of them were, um, hand drawn and animated because people like watching like something animated, some were like terrible Photoshop's of like my face on like a planet.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
some of them were like the artwork we had given them yeah and basically yeah they're flung out into the world and like the algorithm yeah and see what people respond to and match it up and off you go it's like a wild process yeah you couldn't you couldn't do that at a blockbuster no no it was one bold decision and that's what you rolled with and if you fucked it up there was like no going back yep which is wild
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Now, there's something I argued with you a bit about this, I think, on the way out of Bend. And I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I've got a really good example that I think is going to help my argument. My argument was the joy of a blockbuster and having a physical product is that if this stuff disappears off streaming services, you'll still have a copy.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I don't have a copy of the stuff I've made. I don't have a copy of Dark Tourist, that series. I don't have a copy of Tickled. It just sits...
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
My reference was that store I mentioned to Hayden in the intro. It would have been Video Easy, which is the store that I applied to work in when I was at school. I was like a nerd. I loved watching movies. I loved renting movies. And so I kind of assumed Blockbuster would be similar to that. And was it? It was pretty similar. But Blockbuster felt somehow more magnificent. It felt more American.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
on a streamer and if it goes then we're never going to get it back and i think there's something to be said and it's the same with video games there's something to be said for owning the thing because there's no guarantee that it's going to exist digitally for ages and i feel like you kind of disagree to me a little bit of the time you're like i think your exact words were like you can find it somewhere online
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I think it's really worrying when there is a release of something and it's only digital and nowhere else. I think that's a very risky thing.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Because if Netflix decides to pull that... It starts to become impractical in that your entire income goes towards the purchase of discs.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Okay, my big takedown to your argument, which wasn't really an argument you were making... But it is really fascinating. Someone discovered recently they had decided to watch Ridley Scott's Robin Hood film, which is something I'd never seen. And they started the film and they discovered that the opening of the film was just like a blank texture and music and nothing.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And they were like, what the hell is going on? Like, this seems weird. Is this Robin Hood men in tights? Not men in tights. No, no, no. Ridley Scott did like a very serious Robin Hood. I feel like Russell Crowe's in it, who I love. Yeah. New Zealander, right? He's a Kiwi. Definitely not Australian. Yeah, Kiwi all the way.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
They went and got out their DVD copy of Robin Hood, which they had hoarded and had on the shelf. And what was meant to be there was a quote that says, In times of tyranny and injustice, when law oppresses the people, the outlaw takes his place in history. Amazon had removed that quote from the film. That is so...
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That's one of the most American That's like a joke but it's real I had to go and check and it's legit So they have changed The version of the film That Ridley Scott made Just so what? So an American isn't allowed to see that quote anymore? They might get some ideas in their head?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Episode two of the season two of the rehearsal was slight spoiler if you're not watching the second season of the rehearsal. But basically Nathan Fielder found out that I think Paramount Plus had removed one of the episodes of his show, his old show.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Nathan For You, which is a great show. Amazing show. Because it was talking about the Holocaust, essentially. And Paramount Plus, I believe in Germany, was the first to take it off their servers. And then Paramount all around the world removed it. And he sort of goes into details and theories of why that was.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
But yeah, that's another example of a thing disappearing, and Nathan couldn't find it, the creator of the show. So that's why we all need to hoard physical media like this and just hold on to it and never let go.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
It's a really hard thing to argue against. The last thing I'd say on this is I agree with you. I used to collect. I had a major collecting problem, and I felt I had to own everything. One of the first times I walked into Real Groovy, no, not Real Groovy, that's the New Zealand version, Amoeba Music.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
When I walked into Amoeba, I had a revelation, and I basically looked at their DVDs and Blu-rays, and I just thought, I'm never going to own all of these. So what's the point? Like, I need to stop. Will I only be happy... When I own everything in the store. And it kind of snapped me out of it. Where I was like, I've just got to stop collecting. Because there's no end.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Did you have fake cigarettes that you'd give kids? Were they called Spaceman cigarettes or was there something else? Spaceman candy?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
on a streaming platform this is where i'd argue and i was talking to a friend who's like a real movie nerd and he was telling me that audio on streaming is house so he's got like a good audio system in his house and he would always take having it even a blu-ray not having like you know not like ultra 4k i can see that that's better than having it so again we're back to the hoarding argument again of being like superior everything
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That used to be a really big deal. Rewind, what, 20 years or something? That was a big thing?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Did we get priced out? We don't care as much? Because there was a time, I forgot about this, there was a time 15 years ago where me and my friends were obsessed with trying to get... Seven speakers. Yeah, all of that.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Okay. So hoard, but not too much is where we've come to. Hoard the precious things.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
It's so odd to make candy that mimics horrific habits that adults have. It is a really weird thing to do.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That was Blockbuster. And our nerding out over physical media versus digital media. One final fun fact. I was under the impression that the Blockbuster in Bend was an Airbnb where you could rent and stay there.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah. Basically, it was a promotion. According to the staff that I spoke to, it was a promotion after the pandemic. Giveaway, three families, won a raffle to do it. And that was it. It wasn't like a long-term thing.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Apparently, you can't do that anymore. But they did say... This is going to be blatant self-promotion. They said, because I said, do you have a documentary section?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
There was maybe 50. They didn't have tickled. They said that I could send in a copy and they would put it in the last blockbuster store in America. And so I bought my own film online. It's a DVD. We made a Blu-ray at one point, but I think it's only in New Zealand. So I'm going to send this in to Bend.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And if they stick to their word, then if you're in Bend in about a month's time, you should be able to go into Bend and rent the smash hit, Tickled, certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. You should have maybe bought like three. Just bought the one.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
All this so I need help from I shouldn't be left on my own Feedback there was a lot of feedback to the email episode like a ridiculous amount and people were very enthusiastic about your passion for emo music and your encyclopedic Presentation I was relieved
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I would say that the hatred or any negative... No, we never get hatred. The negativity was an all-time low.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
annoying that that's the time that you were like presenting most of the episode but i'm not going to read too much into that um brian said um the main thing i wanted to say um was to rob thank you for doing such a great job expressing what it felt like to be part of that community scene your description of what it felt like to be part of it was truly special i don't think a lot of people get to have such a unique experience like it sounds like we both did and a lot of the feedback was down that kind of line which i thought was cool
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Oh no, they've activated. I've been hearing from them. Sly Cornchick, which is a great username, said, I love how passionate Rob is about this topic. Just give Rob one episode a month to yap about whatever he wants. Which I think is kind of great. Yeah. Okay, before we get back into, like, good feedback, we go dark. Briefly. Do you have any idea what this is going to be?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And when you were a kid chewing it, were you kind of picturing that you were like a cowboy or something, or like an American macho guy chewing on tobacco? Or was it just like, this is a delicious gum flavor?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Is this the Lost Prophets pedophile thing? Okay, so I had no idea about any of this. I didn't either.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Right, so in the episode, we mentioned this band. I don't even, was it me? Maybe in an old news story?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
No, I was very confused, because I was like, I'm sure it wasn't in your presentation. I spoke about a few bands, but not them.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I didn't even know who they were anyway. I think those are really interesting. So Jennifer wrote in to say, listening from England and the UK, and was surprised to hear the band Lost Prophets included in the episode. due to abhorrent crimes of the lead singer, Ian Watkins, who is now in a maximum security prison. Jeez. Which blew my mind. And so I was like, what the hell?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So yeah, in an old news clip from like 20 years ago, I'd mentioned them in a line. And obviously a few people listening were like, what the hell?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, for sure. What was your favorite thing about perusing the aisles of Blockbuster?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And so I went onto Wikipedia, lost profits. In 2012, Watkins was charged with multiple sexual offenses against kids, infants, and animals. Wow. Just like the worst of the worst. So at the time, the band cancelled all tour dates and disbanded in 2013 before the end of Watkins' trial. Watkins pleaded guilty to several charges.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
In December of 2013, he was sentenced to 29 years of imprisonment plus six years of extended supervision.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
uh which basically he's not gonna get out of there um but yeah when you get a kids toddlers babies animals combo holy shit yeah so yeah horrific i'd like to add lost profits was not in your email playlist no no i'd never heard of them and yeah i didn't know any of this and now i do i always love hearing horrific things i didn't know about so that's one of them the idea of being in a band you've got like
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
three other people with you say, and it's like one of them does something, you're over. You know, your lead singer, that's the worst of it all because they're hard to replace. But like you can do like, I feel like bands do like minor infractions. Kanye's pushing the limits. I mean, yeah.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
He's pushed through the limits. Oh no, horrific. Yeah. But like this one in particular. You'd be like, come on, we were doing so well. Yeah, yeah. Okay, back to the positive. Corin said, my little Chicago emo heart is bursting. Haven't made it past the intro, but I was listening to the theme song and thinking, man, they freaking nailed the style. That sounds like the Tide.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Tom, who always emails in, he was in our pinball episode, he has had an observation. Vic of PS Surveil's description of typical male emo attire sounded a lot like the typical male beatnik attire of the early 60s. So maybe emo roots go back to the beatnik era as those old cool cats also expressed themselves in similar moody ways through poetry and prose.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Okay, Sarah said, I was a pretty angsty, clinically depressed teen and fell into an emo crowd in rural Arkansas, which is always about Arkansas, which always freaks me out. In fact, at one point, my group of friends and I were planning to start an emo band.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
My friend Shorty was going to be the lead singer and the rest of us, well, we weren't sure because not a single one of us played an instrument. Also, Shorty could not sing. Thankfully, that plan fell apart quickly. Acme said, I wanted to chime in on the Hare Krishnas stopping the emo versus punk fight in Mexico. The hardcore band Cro-Mags have a Hare Krishna background.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That's how I personally heard about the Hare Krishna movement. There's also another sub-genre called Krishna Corps established by other bands like Shelter and one away. Do you know this?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Blows my mind. I'd never heard of it. Yeah. John says, I'm from Arizona. Thanks for the episode. Thank you, especially Rob. I started listening to all the bands you mentioned in this episode and I really love them. I fell in love with Dashboard Confessional specifically. I've already listened to the first two albums and I'm going to listen to them all.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So yeah, you have a new fan, Dashboard Confessional. I looked it up and they're playing in my state in July. I'm going to wear my flightless bird shirt to the show.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Well, Sarah wrote in and said, I have a 14 year old emo daughter, which is a very funny sentence. I have an emo daughter. She loves all different kinds of music, but is crazy for my chemical romance. I'm taking her to a violent femmes and my chemical romance show this summer. She also loves, this gets better and better. This kid legitimately sounds the best.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
She also loves and saying clown posse, which is amazing. I didn't know what that was until your podcast. And finally, I'm going to end on Megan. She said, what are your fans called? Birdies? Consider me a birdie. So I guess that is what it is. It's birdies.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And the other thing about going to Blockbuster for the first time, they had popcorn there. And to my recollection, the video stores I went to in New Zealand didn't have fresh popcorn.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, because people were basically writing in saying, oh, my God, am I wearing one of your shirts that you designed back in the day?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That's the most emo of all the shirts you've shown me just now. Love that.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That's dope, though. That's great. That's, like, good, like, design of, like, what you're printing on, specifically.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
You just did it for fun? And then like... other stuff yeah this is like a whole other life you had it's such a i think that's why people enjoy listening to it because they were like seeing like people know you from your different shows you make but i think people were just seeing like a thing you'd done that they just had no idea about which is like kind of fun to learn about
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
It explains why you like creating and working on getting the Flightless Bird shirt. It's all so good.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
figuring out that stuff well i will be putting these up on ebay along with my armageddon vhs make a little bit of extra coin okay if you have feedback to any of this uh flightless bread chat at gmail.com especially if you are at the dagavel blockbuster store in new zealand i want to hear from you um and as always um any ideas for topics or anything you want to say email us
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
One thing I did want to mention, on the way to Blockbuster, we stopped in at the Timberline Lodge.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
which a few people at the show told us to go to. And that is the exterior setting for The Shining film. So all the internal stuff, I understand they shot it in the UK, but the external was all shot there. And so we went in and I think I was expecting a very atmospheric sort of moody thing. What did we get?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
You could pick, when you go to the Timberline Lodge, you can pick the Shining fans from the people that are there to ski. It's very clear.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
That's really funny. I also, I felt bad. There was this email we got when we were going to go to Bend. Catherine emailed in and she said at the time, you and Rob are welcome to stay at our house. We could host you or at least offer a home cooked meal. And I felt bad because I replied to her originally and then I just completely forgot about her when we actually went there.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
But she said something else in there. I also possibly have the cutest hunk of pibble that would smother you with love. Have you ever heard of a pibble? A pibble? A pibble. P-I-B-B-L-E. Like a pitbull crossed with? So my understanding, yeah, you're right. My understanding, though, I don't think it's even a cross.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I think it's maybe what people call pitbulls when they're trying to make them less scary. Oh. So it's like, there's this idea that they are a more violent dog. But if you call them a pibble, it's like the cute thing that you call them. It's like how parrot people call their parrots fids. Can you guess what that is?
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So instead of having a kid, they have a fid. That's what they call their birds.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
No, nothing to do with rep. It's just like animal owners that give their animal an acute term. Anyway, that's what a pit bull is. Yeah, an informal term often used to describe a pit bull terrier. The name originated from a desire to give these dogs a more approachable and friendly nickname because pit bulls have stigma.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
I don't think they did that at Blockbuster. That was, I was just so excited to like get posters for my room. So we had that at the movie theater. Oh, you'd have amazing stuff at the movie theater.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Your room would have been like Dawson and Dawson's Creek. It would have been a bit like that.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Oh, that's insane. Just go on like a raid every theater in the United States. I didn't raid them. That's really funny. I would have flipped out having that kind of power behind me. The other thing I remember from the video store, we couldn't get... So we get into this later on, I think, but... In New Zealand, the non-Blockbuster stores had adults-only sections.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
So Blockbuster never had that, apparently. Yeah, there was not. But Video Easy and United Video, they had beads, often, or like a little curtain, and that was where all the pornography was. I never went in there because I was a good Christian child. But my go-around, and I don't know if you had this in America, but there was an erotic section. And erotic wasn't porn, it was like the sexy thrillers.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
definitely nudity but it was like art so it was okay and i remember these yeah not striptease i'm trying to think of the cover right yeah striptease would be in there yes sir of course that would be in there i vividly remember that oh that cover yeah um there was that um species that film that was like when alien was popular it was like a sexy alien version of that but i remember the erotic section probably being the first time where i was like oh my god like what's going on here
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
And the other section I remember that sort of scarred me a little bit was there was like a documentary section and always in there, there was a series of like... R-18 tapes, and I think there it says R for you in America. It's just R. But it was like extreme gore, or like autopsy. It was like shock videos, and they always stock those, which I found very unusual.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
Yeah, right. So just the shocking kind of underground stuff that was officially released but wasn't allowed in bigger stores.
Flightless Bird
Blockbuster
fucked up crazy movies we can go yeah and this was before the internet so you had to find the actual physical thing to get this kind of material where there's like probably only a few copies of this that were rentable in the country and like facets had it yeah see that's what the kids are missing out on these days is like the effort it's the same with records and cds of like having to find the thing and it was so special to finally find the thing
Flightless Bird
Prisons
hey risabelle you're calling me this is a real shock well i'm calling you back oh the truth comes out what's up um i'm calling you for the podcast is that okay yes um but just quickly you texted before saying you'd eaten too much
Flightless Bird
Prisons
For the last probably month and a half, I've been wearing nothing but Bombas socks and I love them. They feel good and they look good and I highly, highly recommend them to you. Plus, Bombas is going international. Enjoy worldwide shipping to over 200 countries. Head over to bombas.com slash bird and use code bird for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash bird.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
It had everything, didn't it? It had themes, it had the writing, it had... Metaphors, yeah.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Code bird for 20% off your first purchase. bombus.com slash bird and use the code bird. I think we should just play the documentary and then discuss things afterwards. What do you think? That sounds great. Okay. I wanted to start this episode by calling someone really important. And for this particular call, I'd need Rob's phone. Hello? Hello, it's David here. I work with your son, Rob.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And you used his phone. Yeah, I just wanted to give you a surprise. I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to ignore me.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
He kind of had to say that because his son was listening, but I'll take the compliment anyway. I'm calling Rob's dad, Greg, because he volunteers at his local prison, helping prisoners with their rehab just by getting them to open up a little bit.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I'm curious what you think one of the biggest misconceptions might be about prisons, or maybe perhaps about prisoners, the people you encounter. I know that's a very broad question.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I'd never thought about that until now, because I either think of Green Mile or Shawshank Redemption, which are both Steve... Well, Green Mile was going to be my other movie. Both Stephen King adaptations.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
As I said, I wanted to check in with Rob's dad because I was curious to learn more about the American prison system. And frankly, I just didn't know where to start. The US has the largest prison population in the world, almost 2 million prisoners. From what I could tell, America gets its rocks off by locking people up and metaphorically throwing away the key.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
A piece in Vox last year noted that America's prison system is turning into a de facto nursing home. In 2020, there were 166,000 prisoners 55 and older. By 2022, it was 186,000.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I'm talking to Bianca Tylek, the founder of national advocacy group Worth Rises. To state what you can probably already guess, she doesn't like the way America does incarceration. She says Worth Rises exists to end the financial incentives to keep people locked up, and in doing so, end the exploitation of prisoners. Coming at it devil's advocate for a second, isn't that great?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
America, they're not going to let people run rampant. They've got the situation under control. There's consequences for your actions. What's the issue?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Again, very broad, complicated question to answer, but how did we get to this point in America? Why has this become this country's obsession?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, as far as I can tell, one of America's main catchphrases is Land of the Free. It's a key phrase in the Star Spangled Banner, a song so good President Hoover made it the United States' national anthem in 1931.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Is the other difficulty in America just the fact that, you know, it's these 50 different states? I mean, you literally have some states that support the death penalty, others that don't, some that have like liberal leadership, some that don't. Does that sort of make it a bit of a unique nightmare to sort of reach some kind of consensus?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
She's not talking literally 100 feet down the road, but about things like abortion, legal in some states, a crime in others.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
The original line and the whole anthem was penned over a hundred years earlier by Francis Scott Key, an American lawyer who also masqueraded as a part-time poet. He was also a massive racist, speaking publicly of black people in America as a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
There are lots of examples of companies making money off both public and private prisons. I think of another project I worked on ages ago, where I was emailing back and forth with someone in a Florida prison. To communicate with them, I had to use an internal email system called JPay. Each message I sent cost money. 1.5 million prisoners use JPay. Prisons get kickbacks for using it.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Then I think of another side hustle like the bail bonds industry, which we spent a whole episode of Flightless Bird on a few years ago.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
With all this talk of incarceration, I wanted to get a better idea of what it's like to be inside. I've been working on another episode of Flightless Bird about the unhoused population in LA, and I've been talking to a guy called Jared Clickstein. He spent a lot of his life homeless and addicted to heroin. He wrote an amazing book, which I highly recommend, called Crooked Smile.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Anyway, I realized Jared had spent six months in one of LA's main jails. Now free and sober, he agreed to meet with me outside.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Twin Towers reminds me of all the jails I've ever seen in America. Nondescript off-white, tiny slit windows, a total lack of humanity almost. It's like someone was rendering a video game world and forgot to do this bit.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Because we're in LA, this jail has seen its fair share of celebrity inmates. The Game, Robert Durst, Danny Masterson. They've all spent at least a few days in here.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
What a cool guy to write America's national anthem. Anyway, what's my point? My point is that for a country obsessed with being the land of the free, the United States certainly lacks locking people up in prison. The United States has the largest prison population in the world with around 1.9 million people incarcerated here.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
This is a really hack question, but what was the scariest thing that happened in there?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Fucking hell. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Symbiotica. Now, living healthy looks different to everyone. For me at the moment, it's trying to get eight hours sleep a night. Easier said than done. It's doing exercise, makes me very sweaty, and just generally trying not to get too stressed out by things.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And yeah, Symbiotica also keeps me living healthily. Over the last week, I've been using a bunch of Symbiotica's stuff like their Magnesium L3 and 8, which helps support focus and mood. Friends had been telling me about the importance of magnesium for ages, but I was ignoring them. And now here I am trying it finally. And yeah, it's a good thing.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
It comes in a little packet with liquid inside that tastes very yummy when you suck it back and god, vanilla cream flavour is the one for me. Symbiotica helps you maintain healthy habits all year long no matter what your goals are, supporting everything from your energy, digestion, immune system and mood.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
The travel sized packets are great for me as I actually remember to use them each day and yeah, as the name suggests, they're really easy to travel with. It's one of the easiest things I've done for my health. Symbiotica is one of the most trustworthy brands out there. They never compromise on quality and sourcing.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Their products are free from seed oils, preservatives, toxins, or artificial additives. It's something you can taste and feel in every packet. I'm excited to be starting my journey with Symbiotica and I worked out an awesome offer for my listeners so you can try their products too. Go to symbiotica.com slash bird for 20% off plus free shipping.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
That's made up by about a million in state prison, half a million in local jails, 200,000 in federal prisons, 30,000 in youth jails, and the rest scattered in other unpleasant places like immigration detention camps and military prisons. To be honest, I've been avoiding this topic because it feels just way too big, and it is way too big, but here we are anyway.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
That's symbiotica.com slash bird to claim 20% off plus free shipping today. Overall, Jared got off light. From what I can tell, Twin Towers Jail is maybe less hectic than a lot of America's prisons, where people are locked up for much longer sentences. Bianca had reminded me of some of the truly nightmarish destinations people end up in.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
So far, I'd mostly been talking public prisons, where over 90% of America's prisoners are housed, but around 8% find themselves in privately funded operated facilities. I wondered if they were much better. Robert Craig doesn't seem to think so. He's the associate director of Abolish Private Prisons. His group is sort of amazing.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
They're a non-profit that uses the court system against private prisons. They file multiple cases in federal courts across the country. Their ultimate aim to prove that profiting off the backs of prisoners violates the United States Constitution.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
So let's have a conversation about crime, justice, personal liberty, and the Shawshank Redemption, because this... is the prisons episode.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
To be honest, at this point, I was still finding it hard to wrap my head around the different types of American prisons, jails versus prisons, public versus private. It was just a little messy in my mind. So I went down to San Diego to meet someone who's actually emailed us about this topic a while back.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
She had arranged to have me go inside a prison called the GEO Western Region Detention Facility.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Why is America so obsessed with incarceration as opposed to prevention? Because it does just end up being so expensive as well. It's expensive to keep people in prisons.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Today, Alana has agreed to take me into a private prison to visit one of her clients who I'll call Jeff. They've been caught, allegedly, with a bunch of drugs in their car near the border. They're awaiting trial, but if found guilty, could go away for up to 15 years. I've never been inside an American prison before, so I was curious about the experience. I got off to a bad start.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Yeah, so first off, there was a sort of an outfit disaster that I had. Can you just explain what went on there?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Luckily, I did have some clothes in the car. You never know when you might need to look fancy. So I swapped out my shorts and Nine Inch Nails t-shirt for some long pants and a shirt. It ended up being a short 10-minute walk from her office to the prison. I still look a bit unkempt, but I'm going to get away with it because everything's covered. Everything's covered now.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
No one will be riled up by your sexiness. Okay, this is good. This is good. Who are we going to see?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
What have you told him? You said you've got the worst kind of person, a podcaster coming in to say hello. What have you said?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
You know, checking in. America is a crazy place. I feel this week may be a... Seven out of ten. I've noticed I've been biting the inside of my mouth. I have that rough inside of the mouth, so I've been nibbling. What's ten and what's one? Ten is like I'm about to go somewhere really exciting and maybe make something. Or I'd say holiday, but I actually don't love holidays that much.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
It had taken months for Alana to organize me joining her in here, and just before we went inside, I had a moment of panic. Who does the court think I am?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
So I haven't perjured myself. I'm just checking that I don't need to have a cover or something.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
At least we'll find out. Yeah. We check in with the guard, then go through a metal detector. I get a stamp on my hand, just like I'm going into a concert. Weirdly, I can't see any marking and wonder if it's out of ink. I think for a moment I'm going to be able to record inside, but no.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
It is. Goodbye, recorder. Recording gear, phone, wallet and key stored in a locker. We wait for about 20 minutes before they fetch a client. We sit in a narrow, unglamorous corridor before being called in. Then it's more corridors, and I scan my hand under a sensor. Turns out the stamp was infrared. We're buzzed through one door, then that door locks behind us and another door opens.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
We're directed to a room where we sit and wait for Jeff. When he enters, he's uncuffed and in prison scrubs. I've never visited anyone in prison before. We have our own private room, it's just us. A million TV shows and true crime podcasts flood into my head because that's my only point of reference. We talk to Jeff for about 30 minutes.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
That's mostly me asking dumb questions, but there's also some time where Alana discusses the case. I'm not sure what I expected, but Jeff is polite, informed, and really funny. He's missing his girlfriend and his kid. He's aware he fucked up. Now he's just waiting for his court date. Towards the end, the walls do feel like they're closing in, and by the time we're outside, I'm glad.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And the life he described inside? Well, I don't think I'd last more than 20 seconds. I was really surprised at the, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised about the beatings that go on for what was it called?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Jeff had talked about the hierarchy inside and how if people didn't do the right thing, they'd get regulated. Set prisoners carry out regulations, and for set amounts of time. It's like a kind of internal justice system among prisoners. I was also really surprised to learn that prisons are separated by race. Blacks are in one area, Mexicans in another, whites in another.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I remember the story Greg had told me about the race war he got caught up in.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Learning about the way races are literally segregated out, that surprised me.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
A one is when it's... Was it inauguration week? Inauguration week is pretty low. I'd also say it's like when I wake up at two in the morning and I think, oh my God, I'm going to die one day. That's about a two. What about you? I'm about a four this week. Four, a big week. Yeah, yeah. Hard week.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Another thing that surprised me, handball is really popular inside and it gets you places. As in, Jeff told me he was really good at handball and that ended up really helping him in there. It got him status. Handball was the thing that got him into that number two position in there, like running things. That's kind of amazing.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
He also seemed like I don't know what I was expecting. He seemed incredibly calm for someone that was living quite an exciting life. He's suddenly looking at five or ten years. He seemed super calm about it all. Do you get clients as well who are just really fucking angry or bitter? He seemed incredibly chilled out.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
America's obsession with locking people up does scare me. At as extreme as capital punishment, but in between being free and that, there's just such a wide range of unpleasantness. Yes, society needs justice and it needs accountability, but I'm not sure America's approach is it.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
okay admin before we get into prisons uh we still have tickets for two live shows we have coming up one in portland and one in san francisco yes april 13th at revolution hall in portland portland is my favorite city i will say i can't wait they do good coffee and i'll be hoovering it up stephen smith tea maker is out of portland
Flightless Bird
Prisons
A law professor in New Zealand I admire, Kylie Quince, points out that the justice system can't address inequality and is ill-equipped to effectively help people with substance abuse or mental health issues. It's an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff in a system where the fence at the top is broken.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Anyway, as I wrap this little audio documentary up, I had one last question, an important one for Rob's dad. I'm curious what it's like to have Rob as a son. What would you say about him as a person? You created him. What do you think of the result?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Really threw them under the bus. I love it. And are there any personality traits you think Rob could improve on, do you think? Is there any room for improvement? No.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Suddenly Rob's mom wanders into the background. I think she's been pretending she doesn't want to be a part of this, but secretly she does. I know that Rob sometimes plays tricks on you, I've just heard as well. He does that to me all the time and I find it incredibly frustrating and annoying. And so I just want to say I'm with you.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
He is one of the most irritating men I've ever met. Also lovely and wonderful. And with that compliment hanging in the air, back to the studio. We traversed a lot of ground in there. Irritating is a word hanging in the air from your mother that I just want to address briefly. This was months ago. This was months ago.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
It was just really nice to be able to talk to your mom a little bit about what it's like being in the same space as you and I'm amazed because I've known you now for probably almost four years. And your jokes and your deadpan still get me pretty much every time we hang out. Which is so annoying because deadpan is New Zealanders' main thing. And so I should be able to tell.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I'm just a fucking idiot. Every time I'm like, really? And you're like, no. You do remind me a lot of my mom. I don't know if I want to proceed on with this conversation. In what way? Just nice people, right? Yeah. Yeah, trusting.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Yeah. I like your mom. Me too. Prisons. Prisons. Prisons, jails, different thing. I got confused by them all the time. Jail, more short-term. Prisons, long-term, federal.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
innocent sweet boy just get chewed up yeah right system yeah after talking to jeff briefly like it was that was his first like sort of like long stay in there like he'd he'd basically got caught allegedly bringing a lot of drugs into america so that was um for him a big one and he just said yeah just life in there it just sounds like it would end me in about five minutes probably
Flightless Bird
Prisons
How claustrophobic and... It was claustrophobic. Yeah, you felt the walls coming in. And I mean, we were just visiting, right? But it's just the lack of windows. It's everything being so close and inward and just no space. Well, and you're just locked in somewhere, even as a visitor. Yeah. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And he had a kid and he was talking about how some days he would get up and just want to not be there, like not want to be alive. Other days he'd be like, I've got to try and figure out how to do as best as I can with this case. But actually Alana wrote literally about a week ago, wrote with an update because I recorded that now it would have been maybe four months ago.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I just wanted to give you another update on Jeff. Ever since Trump took over, the US attorney is charging way more illegal entry cases, basically Mexicans crossing the border unlawfully. During democratic administrations, they usually focus on only prosecuting people who had criminal convictions in the US and are trying to sneak back in after a deportation.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
But under this new administration, they've charged people with no criminal record and even those who are trying to cross the border for the first time ever. So most of these end up as misdemeanors for the person spending a few days or a couple of weeks in jail. So with all these new prosecutions, the federal detention facilities are getting super crowded.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
So they're shipping away a lot of defendants who have pleaded guilty and are just awaiting a sentencing date. Jeff got sent to St. Louis AZ. This is a four-hour drive from here, making it super difficult for me to visit him and even harder for family visits. It also sucks because obviously people get comfortable in the institutions they're at.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
He's a good example of someone who had adapted and made social connections even in that crazy environment. Now he has to start completely over with less attorney access and family access. I have multiple clients in this situation right now and it really sucks. I can't say anything to even like
Flightless Bird
Prisons
wrap my head around any of this it's just in my mind america always sitting in the back of my head is that really high incarceration rate it's the nightmare thing to happen and a lot of people are living it and obviously have to be consequences for certain things yeah but the system here obviously like sucks a lot of people in and there's not a lot of help before people get there let alone rehabilitating them so they don't go back
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Yeah, just statistically, society is basically going, no, you're gonna be back in here.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
yeah even just thinking of the people working in those private funded prisons right like you go into work every day for your job to exist those people have to stay in there like they have to be yeah you have to always have clients you don't want everyone to get better and get out so like and like they said in the doc they try to keep the beds full so i mean you would hope that there wasn't anything uh shady going on you would hope so that uh
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Even in macro ways, just that whole mentality of working in a private prison, your whole existence is based on people, you know, those beds being full. Just in macro ways, it's not going to exactly sort of make you think, yay, I want all these people to be on, you know, out and free. And that's going to change the way you treat them. And it'll change so much within that system.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
yeah yeah did anything else jump out at you from that i mean obviously just hearing about the conditions in certain prisons is always terrifying because it's not the funding to actually make them humane in so many ways yeah i mean the violence within it in the system is scary um and just kind of the race divide within it as well that you're kind of just forced into these buckets that was yeah i mean it might have been naive but i had no idea that prisoners were a split in that way
Flightless Bird
Prisons
based on that and the regular beatings that would take place like if you didn't fit in with that internal justice system it would be basically like it is a minute solid beating if this happens or it is two minutes solid if this happens and obviously when that things that when that's going on guards are you know not there and it's just unfolding and just yeah pretty horrific yeah i mean i'm curious sort of about
Flightless Bird
Prisons
specific stories within the prison and sort of jail system in america so if you have any specific sort of um ends or ideas it's just flight the spread chat gmail.com i feel like um there are a million stories to be told i'd like to kind of hone in on something super specific to learn a bit more about it and so yeah if you have any sort of response to this episode would love to hear from you
Flightless Bird
Prisons
feedback appreciate everyone that is writing in um i guess this kind of slightly ties into the whole idea of crime and punishment but i had mentioned a while ago now that a car driven by and offered me some beautiful audio visual equipment for a price in cash money tom rodin from vancouver David, you nearly got duped by a famous scam, the white van scam. Was it him and the white van?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Yeah, this is the guy that was trying to scam me. Almost got you. It's a very common scam and the speakers are not stolen. It's just extremely cheap and junky. The scam is in the website that the QR code they give you directs to. It's a fake site. So very specifically, what made me think this is legit is he said, scan the QR code on the box. It will show you the price.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And I scanned it and it took me to what I thought was a really authentic site. It was all bullshit. Bestbuy.com. It looked like a bestbuy.com. Anyway, the fact is, apparently everyone knows about the scam except me. It's even got a Wikipedia page, the white van speaker scam. I wasn't aware of this.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And I really liked how he ended this email to me saying, I have a funny story about a guy who I know who fell for it. He's dopey and clearly identified as an easy mark, which is probably exactly what I was. Yeah, were you... I was. Yeah, I was strolling. Yeah, shorts, t-shirt, looking like I normally look. This. Just kind of that angry stomp. The stomp. Yeah, yeah.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And he pulled over and I took my headphones out and he said, come over here. You look like you like speakers. And I was excited by it. I was like a bargain. Like, this could be my big moneymaker. I get these speakers, I sell them. Rich. But I didn't fall for it. I backed away at the last moment. Emily wrote... She was at our live show in Seattle and she has a lovely story.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I've heard nothing but beautiful things. If you go into the show notes for this episode, there'll be ticket links in there. Go in there, get a ticket. Can't wait to go. Sounded like you said tickle links. Tickle links. I mean that too. There's tickle links and there's ticket links. Take your pick which one you want. They're different vibes, but I think like both fun.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I came to your live show in Seattle and was delighted that you decided to visit our city. I went to the show by myself and ended up chatting with another woman at the bar who was there alone too. Instantly, I was thrilled to finally have someone to gab to about a podcast I've spent so much time listening to, and we chatted.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
As we got closer to the show, I went to grab a second drink when a cute guy caught my eye. That's where it gets horny. We shared a few words, and that was that. I went back to Bethany, my new friend, and shared my saga, asking her to help me back up the courage to slide him my number. Bethany, this one's so funny. Bethany was the ultimate hype girl and helped me look for a pen and strategize.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Well, dear reader, I was able to slip that guy my number. Not only that, he texted me and we went on a date and we're currently planning our second date.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
We might have our first flightless bird baby. I think we might. I think wedding, babies. I mean, I'm just excited by a second date. I think if they get married, we have to go to the wedding. I think we absolutely, if we're not invited to that wedding. Yeah. And I do want to do an episode about ridiculous American weddings.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I'll cut the umbilical cord and encourage them not to circumcise the child. So Emily, I'm really happy for you. I'm glad you made a friend and I'm glad you met a boy. That's so nice. And if anything goes wrong with the relationship, I want, I take no responsibility.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Yeah, please do. Crystal wrote in about the fake seizure guy episode still getting a lot of local sort of fake seizure guys. Really love this one. The Duluth ball slasher. There's a gentleman which sounds more awful than it is. This gentleman whose whole deal is stabbing big yoga balls. He got his start back in 2005, 20 years ago. Wait, what's a yoga ball?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Those massive balls that you sit in and roll around on. Like a medicine ball? A medicine ball. Okay.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
He's done a bit of time for it Apparently Slashing balls But he's destroyed hundreds of yoga balls It's always fun to get a text message From an uncle or friend saying The ball slasher is at it again There you go He's just like hitting up yoga studios Just yoga studios, offices With like a pair of sharp scissors I don't have any more details actually But if you know more Write in I'm fascinated by this man
Flightless Bird
Prisons
hopefully uh this doesn't encourage any copycats either that would be horrific to yoga balls um the world over in my old newsroom we went through a phase of everyone sitting on yoga balls because apparently for a while chairs weren't good for your posture so everyone was like sitting on a yoga ball i could see that like this yeah uh we should we should do an episode where we switch out your chair for a yoga ball
Flightless Bird
Prisons
i would actually i find like posture in this chair like quite bad i'm always like something so i would be into it i mean it would be great for the camera if you were always just just totally like just gyrating and like the shot is from here up so i'm just like no one sees what i'm doing uh so yeah as always thanks for writing in as always flightlessbirdchat gmail.com uh live shows in uh portland and san francisco very soon they're in the show notes get your tickets before they all disappear
Flightless Bird
Prisons
If you have any ideas on amazing topics for those shows or things you'd like us to investigate in those cities, again, email us, flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
We want your birds. We want them on stage because a key thing of a Flightless Bird show is having birds on stage with us. I mean, we're going to be fucked if we can't find... We'll cancel the show. If we don't have Flightless Bird, we're not doing it. And we can't fly with our local birds. That would be way too chaotic.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Catch these birds, just release them into the auditorium, but then they're not Flightless. That's the trouble. They've got to be dead. Thanks for listening. We will see you next week. See you then.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
look tickle links tickle links uh in the show notes and uh yeah we look forward to seeing you there now today's episode i'm genuinely kind of worried about because it's a big one it's a big one it's a heavy subject it's too big well it's a subject that affects a lot of people in not great ways
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Yeah, I would say that the little audio documentary I've made is like a sort of neandering all over the place kind of a thing. But it solves everything? It solves everything. It's a big investigation that solves America's prison population problem.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
But, yeah, I'm sort of also always hoping that out of this, if anyone's listening and they have any really specific kind of ins to any of the things I touch on, to maybe email me, and I'd like to go deeper in future episodes. So, as always, that's flightlessbreadchat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
But, yeah, I've sort of been gathering little stories over the last year and little interviews, and I've put them all into –
Flightless Bird
Prisons
this one big weird audio doc including talking to your dad yeah which we did how long ago now yeah this has been a long time coming i think we did that like it was before christmas and something weird about this show i've found the topics i do that come together like very quickly are often the ones that work quite well and the ones that i take a really long time on
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Okay. So this week's topic is a very broad one. It's about prisons in America. And I just wonder if I say prisons in America to you, what is the very first thing that comes to mind?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
just become almost more difficult anyway this is all very boring background in my brain about how i think about this is that because you're procrastinating and like give up on ways to part of it tie up nicely kind of yeah and i think like stuff that comes together organically always i think you can sense the flow of it in an episode yeah and things that are jumping all over the place it can just get a bit ungainly maybe but before we get into this
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Roosevelt mentioned studying Shawshank Redemption at school. Do you remember what film you studied in English class? Or did you not do that in America? Because in New Zealand, in English, maybe when you're 15 or 16, you'll always study a film And you have to write about it. You do projects about it. Yeah. And Shawshank was just the thing that was like in every New Zealand school.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
It was like exam time and it would be essays about the fucking Shawshank Redemption, which is an incredible film, but I just, we watched it so many times. It was that and, And Forrest Gump. What, like, year is this happening? We're probably 14, 15, 16. Yeah. That kind of age.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Okay, so there was no Shawshank Redemption at school. But I guess when I was thinking with Rosabelle, I was kind of thinking like, how do New Zealanders think about American prisons? And so much of it is through TV. And my references always were... Shawshank. Prison Break. I was about to say Prison Break was one of the by far trashiest things ever made. But I stand by it. That was good hot trash.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Oh, well, we're not here to show, but I mean, we can, I mean, that can take it. Also, can I just say True Buds starred New Zealander Anna Paquin. I didn't realize she was New Zealander. Actually, she is. I'm sure she is. She better not be Australian. I'm just double checking this. Let's see. She's a Canadian-born New Zealand actor. Wow. Wow.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Prison Break, just quickly, just on True Blood, was that Alan Ball who did, I believe, Six Feet Under? Yeah. I'm just going to check because Six Feet Under is my favorite show of all time. Yeah. So he created True Blood and Six Feet Under. Wow. One of the most amazing shows and one of just a very different style. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
But Prison Break I loved because the end of every episode, every episode was a cliffhanger. And that was unreal. Do you remember the premise? He went into prison. He got locked up so he could break his older, bulkier brother out. And he tattooed a map of the prison on his back and like a very elaborate tattoo that wasn't a map. But it was a map.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And it was on his back. How did he reference the map? Like, he looked in the mirror? I can't even remember.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
They get out. They get out, but then... They get arrested in, like, Mexico? Yeah, and locked up in another prison. Yeah, yeah. That tattoo is no good in the Mexican jail.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Is there a bit of pop culture that you were raised with in New Zealand that made you think of prisons?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
I also think it's the best cliffhanger, I think it was the end of season one, they're out, and they're just running along, I think trying to get to a plane, and the cops are closing in, and I just remember being like, oh my god, I don't think I can wait for season two. Like, this is too important. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And Wentworth Miller though, I got very obsessed with Wentworth Miller at the time He's like incredibly hot Which character was that? He is like the hot brother with the tattoo on the back Okay, the main character, not the brother that was locked up Not that guy So Wentworth Miller, I'm doing a lot of googling in this episode He directed a really amazing film, I believe it was called Stoker
Flightless Bird
Prisons
which is this really beautiful art house film. And I looked at who directed it. It's like fucking Wentworth Millett from Prison Break. Like, what the hell are you doing? I was going to check that it is called Stoker. No. Okay. So it gets even more mind blowing. Wentworth Miller wrote Stoker and it was directed by Park Chan-wook. It's a fucking incredible director.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
He wrote Tropic Thunder, which is a very funny but slightly problematic movie in parts.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
This isn't the present episode. This is movie trivia right now. We've got to move on to prisons. Google rabbit hole. We've got to move on to prisons. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Helix.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Now, you probably don't need me to tell you this, but sleeping is really important and getting a good night's sleep is really important for both your brain and your body. And what I have loved about getting a Helix mattress is that my body is a lot better. It's in a lot better shape, as is my brain. I've talked about this a lot as well. I have a bad back
Flightless Bird
Prisons
because I'm a 42-year-old man who has slouched a lot of his life, and the Helix Sleep Mattress offers me the support that I need. And that is why I'm really happy to be talking about Helix. Now, all you need to do to get a Helix Mattress is to jump online, take their online quiz, and it will match you to a mattress that is the perfect one for you. I heard about Helix Sleep through this podcast.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
They were one of the sponsors. I was in America. I didn't have a good mattress. And so I logged into the site. I chose the mattress I wanted, or rather it chose me after I told them about my sleeping patterns. And then it arrived at my front door. And good God, I haven't looked back. I'm used to traveling a lot and I've slept on a lot of different beds.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And so I feel like I know a good one when I feel one. And Helix is really bloody good. So go to helixsleep.com slash bird for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com slash bird for 20% off site wide. helixsleep.com slash bird. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Bombers. Now, what if I told you the most important part of your spring cleaning routine is your sock drawer?
Flightless Bird
Prisons
You heard that right, and I think a lot of people don't talk about the sock drawer, but it's very, very important. Looking there, it's probably going to be a mess. There are probably some socks missing, there are things mismatched, and it's time for you to sort this out. Basically, it's time to refresh your collection with some fresh Bombas, which is exactly what I have done.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
And no matter what kind of socks you want, Bombas is there for you. Ready to unlock your new running hobby? Well, Bombas is there for you with their engineered blister-fighting wonderful socks. Maybe you've got a wedding coming up. And you need a really nice pair of socks. Bombas dress socks are there for you. And they're made for loafers, heels, and all of your other fancy shoes.
Flightless Bird
Prisons
Because you have to stay comfortable when you're dancing on that big, randy wedding dance floor. Plus, you know what goes great with new spring socks? Fresh white t-shirts, waterproof sides, and a few pairs of buttery soft underwear. Bombas makes all of that too. And the best part of this? For every comfy pair you purchase, Bombas donates another comfy pair to somebody facing homelessness.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
All right. Next up is Lily. Okay.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Invisible Children was like a fairly religious group, too? Or most people involved were... Like, Southern California, Orange County religious people? Right.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Everyone I know that was involved in Invisible Children are very religious.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
And he was the one that was going to stop the current government from doing this?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Oh, he was the one kidnapping. Kony 2012 was anti-Kony.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, it's three birds with one stone.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yes, we've got April 13th in Portland. Yes. And April 18th in San Francisco. Buy tickets to both. There's still tickets.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, no, it's a nice hub.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
yeah because we've been sending people to my instagram and like other places so if we talk about anything chances are it will be on that website it's just all things flightless bird because when you go to david's instagram you got to deal with like weird animal stuff he's really plugging his web web worm all the time yeah yeah it's a it's a mess you'll be like what is this it's like if your hair was a social account
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
What's the prize for the winners of these competitions? If it costs that much for them to enter?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
No, we'll keep the form for this kind of open. Yeah, cool. So anyone wants to submit for future Flights of Fancy?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
You bring your catheter, David. Yeah. Amazing.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
It's bit.ly slash fbfancy, all lowercase. You can submit ideas that you have. Yeah. Every once in a while, we're going to do one of these.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, it allows us to get very niche. The ability to center a topic around talent versus the other direction where it's like, let's do something on Cheesecake Factory and who do we know that works there? Can David talk to their PR company and get brainwashed by them?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, famously she got sent to one when she was a teenager.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Or banking? Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
who can really like take you into a topic you're kind of like stranded and so flights of fancy is a way to sort of meet people who are like no i can bring you into this world that you never would have thought of before it's reverse engineering what we do and it allows us yeah it is to have really good talent and then know like okay this is this seemed like a weird topic but uh there's actually this whole world perfect person that can take us through it and
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Just a misunderstood teenager from your parents.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Once you saw ice, you couldn't stop.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
What's your ice situation at home? Do you have the Mercedes of ice machines in your kitchen?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Is that the cheapest ice to produce?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Blowing my mind. Did you get that? No. It was a cheese pun.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Go again. Go again. Go. Did you Havarti a good time?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
We've been meaning to do it. It's just... Wisconsin's far.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
And there's the Dells. Like, there's a lot to do in Wisconsin and Chicago.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
It's interesting. I think there might be a tie of like people that left the religion. So they were kind of rebellious of what they were expected from maybe overbearing parents that are just trying to do the best but don't know where to turn. And then some of those are more extreme. So they sent them.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Okay, that's okay. See if he remembers.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Or maybe one of these facilities, just they have our podcast playing a lot.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
It's the torture that they're giving them is listen to this Kiwi talk about how he feels about America. It's true.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Since we know a lot of our listeners come from... They've left the church. Yep. Proselytize our... Our show. Spread the word of David. I am the new Jesus in this situation. Spread the word of David to as many people as you can. It's very important.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Okay.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
I don't know. It just helps to share it. Or go door to door in your neighborhood. ask if they've heard Flightless Bird, pull it up on their iPhone on Spotify and hit play.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Is there a specific part of Wisconsin we're starting at?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, I mean, the birdies... The birdies are real easy to deal with. No, it was not that hard. It was literally... Yeah, amazing.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Okay.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Why do you need to say that?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
No. A Packers thing. Is there a team?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
There's a place for both. Okay.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Oh, so you're lactose intolerant. This is a real issue. Were you lactose intolerant before you got into cheese or was it because you had so much cheese that it made you?
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
I mean, they got Wisconsin Dells too. Cool. Of course. Yeah. So we're going to do both of those things when we get to Wisconsin.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Oh, it does. It's true.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
No, I don't think so.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yes, definitely.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Some things I can't listen to anymore. Cause it's like straight back in time.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
god but are you okay yeah you're okay i i've gotten past yeah it was like but like music was like while you were listening to that i was probably listening to creed or something you know just to like grapple with your emotions
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
When you had that breakup, what was the context for you? Like in your room, like door shut, like headphones on, like crying. Were you like walking around moodily around the neighborhood? Like what was the context?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It's very like, it's a very like emotional breathy delivery, isn't it? It's very, yeah, it's very intense.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
But it struck me recently that I'm now living in the country that gave birth to emo music out of the mid-80s hardcore scene in Washington, D.C., according to a brief look on Wikipedia. And when I saw an advertisement for something called Emo Night here in LA, I saw it as a sign from the heavens or hell or maybe purgatory that it was finally time to do this episode.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Why would this be controversial? Because it's not... What genre would it be if not emo?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, it's a man with a guitar singing about a relationship or a person with emotion.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
what you have played, I would not typically in my brain associate with like intense emo. Like for me, emo is, it's what me and Rosa were talking about in New Zealand. It's like, it's literally, it's my chemical romance is like King emo and fallout boy. And, um, Brandon Urie? What was his band? Panic at the Disco.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And I feel that opens up a whole other world as well of art and other stuff.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Also, that probably says a lot that these people are all still making music and are still, most of them seem friendly and like doing stuff together. Like, that's a long time. Like, it's longevity. Yeah, some. Okay, and amongst some of the explosions.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So grow out that fringe and get ready to argue a lot about the origins of the scene and what it all means because this is the Emo Episode.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Did you know how special that was at the time? Were you aware? Or was it just part of your world? Because as a fan of music, that would be such a buzz, especially as well when you were a kid.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And also you're working with them as well. You're making their merch and stuff. So it's kind of like on even ground kind of a thing.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And would the kids at school know that you're involved with those groups or they have no idea?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
yeah you weren't going around being like that's me yeah how surreal so it was a it was like a weird it was like the people that i didn't like though too yeah you're like this isn't for you yeah like stay away like this is yeah that's so fascinating what's that thing you hear about from some bands right occasionally they'll look out into an audience and just be like oh my god like those are the fans like i'm not making music for you yeah well in a way you know
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
But then them finding their way to this thing that was like, yeah, mine, not really, but no, no, but you had that connection to it. Yeah. The emotional connection. And then suddenly all these dimwits are just like discovering this like cool new thing.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Damar's an incredible drummer. I follow him on Instagram. Yeah, such a good drummer. And a nice human.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, Three Cheers was Sweet Revenge. I came in and New Zealand Black Parade was the one. I had to give you your own slide because I knew this was your... Yeah, for the record, I love this album. I think the Black Parade is just like a masterpiece. Beautiful.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Oh, that's so good. It's actually almost the opposite to today's topic being sunny because we are looking at emos and emos are grey and emotional and down.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Your knowledge of this is encyclopedic, by the way. This is kind of blowing my mind. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Aura Frames. Now, are you ready to win your mom over on Mother's Day and cement your reputation as the best gift giver of all time? Because I certainly have. You know how I did that, Rob?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Well, actually, I did this last Mother's Day, but I sent a whole load of new photos to her frame. So she now knows what her favorite son, because I'm definitely a favorite over Rob, is up to.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So honestly, my parents don't read my emails, but they do look at what new photos are appearing on that AuraFrame. Aura now has a great deal for Mother's Day. For a limited time, listeners can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off, plus free shipping on their best-selling Carver matte frame. That's A-U-R-A frames.com, promo code BIRD.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Quince. Now, you know when a new shirt just becomes your go-to? That's what happened when I picked up a new piece from Quince.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It's really, really good. The best part about it all as well, that everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. So when you buy 20 versions of the same thing, it's still good value. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middleman, Quince also gives you the luxury pieces without those crazy markups.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And they also work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics. And finishes. I'm going to the Magic Castle for the first time very soon. And I have to wear a suit. And I had a suit, but I didn't have a dress shirt anywhere. Quince, they sorted me out. Love it.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It's funny, like these people who are in bands, like Lorde's first producer who produced her big record.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
joel little he was in like this pop punk band yeah and then he retired that and has just become this producer now that you know he's worked with everyone from like taylor swift to ella and it's just it's these people right they know how to make a pop song and then they go behind the scenes i think he won grammy or producer of the year he won a grammy this last year for it yeah
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And was your pitch just take this theme and please make it emo? Yes, exactly. And they absolutely nailed it. Yes. And one of the joys of those live shows we did was having a band redo our theme song every show. And I love it. And I love, God, that was good. It sets the tone, right?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Uh-huh. Oh my god, that is such an early 2000s album cover right there. This presentation is... I love this.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
yeah i've got audio from emo night to play as well this is insane panning the disco coming out of there know them well and then jimmy world also huge in new zealand i feel like that's so interesting so these bands all made it to new zealand all big yeah yeah yeah and i wonder if that's just an la thing i mean a lot of these people especially when we come and they come out and do our show like a lot of them have toured in new zealand
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Oh, I love this. Okay. Let's come back to that at the end. This is good. This is good. Some of them probably just like balked you straight away. Yeah. We don't want to talk about it.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So I kind of... I don't know, I found a few sort of interesting things about this topic. And I thought maybe something slightly entertaining to do would be when I was back in New Zealand, first starting in journalism, I was a light entertainment reporter.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And just as I was thinking about this topic, I'd completely forgotten, but I interviewed Fallout Boy and a few, I think maybe them a couple of times. And I thought maybe just to humiliate myself, We can maybe watch some of those clips. And it kind of reflects how I thought about emo music at the time and maybe how... I don't know.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I find it funny looking back at myself because I don't even remember really doing it. I find it funny looking back at you. It's funny. I mean, you know, I had a certain voice and I just saw some context. I was like this late night. I was trying to be edgy and try and put a twist on things. This stuff's hard to look back at for me, but I thought we could all laugh at it together.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Oh, that's insane. Is he okay? Yeah. That's also very American, the whole tornado thing. That doesn't happen in New Zealand where someone's like, I couldn't deliver the theme song because a tornado ripped through my neighborhood.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
As people, Fall Out Boy are quite small. The tallest is about 5'9". But as a band, they're massive. Their new album, Infinity on High, hitting number one in America. And their single debuting at number one here.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
They formed six years ago, and in that short time, they've started their own record label, launching the career of various bands, including Panic! at the Disco.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So Pete made one, signed Panic, and then decided to go a step further, which included starting his own clothing line and film production company. Is there a master plan going on there?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I mean, it's amazing he even did it. Yeah. Okay. I'm excited about this episode because I also feel like you know a lot about this. I know less about it, but I'm eternally fascinated.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
You can't really argue with that logic, and not many people do. Heck, they even got Jay-Z on board to intro their new CD. And at a meet-and-greet session in Auckland, their fans got a chance to meet them.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
They do have an obsessive fan base, which is why they don't Google themselves, especially after a photograph was taken with one of their many awards.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
There was no tonguing in our interview, but at one point they did steal and play with my oddly shaped microphone, all part of the fun in their first ever trip down under.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
He was the sexy bassist, which is very rare in a band. And I think they would write together. That was my moment with Fall Out Boy. The other story I wanted to play was me, I guess, trying to take the piss out of the emo scene in New Zealand a little bit. Yeah, this is pretty cringe to look back on.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
The Lost Prophets, just one of many bands at the forefront of today's modern emo movement, begging the question, what is an emo?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Now it's come to mean emotional. If you're an emo, you're more likely to hug your friend than give them a high five. And as for crying, not a problem. These days, emo is more commonly tied to fashion than to music, and is still a constantly changing beast.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Now emos come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and today, on Auckland's busy Queen Street, I'm going to try and find some. Now I'd just like to reiterate that I'm talking about emos, not emus. This is an emu, a flightless yet graceful creature, the second largest bird on the planet. They reach heights of one and a half to two meters and weigh around 60 kilos. This though is an Auckland emo.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
You can tell because of the long fringe and tight pants. They're not always alone, often moving in packs and can be identified by their Chuck Taylor shoes. As to what they listen to on their iPods, it's a point of contention for the emos and the bands themselves.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Emo, emu. David Farrier, three news. I was going to say, at the time, I thought that was the funniest thing ever. You coming out of the bushes was pretty... Yeah, I mean, I was trying to do like an Attenborough, you know, like a nature documentary, but like focusing on the emo, you know?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
but i yeah to me like it was emo music was not uh style exactly like it was a lot of band t-shirts it's funny because i so i feel like that's maybe where we mainly differ like my association was more the fashion because all those bands that you did this presentation on i didn't see one fringe in there at all and that obviously came like later i assume as it morphed into the stuff that was big in new zealand at the time well the stuff that i took notice of in new zealand
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
My friend Amy is in a band and she's been in LA forever. And I started just quizzing her about emo music because I knew it is debatable. And this is how that conversation went. Okay.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And he ended up filing these deranged reports on the 10.30 news. And we got a lot of really angry feedback from emos about that, being like, that's so offensive. From emos? From emos. Yeah, emos. I just thought I was so funny making that comparison. I thought this was the funniest thing I've ever done. I love how serious you were doing that, too. Oh, deeply. Yeah, always. Yeah, deeply serious.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Deeply deadpan. Okay, I think maybe we should play my encounter with Emo Knight. Yes. Which is a knight you have been to. But essentially, I started, as I was thinking about this topic, I started seeing a lot of ads. You know, like when you notice something, suddenly you see ads everywhere for it. I thought I need to go to Emo Night.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And I'm just going to read from their website to kind of explain what it is. Since they threw their first party in East LA, Morgan and TJ and a dedicated crew of regular attendees built Emo Night into a phenomenon.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
from what i could tell they basically just play hit emo songs um and throw a party they're just djing like emo hits it's not edm it's like big emo tracks well so i went vic was coming into town a couple months ago and said he was djing emo night yeah and was like you should come hang out right
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Well, so emo night, just like I couldn't, you'll sort of hear in the documentary, but it's huge. It's like a room packed full of like young music lovers. It's like a cool place to be.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And Emo Night played at Coachella. These DJs played there. So just to get an idea of the scale of what this thing was.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
That is, and how long did you set to like? It was like 30, 45 minutes. Oh Rob, you'd be in like, you'd be in your own version of hell. You'd just like want to hide behind him. Yeah. It's really, really good. This is my experience at my very first emo night.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
She got really angry at me when I was secretly recording her, but she went on this extended rant about the origins of where emo came from, and I wish I'd been able to capture it, but she got very angry.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
You've just come off stage. It's my first ever emo night. It was huge out there. It was big. Is that a typical night? Is it untypical? What is this?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Rewinding back to the beginning of all this, for someone that has no concept of emo or the genre or its place, you know, where it sprung from in America, can you talk a little bit to that? Like where emo came from?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
No, it was like, I'm trying to do an episode at the moment about ska music, and I'm running into the same problem of just being, there's too much. And so I'm so glad you're here to kind of steer this direction of what we're going to talk about, because it's such an insane world.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
What do you put that down to? Because from my perspective, you know, I'm from New Zealand. I feel like rewind to the year 2000 and emo was massive in my country. And I assumed it was going to be a short term thing. Here we are in 2025 and there is a night where you have people coming out. I mean, there's kids out there. They're not. I mean, I'm 42, which is crazy to say. There are kids out there.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
What is it about this genre that has people sticking around for it? Is there something I've missed that has kept people on to this?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Has it been a particularly surreal moment where there's been a certain person that's turned up or a certain night where you've just gone like, oh, that was surprising?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And I feel like I mentioned Paramore in the intro. I feel like maybe Paramore comes into that a little bit as well. They're more pop-punk-y. Even like Fall Out Boy.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Flightless Bird is supported by Square, and this is something that I can get behind incredibly boldly because when we were doing our live shows for Flightless Bird, suddenly realized to sell t-shirts to people after the show, we had to take payment.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
No, and I didn't realize in my mind, I was like, people can just scan a QR code or something and pay me that way or they can give us cash. I talked to a friend that was in a band that does merch and they were like, no, you need a square reader. I bought a square reader. We took it to our other shows. It's incredible. It's easy for us and it's easier for the customer because it's so quick.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And just quick for the customer as well. So yeah, I love Square. It's made our live touring and getting shirts to you guys so much easier.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Also, since we started using it, wherever I'm paying for stuff now, I just notice it's all Square. I understand it now. It's everywhere. Square keeps up so you don't have to slow down. Get everything you need to run and grow your business without any long-term commitments. And why wait? Right now, you can get up to $200 off Square hardware at square.com slash go slash bird.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Flightless Bird is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, I don't know what your experience was growing up in America, but I know growing up in New Zealand, Rob, the thought of doing therapy, it was almost like when online dating first happened, everyone was repulsed by it. Now everyone is like, this is amazing. Same thing with therapy. It used to be like this really... Stigmatized thing. Stigmatized.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It's wild how much has changed in society. And I think we're headed in a much better direction. Mental health awareness is growing, but there is still progress to be made. 26% of Americans who participated in a recent survey say they've avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. So that stigma still does exist.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Now, BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist from their diverse network of more than 30,000 licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
This is true. I feel like you don't often see them on a sunny day, but I guess you don't see many of them around at all these days.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I mean, that can be the pressure of therapy as well. It's like I am stuck with this person that I don't get on with because that match thing is really important. Yeah, it's really important to have a therapist that you can feel comfortable talking to. Basically, we're all better with help. So visit betterhelp.com slash bird to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash bird.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And I remember getting very annoyed at you at one point because I was actually getting into some of those songs. And you'd be like, no, on with the education. We're skipping to the next track.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Anyway, just also jumping to MySpace, is my memory correct that the thing with MySpace is you would have like top songs on there? Or is that my imagination? They had music pages. Yeah. I think they had players. So it's where you would go to like follow music, right? Like MySpace was the big place. It was Facebook before Facebook.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Well, when we did the Tegan and Sera episode, they talked about Myspace. Like, how they engage with the fanbase over that.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Wish both of our MySpace pages were still there preserved, just to see what we were saying and what our photos were. It was like a specific way you'd take a photo, like a selfie on MySpace at the time. Or maybe it wasn't even a selfie, just a style that you had. Very low-res, I'm sure, at this point. I mean, I'm glad my MySpace isn't there. My God. I really liked them.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
The main thing I found so surreal, and I'm curious how it works with licensing, is they were just there playing these giant songs. It wasn't their music. And DJs do this. But I've never been to an event where there's just full songs being played. It was like...
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I remember being in the audience at one point and just being like, oh, it is like if I close my eyes, I would just assume that Fall Out Boy is on stage playing right now. And that is why people are going this crazy. But no, it was just that track being played.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And it's that, but it's also like, the other surprising thing with Emo Night, it was like, like, I don't know how to describe it as an old man, but like, they were clearly cool kids there. They loved it. It wasn't anything embarrassing about it. These were like the coolest looking people I've ever seen in my life. And I felt so out of place. And generally, it wasn't like old people there.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
and like it was a packed stadium and it was a lot of young people so i had the same experience i um it's friends of mine youth code they opened for my chemical romance yeah they played at that giant where beyonce is right now that giant sofa stadium where they have the monster truck yeah So I went to see them play. And so I stayed for My Chemical Romance because I love My Chemical Romance.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
But they played five nights in that place and it was packed and they were kids. And I was like, you know, thinking back on this, taking the piss report, I filed for the news, like trying to be edgy and be like, emo isn't cool. It's like so silly. And I'm standing there as this like old man and like all these kids are there loving it. They're not being ironic. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
They're just appreciating the music, and that was kind of amazing. I think Nu Metal, to a degree, is having a similar kind of revisiting by kids liking Korn, not ironically, but genuinely loving it. It's a trip.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
from 20 years ago and i guess it's like everything like everything comes around again right it's like your fashion you're wearing what your parents once wore and you think it's like a cool thing it's like no they've been there and done that and i wonder how much of this is just us getting old and that's what every generation because it's not like does that as well led zeppelin was unique to just the generation no completely when they came out it's definitely us getting older as well
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
what i love i don't know i just think it's great that um this stuff still exists and i love that it's almost bigger than it was back when it happened the first time it feels like certainly with my cam five nights at that venue holy yeah i mean did all this start happening like right after covid actually maybe this is a good time so i spoke you hooked me up with um vic from pierce the veil
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
um you when i was researching this you're like you should just talk to him because he knows emo inside and out and i feel like he has good insight into what we're seeing with all this stuff being back again
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Very quickly, just as a quite annoying deviation before we get into your presentation, just some quick stuff about last week. Yes. Because we got a lot of feedback about the autism episode. But one thing I just wanted to clear up at the top, which I forgot about and I kicked myself because I meant to bring it up.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I'm wondering if you have any thoughts and opinions on kind of the origin of this genre and what it means to be emo here in 2025.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It must be kind of surreal for you and the band to look out into that crowd because you typically... I imagine you're getting fans that are... You've got fans that were there from the beginning that are probably our age, and then you've probably got kids there as well, right?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
got a whole lot of people emailing in saying, you must listen to this incredible podcast called The Telepathy Tapes. And I was just like, I wish I brought this up because I truly hate The Telepathy Tapes. It's basically, if you don't know, it got big because Rogan mentioned it on his podcast and instantly it went to the top of the charts. People are still finding it.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So I grew up in an extremely Christian house, so I didn't have music until I was 16, really. I was a bit of Britpop. There was a bit of Oasis and Blur that was big in New Zealand, but generally no music.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And then a friend handed me a CD wallet, and it had... like tool, um, nine inch nails slayer, more metal industrial kind of orientated stuff. And so I went heavy into sort of industrial, probably metal was my thing for a long time.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Well, yeah, you're figuring out who you are and music can help you do that. You know, this external thing, which I think is great. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And it's sort of like an investigative podcast, the central premise being that autistic children... Are magical, right? Yeah, they're magical beings. Yeah, essentially, they can actually communicate through telepathy. And so many people have written to me now being like, this is incredible. I can't believe this is happening. You should listen to it.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I think it's too much for anyone to handle. The volume of intensity coming at you and engaging in those conversations is so much.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I've heard about this big club night in Los Angeles, but it tours all around the place. Emo night? Yeah. I'm curious what your take is on that, because I'm going to go, and I understand it's basically people DJing massive emo hits and just getting a room moving.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And I just want to say at the front, it's out of bollocks. And it's also... Like Bigfoot, I kind of love delving into telepathy. I can't even say it. Telepathy? Telepathy? Telepathy, I think. It's funny. But when you're sort of bringing this particular podcast in, it's just making like autistic kids magical little fairies. And I've listened to the whole series.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
The loveliest human I've talked to in a long time. He was absolutely lovely. He just recently had a new child.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah. And I think what you said is something you've talked about as well of... This particular music did just connect with a certain generation. Maybe it's doing that all over again. You know, the stuff that makes me grimace about it, about how earnest it is, that also does connect.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah. Do you know what Warped Tour is? I'd heard of it, but had no idea what it was. I thought Warped was like a skating, like a Vans or something.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Just really quickly, I forgot I put this in my notes. A listener, I can't remember if it was, emailed a playlist called The 2000s Indie Scene. And the subject line was just, is this Rob? And I'm just going to show you the photo because I do think that could be an emo version of you.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It'll be like you're being guided into the world of emo via Rob's taste. It'll be a journey. And you come out the other side knowing everything you need to know about emo. The other thing... that jumped out to me about this topic, and I thought it was amazing, was this giant fight in Mexico City between emos and punks. I don't know about this. Had you heard about this? No.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Okay, this blows my mind. So this is from the incredibly great and always accurate information source, wikipedia.com. Your favorite source for news. My favorite source for news. No, it is actually kind of amazing. So emos versus punks, that's what we call the phenomenon now, were multiple confrontations that occurred in 2008 in Mexico City between emos and anti-emo groups.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It ends with them kind of communicating via angels in heaven. And it's the most – stay away from it is my main point. And also a lot of people sending me videos of a man who has created ice cream out of the cum tree. Have you seen this video?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
In brackets, mainly punks. So, like in New Zealand, the emo movement got really big in Mexico in the early 2000s. And yeah, in this one year in particular, in 2008, there was just a massive standoff. It was in March, where the big one happened. A group of emos was attacked in the capital, alleging that the emos were attempting to expand...
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And take over more zones in Mexico City, anti-emo groups of punks organized a confrontation at the traffic circle on March 16th, 2008 via social media. Police partially controlled the mob.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
But the reason this whole thing settled down is that members of the Hare Krishna movement were on a little, you know, they're sort of, they're banging their instruments and walking through, and they neutralized the fight.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Which is one of the best facts I've ever learned. The idea of Amazon punks like fighting and then being disbanded by... Not by the cops, but by Hare Krishnas. So this is a clip from Mexican TV that played in 2008. It captures the chaos.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, that was their version of my new sign-off. So, look, key details there. A bunch of emos and punks fighting, and you heard the ting-tanging-tonging of the Hare Krishnas. Yeah, dancing their way through. Dancing their way through, and that ended the entire thing, which blows my mind.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
When I say emo, what comes to mind for you? Because I know in New Zealand, we had a lot of emos, sort of a thing in the early 2000s, right?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, it was minimal. Yeah. I wish the goths would come back. There's small pockets of gothdom around the place, but I feel like it definitely hasn't come back in the way that the emo scene has come back.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So I went through a very short-lived phase of being into a lot of goth music, and I went through about maybe a week of school of painting my fingernails black. I can see that. And that was my goth phase. I'll see if I can find a photo. There might have been some black eyeliner as well at some point, but I can just say it did not suit me at all.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
He's a guy who basically makes intriguing ice cream flavors and it's cum tree season. We did an episode on the calorie pear tree a while ago. And essentially he went and harvested all the flowers of his local cum tree and And he blended it up and turned it into an ice cream.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
No, it would have been like the Down the Spiral. It would have been some like Marilyn Manson records. Like fairly big bands that were considered goth. I didn't get into like Christian Death and all that stuff. But yeah, I just like, I think goth is probably more my bit of ministry thrown in there, that kind of thing.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I think that, yeah, that is like the joy of getting into a scene so specifically, right? It's like it spins out into so many other things.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, it's just interesting at that age as well. You are just so defined, like you don't have much to define yourself by it because you haven't had many life experiences. And so you latch on to a TV or certainly me, like latch on to a TV show or a band and that becomes your entire identity. Which is why you do become so passionate and why Mexico City had fights between emos and punks.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Because, yeah, it's like it becomes part of you. And I miss that as being an adult. Because I still try and get into some new music. I don't want to just listen to the stuff that I listened to as a kid. Which, of course, I'll always do. But it's harder to get into new stuff and have that same level of like, this is me and this is everything. As an adult, you can't do that shit as much.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It's just this ultimate thing of being like, oh my God, we're all in this together. And this is amazing. And that's another thing I miss as an adult as well. We're both, I think, been very lucky to go to a lot of shows now. But you're always chasing that thing. I wish I could have that same level of excitement that I had as an 18-year-old going to something. Yeah. but you'll never will.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Cause you'll be like, you can be seeing the most amazing thing, but we're so like numb and we've seen so much that you can't get that same head. It's just chasing all of your kids. Like imagine like, like what, um, your kids are going to experience, like what shows will give them that feeling. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I can't wait till they rebel against your taste and they just go to something that you just find incredibly obnoxious.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
But yeah, they'll find joy in whatever they find joy in and that's kind of amazing.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It smells like cum. The taste is more ice cream flavored. But so many people are sending it through. And just a PSA, please stop sending me videos of the cum tree ice cream. I've definitely seen it by now.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
To see how they feel about the genre of emo and being categorized potentially.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Okay, I'm going to read out As Tall As Lions. So this is Sean Fitzgerald from As Tall As Lions. Okay, so for As Tall As Lions, I don't think so. I never liked that term applied to us, but sometimes you can't help what genre people put you in. We were from Long Island, and from that earlier 2000s period...
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
We're on a label and toured with bands that I think would fit that moniker, so I totally get it. I guess I would like to think that our music was a little deeper than that. Oh, controversial. When I think of emo, I think of Hot Topic. Oh my God, Hot Topic. That's an episode we have to do. And whining and some sort of punk or hardcore flair.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
When I think of my band, I don't really think of those things. Maybe whining with a little side eye.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
i love this um all right and then we got kirk from gaspy's american dream okay he replied i think we were lumped in as part of the early aughts mall emo alternative fresh scene but that was because we just happened to be a band at that time but we were always told by labels that we should write songs more like the big emo bands at that time But you'll read about it in the Volcano liner notes.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I think we all believe after Why We Fight, we were just a rock band influenced by prog and indie artists. He goes on. This is great. You brought out a lot within this.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Or yes, we're definitely emo. Okay, he goes on. I also think lyrically we don't fit the emo thing because so much of that music is topically about inflicting pain because a woman heard the songwriter lull. And there's not a single Gatsby song about a singular woman or personal relationship. Good argument on that.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It's funny. It is cool. Once you do an episode about these topics, it is amazing how listeners find every aspect to that. It's kind of incredible. So yeah, there is now a country ice cream made by one particular man. Wouldn't recommend it. Just have vanilla, you know? Okay. Emo music. I'm ready to be educated. Take me back to school. All right.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
bobby always said theater was bobby bobby was the one of the songwriters for guess who's american dream okay bobby always said theater was lyrically a rebuttal to all of the thematic elements that saves the day song about drowning a woman in the hawthorne heights songs about cutting someone's throat etc i'm lost here you have to fill in some
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, but the mass sum was like, I'm a man and this woman has done wrong. She has made me feel terrible.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I mean, this is intense. I am I, and the world is a woman, and from who I must take, take, take. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah. Well, it's a dark sort of note to end on.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Emo adjacent. For sure. Okay, I think that's the most direct answer we've gotten so far.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
That's really good. I feel like Mexicor also fits into that battle between punks and emos in Mexico. I think of that.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, we were definitely emo, but in a piano rock Ben Folds type way. That's a great answer.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I would say that I've grown into accepting that term to describe the band over the last 20 years. These days, I just embrace the descriptor. I love that. That was a really interesting social experiment. And very, oh my god. There's more.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
This is wild. Yeah, I mean, Wonderwall. I mean, they are sort of droning on about love in Wonderwall. And Oasis was one of the first groups I ever got into. I never knew they were emo.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Well, I know others have said we are emo and others have said we are pop punk, but I always thought of us as shittier versions of all the alternative, terrible name for an entire genre, bands who blew up in the wake of Nirvana in the early 90s. The shit I grew up on ranged from Pavement to Weezer to Swerve Driver to Flaming Lips to Superchunk to Jawbox, etc.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And I also love everything from The Cometers, Tom Waits, Venetian Snares, Del the Funky Homo Sapien. um i mean uh i like a lot more than that but i think listening to an eclectic mix of shit broadens the landscape of your music related art making and yet all my music sounds more or less the same so what the fuck do i know i don't care what people call us
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
You play with Fall Out Boy and Blink-182, and if Mark Hopper's produced two of your records, of course the pop-punk handle is going to happen. You play with Taking Back Sunday and My Chem, and then your emo. I'm just down to party.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah. And I think that's like a quote to take into the week. I'm just down to party. Whatever you're into, just be into it and accept it and get on with life. Well, I feel educated. I have been expanded beyond the concept of just thinking emo music is defined by a long black fringe and like some piercings.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And it was also just deeply embarrassing looking at my old reports from New Zealand. Okay, a little bit of feedback. As I mentioned at the top, a lot of feedback to our autism reveal party. Thanks to everyone that emailed in. I want to do some blatant self-promotion now, if that's okay. Because a lot of people wrote in with some other kind of spicy-brained stuff.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And it just turns out I'd written about a bunch of this stuff on Webroom. So in regards to prosopagnosia, which is what I have, face blindness, ages ago I spoke to a doctor about what is going on when people can't recognize faces. And you can find that, I'll put this in the show notes, but that's at webworm.co slash p slash super recognizer.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
um also that story i wrote about the telepathy telepathy tapes it's called telepathic children do not exist that's at webworm.co slash p slash telepathy tapes again i'll put that in the show notes and some other links to stuff i've written i also interviewed my friend kate who has a condition where she you know actually this is i'm curious about you rob like if i say like picture an apple can you see the apple in your head
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
That's me as well. My friend Kate has a condition where she can't see, she can't imagine anything in her mind. If you say picture your bedroom and where things are, there is nothing. She's just got like nothing in there. And she has an entirely different way of visualizing things she's seen. And so that blew my mind.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, a few people wrote in just essentially saying it was good to be clear.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And also remembering that, yeah, they have a three-year relationship. They know how to communicate with each other. And I think, yeah, there was a perception, I think, that we both had of like, is this site being a bit mean? Or... But yeah, they have, and they're also like both, he's a comedian, she's very funny. Yeah, yeah. They have that dynamic as well.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
part of the learning is not just to like look at someone and judge the way they are acting and be like they're this or that and i think part of it is we're not neurodivergent and if someone was treating us like that we would read into that differently yeah i think if you're not autistic it's a different we have a different read yeah on how things are yeah and it's interesting to think that like oh that actually is helpful
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah. Laurie wrote in, she said there are groupings of characteristics used to classify the diagnosis, but ultimately, if you've met one person with autism, you've met just one person with autism. One thing that stuck with me is something a psychologist told us during an initial evaluation of my son at age two. There have always been quirky people.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
We just have a name for it now and we do not institutionalize them. When Lisa, who was the expert we spoke to in the episode, when Lisa said essentially the same thing in the episode, I was hollering, yes, thank you, much to the delight of my dog and the neighbors. Andy Roden speaking to kind of what you had spoken to before, Rob.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
As a late diagnosed autistic person myself, I get the vibe that his girlfriend just wanted answers and to figure out how to best live and work with her boyfriend. Like having this answer opens up a whole new perspective on what his needs are and what adaptations can be made so that both of their needs are met in the relationship.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Gina said, Gina wrote in about, this is the kind of email we got about the telepathy tapes, which is like very typical. Be prepared to get your anti-woo-woo challenge by listening to the telepathy tapes podcast, which documents the way some non-verbal persons with autism can communicate via telepathy, mostly with each other and sometimes with their families and teachers. So fascinating.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
The podcast delves into the nature of consciousness in general. Just to reiterate. Yeah. Terrible pseudoscience. Telepathy tapes. Don't listen to it, please. Jay said, I just listened to the autism episode. I just wanted to say thanks. I have a two year old who was diagnosed with autism at the end of last year. I feel really grateful and privileged to have access to the resources she needs.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I also have a teenager who is neurodivergent and I myself have been in the process of getting a diagnosis. Hearing stories from people on the spectrum and the people who love them has made such a difference during a time when I find myself still figuring it all out. I burst into tears when I heard the hook reference, There You Are, Peter.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I have struggled to articulate my feelings around getting the diagnosis for my little one, and this just hit home. Sorry for the long message, but I just had to thank you for doing this episode, especially during these insane times." And this is Autumn who spoke to what you were saying, Rob. Thanks for addressing the topic in a thoughtful way.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I wanted to defend and encourage the girlfriend at the autism reveal party. I was late diagnosed autistic at 40. It's helped me understand the world and my place in it a little better. I would not have survived my autistic tendencies in a neurotypical world without the kindness of blunt people. I can't read between the lines.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I personally don't know what is considered weird unless someone tells me. And I think that's what you were speaking about earlier. Kathy wrote in about Bigfoot, which we mentioned in our Portland show. I think everyone is missing a vital piece of the puzzle when looking for Bigfoot. Don't hunters look for their prey's droppings to know what kind of animal they're hunting or looking for?
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I'm only guessing because as an Australian, I don't hunt, but I do know that kangaroos have been in my front yard or at the park because they shit everywhere. I thought this was sort of talking to your point, which was like, why haven't Bigfoot bodies been found? As a Bigfoot defender, I would say... You're a Bigfoot defender now? Someone has to defend them.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I think what Bigfoot are doing, they're intelligent. They don't want to be found. They clean it up after themselves. And so when they shit, they fucking bury that stuff.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
They devour the dead, or maybe burial. Maybe they throw them in a river, tie a rock around their ankles, and throw the body in.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So that's why Bigfoot aren't like your silly kangaroo taking a dump on your lawn. They are highly intelligent. They don't want to be found, and so they are hiding.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I mean, have you looked at the United States? It's a big place. There's a lot of forest. There's a lot of places you can't even walk because it's too steep.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So I just wanted to clear that up, Kathy, just letting you know that's why.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
And I thought that would be a good place to end just on that big bit of Bigfoot rebuttal. Great. Go listen to Rob's playlist that he's made for you. It's in our show notes. It was painstakingly created over the last three years. And so listen to that. And yeah, as always, we are flightlessbreadchat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
With any feedback, if you want to find out where to stream us or watch us on YouTube, our website is flightlessbirdpod.com.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
seventh eighth ninth grade and that's when you're like your feelings are at maximum volume right yeah and you're you're learning about love for the first time and like feeling these things it's one of the like saddest things about getting older is you can never reach the peak of that level of like feeling big feelings yeah like it's so annoying how you get numb to that shit
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Do you think it was like more, it was like, it was more mellow, but you also like process emotions as opposed to just being like feeling like worked up. Yeah. Over like an aggressive, like big beat.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I love the idea of you being, like, an angry, like, man in this room, like, listening to, like, a lot of aggressive hip-hop.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah. Yeah. I also just have to say that one particular album cover with him alone on a beach looking down forlornly, that is the epitome of what I think of when I think of this era of emo.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, growing up in New Zealand, there was this time in the mid-2000s when a certain American music genre seemed to get very, very big. If I remember correctly, it was led by bands like My Chemical Romance and Panic at the Disco, Fall Out Boy, and Paramore.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
that's really really good yeah i also want to say that thing and i guess kids are doing it differently now obviously but that thing i remember in sixth form um rodney marston handed me his like pack of cds like in a wallet and that was such a fun way of discovery into music because that kind of defined a lot of my musical taste because that album for me when rodney handed that over it had
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
a Nine Inch Nails record, The Fragile, and it had Tool's Anima. And that defined, still today, defined my core musical tastes and the genres that I like. Whereas I feel like you got handed a very different CD. And I think that shit sends you down completely different paths. And it's different, obviously, because kids are on streaming.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
But I think that was a very special thing of getting given an album that was such a mystery. You couldn't find out everything about them because the internet wasn't as much of a thing.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Exciting, yeah. We were given CDs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was like... It was such a definitive thing.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
So that's really interesting. So you're a fan of this music, and it's kind of like suddenly you're working with some of these musicians and this music that you like.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
Yeah, they're touring these, like, massive venues in New Zealand at the time.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
It's possible that you can work hard at something and suddenly you will be huge. And also, yeah, breaking out of, like, a small town. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. So, Spill Canvas, he was another one. Thank you, Spill Canvas, for doing our theme song.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
This is all very emotional. It's so earnest. Yes. As a New Zealander, we're notoriously not in touch with our emotions. And as a New Zealander, or maybe it's just me, I can feel myself crawling up inside myself, being like, this is too earnest. But beautiful. Amazing. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Emo Music
On every street corner, down every alleyway, there also seemed to be a teenager with a giant black fringe covering their face. I'm talking, of course, about emo music, and I can already feel fans and enemies reading their keyboards to send me messages about how those bands aren't even emo or aren't the originals or a host of other complaints.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Hello, Rob, how are you? I'm great. We have some big news. Big news. Before we get into today's episode, we have two live shows. Tickets are on sale. Tickets are on sale now. Right now. And if people don't come, we're in trouble. So we thought we'd better tell people.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Now I can upgrade my style by snagging killer luxury essentials that sync with whatever my vibe and wallet say on a given week. Now, Quince has all the must-haves like Mongolian cashmere sweaters, they've got a lot of really good sweaters actually, from $50, iconic 100% leather jackets, and comfortable pants for every occasion. I'm also a big fan of their t-shirts because I'm a t-shirt guy.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
The best part, all Quince items are priced 50-80% less than similar brands.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
and by partnering directly with top factories quince cuts out the costs of the middleman and passes the savings on to us and quince only works with factories that use safe ethical and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes what's not to love as i said earlier i'm a big fan of quince's tees they have a 100 merino wool all-season short sleeve that i really like and their baseline colors are all great
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quince.com slash bird for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash bird to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash bird. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Symbiotica. Now, living healthy looks different to everyone. For me at the moment, it's trying to get eight hours sleep a night.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Easier said than done. It's doing exercise, makes me very sweaty, and just generally trying not to get too stressed out by things. And yeah, Symbiotica also keeps me living healthily. Over the last week, I've been using a bunch of Symbiotica's stuff like their Magnesium L3 and 8, which helps support focus and mood.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Friends had been telling me about the importance of Magnesium for ages, but I was ignoring them. And now here I am trying it finally. And yeah, it's a good thing. It comes in a little packet with liquid inside that tastes very yummy when you suck it back. And God, vanilla cream flavor is the one for me.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Symbiotica helps you maintain healthy habits all year long no matter what your goals are, supporting everything from your energy, digestion, immune system and mood. The travel-sized packets are great for me as I actually remember to use them each day and yeah, as the name suggests, they're really easy to travel with. It's one of the easiest things I've done for my health.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Symbiotica is one of the most trustworthy brands out there. They never compromise on quality and sourcing. Their products are free from seed oils, preservatives, toxins, or artificial additives. It's something you can taste and feel in every packet. I'm excited to be starting my journey with Symbiotica and I worked out an awesome offer for my listeners so you can try their products too.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Go to symbiotica.com slash bird for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash bird to claim 20% off plus free shipping today. To make sure Christian families didn't need to watch secular entertainment, they made their own, and Adventures in Odyssey was the big one. They made about a thousand episodes which mainly went out over the radio, but also came animated on videocassettes.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Doug, I won't have any of that going on here at Whitsend. I want you to leave. now. Adventures in Odyssey told the story of a school teacher called Mr. Whitaker who ruled over the town of Odyssey. He was also an inventor and had this machine called the imagination station in his basement.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
That way he could transport kids into various learning situations, be they other planets or directly into places like hell, or maybe into some kind of lesson about puberty.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
A lot of the messaging and focus on the family was around sex and sexuality. Mainly, not to have sex until you're married to someone of the opposite sex, and definitely, definitely don't be gay. Gay is very, very bad.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Today's topic is about a quite strange organization in America called Focus on the Family. And I was just wondering if you've heard of Focus on the Family?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Jennifer and Jeremy weren't the only Flightless Bird listeners I talked to for this episode. I talked to a whole bunch who'd been raised and focused on the family values. And one thing I noticed is how their stories all started to just blend into each other.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It's almost like they'd been raised by the same set of parents, which I guess shouldn't come as a surprise when their parents are all reading the same books. This is Zach, who's still a Christian, but doesn't adhere to the very specific breed of Christianity and ideas he grew up with.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Now, I'm calling you because you wrote in about focus on the family. We had quite a few listeners actually respond to this, which has been quite fascinating to me. But I'm just curious, rewind to what that looked like when you were a kid. Okay.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
To me, Zach's experiences mirrored those of Jennifer and Jeremy. Discipline was a huge thing.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
His house also had a media ban. If it wasn't media produced by Focus on the Family, it was mostly a no-go zone. American pop culture was not big in Zach's childhood.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Can you sort of describe from your perspective what focus on the family is?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Chapter 2. The Experts. It was clear just in my short time looking into this that Dr. James Dobson's organization had had a pretty big influence in a lot of Americans' lives. But how big exactly? To find out more, I reached out to the team at Strong Wills, a newsletter and podcast that talks a lot about focus on the family. Like everyone in this episode so far, D.L.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Mayfield was raised with this type of parenting, but later in life decided to dig a lot deeper.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Breaking the will of a child is exactly how James Dobson put it. And if you want more great tips, you can read a book I mentioned earlier, The Strong Willed Child. Dobson's other special skill was PR, spreading this stuff far and wide. As I also mentioned earlier, he had a media empire.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
The more you dig down into what James Dobson was all about, the weirder it gets. As DL just said, this was a man who was upset about young people protesting the Vietnam War or marching for women's rights. And Dobson's view on the world starts to make even more sense when you look at his heroes. And this gets pretty bleak.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
All this is alarming when you realize how involved James Dobson got in American politics and into lobbying specifically.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Ronald Reagan appointed Dobson to an advisory committee for juvenile justice. And throughout the 80s, Dobson influenced policy in all 50 states. He was the reason so many Christians voted for George Bush, and later, Donald Trump. And while Focus on the Family's 501c3 status means it couldn't lobby, they set up an affiliate group called Focus Family Alliance, which could.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
With revenue of close to $100 million a year, it spends most of its time lobbying against gay rights, trans rights, and abortion. Dobson also started another lobbying group called the Family Research Council. And that group encouraged other states to create their own lobby groups to do the same thing.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And in all that political lobbying, Dobson's main focus remained on getting his messaging to parents, and more importantly, to kids, which brings us back to Adventures in Odyssey again.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
The Revolution Hall, which is apparently a beautiful venue. I'm very excited.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Really? That's very American. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, who's your support system and how have they changed your life? For me, my main support comes in the form of friends. I have about three friends I go to for advice on most things.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, a few months ago, I mentioned Focus on the Family, a Christian group founded in the 70s by an American man called James Dobson. Dr. James Dobson.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
You probably know who some of them are thanks to this podcast. Another great option is therapy, which is why I also use a therapist. Because, hey, your friends don't have all the answers and sometimes they're way too close to you to give you ridiculously honest answers, the answers and advice that you need. Therapy can be a source of support for any area of your life.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And I think it's really important not to forget that. Now, for me, I've found therapy incredibly helpful to figure out, this will sound silly with my job, but how to talk to people about how I feel. Often in the work I do, I'm just asking all the questions. But when it comes to actually sharing with someone about how I feel, I'm really terrible at it. And therapy has helped me a lot with that.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Now, BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide. You can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties, and you can easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash bird to get 10% off your first month.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash bird. That's very American, it's true. But there's another aspect to all this that I can't entirely ignore right now. Chapter three. Focus on the family touches down in New Zealand. I don't want it to be the focus of this episode, because honestly, I'm still figuring this stuff out.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
But basically, while Focus on the Family is very, very American, it's not confined to America. In the 80s and 90s, his radio shows were broadcast in 164 countries, and that included in New Zealand. I grew up pretty Christian, and it turns out Focus on the Family was deeply embedded in the churches me and my family went to.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Thing is, until I started making this episode, I had no idea one slightly odd experience in my own childhood was thanks to Focus on the Family. I clocked this when I was talking to Jennifer and Jeremy. The biggest weird thing that happened in my childhood was I had some really cool Star Wars stuff.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And I think James Dobson in Focus on the Family did an article about how Darth Vader was modeled after some Eastern religion. And so suddenly all my Star Wars toys were thrown out. I think that's my biggest resentment about this whole thing.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I knew this was a pretty big thing in the United States, but I wasn't prepared for how many listeners wrote in going, yes, please do an episode about Focus on the Family. Apparently, a decent number of our listeners were kids during the 80s and 90s and were raised thanks to the parenting hacks of a child psychologist called James Dobson.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
D.L. also confirmed this revelation. Like me, her appearance also had a stage of throwing toys away.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Just to be clear, I don't begrudge my parents for this. At the time, they were doing what loads of parents were doing. I know this because I reached out to some other New Zealanders who remember the weirder parts of America creeping into New Zealand. Michael Frost and Shane Meyer-Holt run an excellent podcast called In The Shift, which is about the religion they grew up in.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
They're still Christians, but have very different beliefs to what they grew up in. I wanted to talk to them to understand how a deeply American religious organization, one with deep ties to the Republican Party, ended up in the little old New Zealand.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And when I say hacks, I mean a lot of spanking, weird ideas about sex, and a hugely popular radio show for kids called Adventures in Odyssey, which had an audience of millions every single day. As I started digging more and more into this topic, things got weirder than I expected. And as I discovered more about Dobson's politics and the fact he was a very, very bad psychologist.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Another thing, one cassette tape focused on the family sent out was the sex talk. And this stuff got really, really specific. I definitely got some of this stuff, but Michael and Shane have a better memory of it than me.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I just looked at you at the intersection because I was trying to look right. All of this, I think, comes back to this idea of compliance, of creating a compliant child. A child who behaved well and mirrored their parents' beliefs, therefore keeping them out of hell, which was, in Focus and the Family's telling, a real place.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So, get ready to find that spanking paddle or nearest belt and tell your kids you should thank me for this as you hit them repeatedly on the butt. Because this is the Focus on the Family episode.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Like if you messed up, it's an eternity being burned in a big pit of fire, being poked by big pitchforks and stuff like that.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I don't know how to say it. I wouldn't know. I'll just be looking for a local McDonald's. I'm very excited about that.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And James Dobson's 30 or so books made sure parents knew how to deal with toddlers, teens, and everything in between.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Former Focus on the Family executives say that Dobson's loving, family-first persona is far from the truth. They say he's actually sexist, racist, homophobic, and power-hungry. All things that probably don't come as a surprise if you've been listening to the last 20 minutes of this podcast.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, breaking the will of a child, that's pretty shitty parenting advice. Chapter four. what it all means. It's been really surreal talking to these New Zealanders, realising that a bunch of Kiwi kids were raised in a certain way all because of some American guy.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
A pretty bad child psychologist who not only reached into New Zealand homes, but into New Zealand politics. Back in 2007, it was Family First who supported a referendum for New Zealand to change the law so kids could be smacked more. And this brings us back to DL and a big point they wanted to make.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Eventually, James Dobson got too political for his own organisation and stepped back a little. His organisation still has the same beliefs, they're just a little sneakier, I guess. And that's not to say Dobson's done with politics and trying to shape society to his specific beliefs. He'll be doing that till the day he dies, which, at 88 years old, probably isn't that far away.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So yeah, James Dobson, what a guy. What a guy. I mean, I'm honestly still kind of taking all this in, but I think the main thing is the scale of James Dobson's influence was so big. And I feel like there's so many documentaries and articles and TV shows about these like wacky cults and extremism, but James Dobson has been this quiet kind of force. He's like the
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I have been spanked. By parents or lover? Or both. Both. Yeah, both in different ways. Although some psychologists would argue that they're linked, but let's not go there. Don't ruin my night. Yeah, so my parents in New Zealand and probably Hayden's, as he mentioned, they briefly went into this focus on the family mode.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah. And I remember within the church I went to, this is going to date me quite a lot, but Flintstones had like a feature film that came out. Our church said like, we weren't allowed to see that. And that was like the big hit of that summer. So suddenly Hollywood became this big evil thing back then. And it just really surprised me talking to Michael and Shane.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
how this stuff just made it into New Zealand so powerfully. And it also led to a big movement in New Zealand as well of a lot of parents homeschooling their kids because suddenly the school system was this secular evil thing that might, like, get your kids.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
To the point where there's this big focus with James Dobson that after a parent smacks their kid, the kid is meant to go...
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
thank you for doing that like i needed that it's that it's that clear cut just a total brainwashing it's a brainwash when you were sexually spanked did you thank them after as like a residual i don't want to get into that yeah they're like don't do that that like ruins the role thank you no and so it's so awful when you link any childhood stuff to like your current adult life very scary
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And just like something I came across and I forgot about this, Ted Bundy, this is like the power of James Dobson. So Ted Bundy was about to be executed and, It was either the night before or two days before he was due to be executed. He gave one on-camera interview and that interview went to Dr. James Dobson.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And so that's the power he had in his media empire and with his audience and with America to get that access. And so it's on YouTube. You can watch the interview. But what James Dobson did was incredibly cynical and incredibly tricky and And of course, Ted Bundy was incredibly manipulative. And this blows my mind.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Essentially, in the interview, Ted Bundy blames the killings on the pornography he watched growing up. And so for Bundy, it was him basically saying, this is why I did this, blamed it on pornography. And for James Dobson, that was just his way to say, hey, this is why porn is bad. Because if you're into porn... This is what you turn into.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And that's the power that Dobson had in America at that time. And still has because he has so many, he's attached to so many bodies that are still raising this money and funding certain causes. He hasn't gone away.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, and the lobbying is something that I want. I mean, the fact that lobbying is kind of allowed in America in the way it is, I'd love to do an episode around that, but it's one of those things that's almost...
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah. I want to figure out a way into that. Like doing Unhoused as an episode. It's just too much. It's like, where do you begin with that? Yeah. So I need to figure that out. You mentioned True Love Waits. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So it's weird because you'll find out sort of in the documentary, but going into this, I kind of didn't realize that focus on the family had affected so many New Zealand families. Yeah. And that was a trip. Have you heard about Focus on the Family and James Dobson at all? I don't think so, but Adventures of Odyssey sounded familiar. Okay, that rings a bell.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
no true love waits it didn't make it into our church but it was definitely a thing in new zealand and yeah the idea of basically i think you got rings you could wear it was the purity ring there's like a purity ring that was part of it jonas brothers were like that would not surprise me at all yeah but it still happens it's still a thing i think it's just less talked about now but this idea that you basically like yeah pledge your virginity to marriage
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Were you ever planning that? I was. So my whole childhood, it was very clear that I could not have any kind of sex or any kind of intimacy until I was married. It had to be that. That was so, so clear. And in my Christian school, there was no sex ed. No, I lie. There was one class we had. And it was basically a slideshow of venereal diseases.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It was basically like, if you do this, your dick will fall off or your vagina will get very sore. That was the messaging. We had a pretty similar STD-focused sex ed in elementary school. And you know, good to know about STIs. That's great. But not to be used as a scare tactic.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So they're vegetables that teach you about how to live your life. Yeah. Like carrots and stuff. Yeah. I think once you've been taught by a carrot or a tomato, it's like it's time to. I mean, VeggieTales is probably its own.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I mean, that's, I'm actually going to jot that down because that's very funny. The other thing that a number of people that I talked to for this episode talked about was how, and I definitely listen, I mean, this kind of is adjacent to Creed, but there were these Christian bands that were really big in the 90s, like DC Talk, Jars of Clay. Jars of Clay? Jars of Clay. Jars or Jaws? Jars.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I was hoping it was a play off of... No, no. Jars of Clay. Jars of Clay. And Newsboys. Those are the big ones. And I think Audio Adrenaline was another one. And basically, in my world, they were like...
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
like the rebellious because they were like rock bands that was like the naughty stuff to listen to although of course all it was was the same messaging yeah like the same but in our minds at the time that was like exciting rebellion so other kids were getting into like cannibal corpse or metallica or something or or nirvana
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
or whatever the equivalent is today we were like oh this is edgy but really it's all the same were these like concocted from the church was it that intentional or were they just christian kids that wanted to play wrong no no it was all encouraged within the church it was definitely all me like these are the bands you should like this is the thing like it was all part of that conversation but in my mind it was still like a naughty thing or like yeah an edgy thing to listen to
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Oh, right. Good question. I don't think so. I think they were literally people that had grown up in their own churches and had come together to make music. And because they are Christians, of course, they're going to make Christian music. And there they are.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Like so many of the bands in New Zealand, the secular bands came out of churches because that's where they had access to instruments and music.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And I feel I should give, I should give a massive disclaimer in the middle of this. I don't just want to be like a big, like Christianity bashing mission. This is a really unusual damaging part of it that exists, but not all Christians.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Because that's my question. Were you spanked at all? Because a lot of kids were in their 80s and 90s.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, they would have started getting the books and being like, this isn't for us.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah. And he was like, no, maybe we're not going to like door this shit. Do you want to hear a little bit from some of the books? Just a few little excerpts. I mean, just like make it worthwhile me reading through these horrible things. I sort of feel a little bit. So this is Dead at Discipline, which indeed I just checked the edition I ordered online. It was a second hand copy.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And the Ford is written by Paul Poppino. He was a known eugenicist. So not a great guy. But I marked a few pages and I sort of randomly read through. These photos of James on the back too. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
He was very tall. He was very like calm in his demeanor. His whole thing was like, I am a professional tall man and you should listen to me.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
No, I think just in the 90s, he was just operated within the Christian world that didn't really fight back. It was just happening.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
No, I just think... It was under the radar? Under the radar. He wasn't kind of sexy enough and culty enough. And we talk about Scientology, right? Everyone knows Scientology is kind of crazy. This was just a level down where it's not sexy enough for people to talk about it. But he was clearly powerful enough.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
But who wouldn't want a book written by a man about how men should treat their wives? You know? What else could you want? This is from a Q&A section in Dare to Discipline. This is a question from someone who wrote in, how long do you think a child should be allowed to cry after being punished or spanked? Is there a limit? Totally normal conversation.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And James Dobson answered, yeah, I believe there should be a limit. As long as the tears represent a genuine release of emotion, they should be permitted to fall. But crying quickly changes from inner sobbing to an exterior weapon. It becomes a tool to protest or to punish the enemy. Real crying usually lasts two minutes or less, but may continue for five.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
At that point, the child is merely complaining. It's timestamped. It gets weird. Parents of sick or deformed children are also likely to find discipline harder to implement. A child with a withered arm or some non-fatal illness can become a little terror. simply because the usual behavioral boundaries are not established by the parents.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It must be remembered that the need to be controlled and governed is almost universal in childhood. This need is not eliminated by other problems such as a withered arm.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
What do you mean? No one likes being... I mean, obviously some people do, but... Later in life. He just, like, got a kick out of it. Was it more like a thing to your parents, like, come at me, I can take this kind of thing?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Over two million copies sold. Over two million copies sold. You read this whole book? I flicked through. I didn't like put myself through the whole thing. If an eight-year-old boy is given an advanced understanding of mature sexual behavior, it is less likely that he will wait 10 or 12 years to apply his knowledge within the confines of marriage.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It just means don't let your kids know anything about sex when they're young because that will just speed up. the age they're actually going to engage in any kind of sexual activity.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
uh america okay swingers it's a swingers thing a wacky trend that'll go away so this is about the importance of indoctrinating your child with your belief system there is also a critical period when certain kinds of instruction are possible in the life of the child there's a brief period during childhood when youngsters are vulnerable to religious training that concepts of right and wrong
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
are formulated during this time and their view of God begins to solidify. As is in the case of the Gosling, the baby goose. Is that right, a baby goose? Gosling, yeah. Brian Gosling. The opportunity of that period must be seized when it's available. Leaders of the Catholic Church have widely been quoted as saying, give us a child until he is seven years old and we'll have him for life.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
The affirmation is usually correct because permanent attitudes can be instilled during these seven vulnerable years. Unfortunately, however, the opposite is also true. The absence... or misapplication of instruction through that prime time period may place a severe limitation on the depth of the child's later devotion to God.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Get the kids before they can think for themselves, and you'll have them for life.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah. One more from this book, and then I'll stop putting you through this. A question from a reader. My teenage daughter has admitted having sexual relations with several boys. Since she doesn't believe in God, she sees no reason for doing otherwise. What should I tell her?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
James Dobson says, you might make her aware of the fact that sexual freedom is expensive and most of the bills are paid by women. The natural sex appeal of girls serves as a primary source of bargaining power in the game of life. In exchange for feminine affection and love, a man accepts a girl as his lifetime responsibility, supplying her needs and caring for her welfare.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
This sexual aspect of the marital agreement can hardly be denied. Therefore, a girl who indiscriminately gives away her basis for exchange has little left with which to bargain. Your daughter might be reminded of the other expenses that are sometimes imposed by sexual irresponsibility, including those associated with venereal disease, unwanted pregnancies, and fatherless children.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
What a great attitude he has to women, whose apparently their only main bargaining power is their own sexual appeal to men. Yeah, nothing wrong with that point of view at all. I'm going to read one thing from The Strong Willed Child. Should we show this picture in the back again? Here he is. Look at him. Beautiful man. Who wouldn't listen to him?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
There's a whole chapter about how children are born bad. That's a great thing to instill in a child, that fact. And parents. How does one connect behavior with consequences by being willing to let the child experience a reasonable amount of pain when he behaves irresponsibly? And just goes on to, like, when you just make your kids. It's all the same.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So your tickets are on sale now. If you go to the show notes of this episode, they'll be sitting down in there. Or should we... I love saying Google it, but...
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It actually gets kind of boring once you start reading it. It's all the same messaging. Is this format all, like, question-answer? It was just, like, the most succinct places to read, because he rambles on and on and on, like, and on. But his attitudes spread around America and into the home and into New Zealand, which I just found surprising. And I'm super curious...
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
How many people listening to this will go, oh, that kind of explains maybe the way I was raised and why my parents went through this phase of suddenly smacking us. Maybe this was the reason why.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
They grew up in it, and they're still holding on to it today. And it fits their belief system perfectly. There's a book that I got that I'm halfway through reading.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
another one you want to promote it's kind of amazing yeah i've read half of this one though the jesus machine it's basically a journalist who got access to james dobson before he eventually got cut off because they were worried about this book he was writing um but it's sort of about the um whole power structure of focus on the family and it goes super in depth and it is um
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
pretty incredible recommended if you want more like in-depth stuff that's the place to go is he super wealthy now then yeah he's really wealthy doesn't do any interviews i emailed him just due diligence for the story uh didn't reply james dobson at gmail.com yeah same thing yeah but he's 88 he's pretty old he's still doing his um lobbying um through his various um arms
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
This is kind of amazing. I mean, I don't condone it, but is that God? The lights just shifted? Always worry about this when I'm talking about God and things happen in the studio.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And yeah, I just thought so much of America has him to thank for the way we are today. And we're not really talking about him. And there's a podcast behind the bastards. They did. Have you heard of that show? They basically just like, look at bastards from history and they did a double header on him, which is really good. But apart from that, there's not a lot about him.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Like that strong willed podcast talks a lot about it. behind the bastards and that's kind of it yeah i mean that's the part that um confuses me the most is like why he's not a more well-known evil figure all i can put it down to is he's essentially slightly too boring yeah but it's that simple like he's not quite the level of scandal yeah okay a little bit of feedback from some previous episodes
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Flightlessbreadchat at gmail.com continues to be a very busy place. Dave Anthony wrote in, who is Gareth Reynolds' podcasting partner on the dollop, in regards to Galaga. And he said, ha ha. This was a message to me on Instagram. On Walking the Room, which was his very old podcast, we had a whole weird thing with Gallagher. We did a live episode at the Bridgetown Comedy Festival.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
The festival had him come on as a guest and it was like a suicide note. He was so miserable and sad. It was genuinely bizarre and people were talking about it for a while. So yeah, he basically said in our old podcast, we actually had Gallagher on. And apparently he was a real downer at that time. Stella wrote in, in regards to the Kanye Squatter episode.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
um because of course god ordains the smacking that was kind of the philosophy of james dobson the soap in the mouth i thought that was kind of like a joke we're going to like wash your mouth out with soap and water that was actually a thing it was from a christmas story right i think in that movie i don't even i've never watched that movie embarrassingly well in that movie he gets soap in the mouth and has to like keep it in his mouth
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
She said that she went to school in Pepperdine in Malibu, where Kanye has a house. Everyone in Pepperdine goes to the beach near there. And one week, a few years ago, someone hung a Happy Hanukkah banner on the front of his house. And she sent a photo, and I thought that was pretty beautiful.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Kayla wrote in after listening to the Kanye Squatter episode, and she wanted to write about squatter's laws. She says, I majored in anthropology in college and took many history courses, and this episode reminded me of something I've learned during one of them. I believe that squatter's rights were invented during the time period of westward expansion and manifest destiny.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
During this time, people were given the offer of coming west for free plots of land. If they stayed there for a certain amount of time and were able to farm the land, they could stay. Of course, this free land was stolen Native American land, or land where indigenous people were still actively living, which led to a lot of violent interactions.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Kind of a sketchy move on the government's part, in which they didn't have to move or murder Native peoples, they could just have regular citizens do it. for them. This goes back to the way of thinking that indigenous people were not used to the land. Native people were not using the land properly and that white settlers could settle this land and make use of it better than the native people.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, totally. So it's funny. It's weird. You can talk about something like squatting. It seems like this current topic we're thinking about. About apartments that are abandoned. Yeah, it's gone. There's a history of how we got there.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, I'd been in Australia and I had decided, because I love John Safran, I knew he had written a book about squatting in Kanye's house. And if anything, my worry was that that episode would almost feel like old or irrelevant because Kanye had kind of vanished. We stopped giving a shit. And then we recorded. We recorded and then we left for Seattle. Yeah, went to do the live show.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, like really hit the fan. And I don't know the way he had an episode. He got agitated and suddenly it was horrific to the point where he had a Super Bowl commercial.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah. Just that. Beyond a piece of shit. You know, inexcusable. I know a lot of people with mental health problems that don't go down that particular path.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I mean, I'm trying to think of his fans. Say his fans, they're just like Kanye. They're not Nazis. They don't support Nazi ideology.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
But you didn't enjoy being spanked. It was like a punishment for you.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, we want to support this person, this celebrity that is saying what we believe.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
No, he's a black man. And that's where things get convoluted and insane. But the fact is people bought them. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And filing for divorce. Now, since that got published, apparently sources have come out now saying that's not happening. Not happening now. But that's where it becomes pointless even talking about it. Yeah. Because it's just changing so constantly. And, you know, again, something, you know, if you talk to me this about a week ago, I would say...
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
kanye's partner wife is wearing outrageous things this is like a bit you know sort of insinuating she is doing some unusual things but then also going on kanye there's a lot of dialogue around the fact that he is incredibly controlling yeah and how much is she willingly doing this stuff and how captive is she Yeah. And you look at some of that behavior on the carpet. I'm not James Dobson.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Oh, you're a good boy. Apparently. Wow, that's nice. Okay, look, before we get into the whole focus on the family thing, a quick bit of admin. We have these live shows coming up in San Francisco and in Portland. Yes. What are the dates? Do you have those around?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I'm not a psychologist. I can't comment, but you know, the movements and the way they're positioning themselves is not great.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So, you know, it's like, I kind of just want Kanye to go away. I mean, the other thing is, Elon Musk kicked him off the platform. He was so offensive, that guy removed him, you know? Yeah, I did see that too.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
That's the thing, I feel like if you... had been not listening for the last two months to anything going on in the world, you would tune into this and you'd be like, what are they talking about? Yeah. And that's how so much of the world seems to be right now. So yeah, that was a weirdly well-timed episode in a way on Kanye. And Squat is also a really amazing book.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It's stressful. We record this usually four or five days before release.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And so much can happen. But that's the world we live in. What is James Dobson going to do between now and when you release the episode? I don't want to know. Alicia wrote in, there's been a lot of people still writing about their own local versions of fake seizure guy. I just really found this one kind of amazing.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
When I was in college at the University of Wisconsin, I regularly saw a man lurking around campus known as Tunnel Bob.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
tunnel which just these names yeah they're good names i almost could just stop there tunnel were you tunnel davey i bring my tunnel dave over here oh my god i did love tunnels there's something of a boogeyman energy about him and he's alleged to have a dungeon in the steam tunnel system underneath the city he's been interviewed many times over the years and claims to have been exploring the tunnels since the 70s
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Here is a photo at the entrance to a steam tunnel that he's sitting on. And it's a pretty trippy image. It's just a man sitting above a tunnel about to descend. Tunnel Bob.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Basically, if you have any burning topics that you think we should know about in those cities, and particularly if you know of somebody with some great personal insights. So you might be like, oh, there's this amazing cult in San Francisco. That's great, tell us about it, but also if you know someone that's in the cult, or the leader of the cult.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It's really good. Has he tried it or is he way too scared? No, he's way too afraid. Of course he is, sensible. Especially if scientists have proven it, definitely don't do it. Lisa wrote in, I mentioned a YouTube channel, The Royal Family, who had done those videos post LA fires. I'm just finishing the inauguration episode and I'm screaming fucking royalty family and stupid YouTubers at my radio.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Any parent of an elementary and middle school age kid will tell you how much this family and all the ones like them suck. This could be an interesting episode for you, the evolution of child YouTube influencers and their families. It really started with Ryan's World and turned into a huge amount of obnoxious... Ryan's World. Do you know that?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I love this. As she said, it's just a huge amount of obnoxious, rude kids doing crazy, entitled things and normal kids obsessing over them.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yep, that happened. Think Mr. Beast Junior Edition. Royalty family, ninja kids, Salish and her annoying dad, Jordan Matter. I'm probably saying all these names wrong. Nidal Wonder. It's all so bad. It's just kids demanding they do some activity or get something insane and their parents say they will if they do these challenges. Like walking up to strangers and getting them to like and subscribe.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Uh-oh. Are we adjacent to this world? Are we just out of ourselves? Anyway, the more she talked about this, the more I thought this is probably a good topic for us. Like the rise of these like child and family YouTube influences.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
So yeah, thanks Lisa for clarifying how I wasn't the only one being driven insane by the royalty family. And I just thought this was a really cute message. Angus wrote in, he's a New Zealander that's been living in America for 23 years now. And he just said, love the podcast. You won't believe how I stumbled on it. I was in San Diego and a random Uber driver from Afghanistan introduced me to it.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
And I just thought, how cool is that? Just like an Uber driver being like, listen to this. I really like that.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
It excites me when people from different parts of the world are like, this is the show.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, thanks for listening. And we'll be back again next week, as always. Please do email in if you have any ideas for San Francisco or Portland. Portland. Plattsburghchat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
We would love that. We'll give you a shout out. People will admire your birds. That would be incredible. And it saves us like packing these up, our own studio birds into a suitcase. Cause they're really hard to transport. Yeah. That leg is going to break. It's a bad time. Yeah. That would be amazing. Uh, we'll see you next week.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, email us their details. That's a real help. And it's always flightlessbreadchat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah, weird sort of clubs. Just things that are specifically unusual to Portland and San Francisco. That would be amazing. I found out the other day that San Franciscoians hate it when you say San Fran. Well, apparently. So don't do that. San Francisco. San Francisco. Or just SF. Yeah. That would be really good. And also we are on YouTube.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I always forget to say, um, youtube.com slash at flightless bird podcast. So yeah, see us on YouTube and flightless bird chat at gmail.com. If you have any topics for those cities that you want us to know about. Now, I'm going to crack into this little audio documentary I made soon because it kind of explains what I'm rambling on about.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
But during the week, I did order these off various places on the internet. And I'm going to read out some segments later on. Data discipline is one of the big ones.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
No, I mean, I feel like I'm surrounded by so much weird now. It's just I'm kind of used to it. The Strong-Willed Child is another one. This is one that I would like to gift to you and Natalie. This is What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women. What every woman wants a man to write. Are you reading from this in the doc? No, it's afterwards. We can read some excerpts.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Yeah. I think I outlined a few things that I found compelling in particular.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
You just want it. Did you write this? Oh, no, that's the question. So that's a question. James Dobson would never say that.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Oh, boy. Disaster. Cool. Yeah, you almost made me think I was having a stroke when you were like, James Dobson wrote that? It's okay to have premarital sex? You got this all wrong. What the hell? But yeah, I particularly like the title of that book. All his books, he's written over 30, they all have incredible titles just like that one.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Really good. But yeah, show notes. It'll be in there. Grab tickets before they go. We'll be there. We'll do the show. It's going to be special. And I'm very much looking forward to visiting those two cities.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
But yeah, I'll read some more at the end because there's some pretty good stuff in there. But yeah, this is my journey into finding out what the hell Focus on the Family is all about. Chapter one, hearing from the flightless bird listeners, aka the birdies. Oh, hey, Jennifer. It's David from Flightless Bird. How are you?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
I'm calling Jennifer, one of many Flightless Bird listeners who'd emailed us saying we should do an episode about Focus on the Family. I'm good. It's now a good time to chat.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Jennifer's with her brother, Jeremy, and they're now both camped out in a tanning bedroom, which in my humble opinion is far superior to a humble podcast studio.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Conservative politics will rear its head a few times in this episode. It's sort of inescapable when talking about Focus on the Family. But I wanted to start off with the reason I was calling these siblings. They had been raised by parents who loved an organisation called Focus on the Family. What did Focus on the Family mean for you when you were kids?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Just to zoom out here a little, Focus on the Family was founded in 1977 by Dr. James Dobson. It describes itself as a church, which is handy for tax reasons, but it's basically a deeply evangelical Christian organization that said it was there to help build strong families. James Dobson was a child psychologist and positioned himself as an expert in how to raise good Christian kids.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
in either of those cities please let us know yeah flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com if you have dead birds not just dead birds but beautifully taxidermied dead birds in san francisco or portland we'd love to borrow them for like six hours that would be so good all right on with the show hello hi hayden how are you doing
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
For parents in America panicking in how to raise their own children, why wouldn't they turn to a godly child psychologist?
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
This was all happening at a time in America where physically disciplining your kids wasn't seen as a good thing to do anymore. Focus on the family was there to say, no, it's cool. Definitely keep hitting your kids.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
By the mid-90s, Focus on the Family was a multimedia empire. It had radio shows on over 7,000 stations, magazines, videos, Christian camps, and a really, really big mailing list. Dobson leveraged the newsletter like no one else, and their annual budget reached around $100 million a year. He's written over 30 parenting books with titles that haven't aged particularly well.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
His most famous one came out in 1970 and was called Dare to Discipline. He wrote another one about raising kids called The Strong-Willed Child. He also wrote a handy book for men called What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women.
Flightless Bird
Focus on The Family
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Quince. Now, elevating my style used to mean breaking the bank because clothes are expensive. But with Quince, I get high-end, versatile pieces at prices I can actually afford.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I don't want any scorpions anywhere near me. Pesty is also kid and pet friendly. The pesticides they ship are fully registered and have been used in hospitals and schools all over the country. And Pesty offers 100% bug free guarantee or your money back. If the bugs and the roaches don't go away, they'll give you a full refund. Protect your home from bugs with Pesti.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Go to pesti.com slash bird for an extra 10% off your first order. That's p-e-s-t-i-e dot com slash bird for an extra 10% off. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Spot and Tango. Now, Rob, you have a beautiful dog. I've met your dog. I've scratched your dog. I have tickled your dog's belly.
Flightless Bird
Deported
While most kibble is packed with fillers and mystery ingredients, no one wants mystery ingredients. With Spot and Tango, they do things differently. Their un-kibble meals are made with human-grade ingredients, including USDA meat, fruits, and veggies. There's no artificial stuff, no preservatives, and that's probably why Huxley likes the food so much. Lucky Huxley.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Using their fresh-dry process, fresh ingredients are gently cooked and freeze-dried to lock in nutrients, creating a shelf-stable, nutrient-rich meal that's as close to home-cooked as it gets. I think Huxley probably eats better than I eat. They create a custom plan based on your dog's age, breed, weight, and activity level. So you know they're getting exactly what they need.
Flightless Bird
Deported
That's spotandtango.com slash bird, code bird to get 50% off your first order. spotandtango.com slash bird, code bird. So what I've done, I thought we could go through just quickly a couple of the examples that we've seen in the press of people getting thrown into a van. And then I spoke to... I spoke. I spoke. Oh my God, you're fired. Get out.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I spoke to a Canadian woman who was coming back into the United States. She'd been back and forth. She was reapplying for a visa.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I guess she's a bit like me. She's like a privileged white person who was just doing her thing and then suddenly found herself in pretty abhorrent conditions for two weeks. So I talked to her in a little bit. But just to clarify some of the stories that have sort of jumped out at me and I think got you and I talking a bit about this.
Flightless Bird
Deported
columbia university student um mahad kali i'm probably butchering the name completely but he was leading a lot of those protests and there's actually a documentary that's come out that he narrated about it that's out now he was um in the lobby of his apartment building and he got bailed out by playing clothes officers his wife was filming um and was incredibly distressed pregnant wife
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, expecting their first child. And that was the first thing that kind of made me go, oh, holy shit, this seems crazy. This is a student who's leading these protests and this is happening to him.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And as we record today, he's still detained and he's had, I understand, like a first hearing, but he is still certainly not a free person. And yeah, sort of just wants to be home with his wife and everything. who was expecting their first child. So that was kind of awful.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Do you ever get worried that your poor friend David might get deported from the United States?
Flightless Bird
Deported
And then footage that was going around a couple of days ago was a female who got, she was just on the street and you see, you've seen the footage. Yeah. It's pretty distressing. Yeah. Cuffed big men in hoodies. They put her into a van and drive off. And she had also spoken out. There was an article I thought the NBC News wrote that kind of summed it up.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And the headline was just academic groups sue Trump administration for arresting students and faculty members linked to the pro-Palestine protests.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I don't know what the thinking is. I mean, here it feels like these student protests have become this hugely political thing, right? Of like, do we clear people out? This was all discussed last year. Do we clear these students out or do we keep them? And eventually they were all cleared out.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And there seems to be this ongoing angst from the Trump administration about universities daring to allow this to keep going, right? Yeah. But it's interesting that it's the students and the leaders of those that are being targeted as opposed to adults at the university who are running things. Yeah, or the guy from the Atlantic.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, what... Because optic-wise, piling students into these vans is not a great look, right? So it's like, if they're prepared to do that, then they're prepared to do pretty much anything. Yeah. Yeah, that's what seems scary about all of this. I guess largely the people being arrested aren't white, so there's that.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that's the other side of things, is that students are now being, like, booted out of these places they're paid to go to, and their education is now completely in limbo. Yeah. better than being stuck in detention for God knows how long, being cut off from the outside world. But there is legal action being taken. And so I guess it's just a matter of how all that rolls out.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And that's where, that's where my knowledge of this completely falls apart. And I want to, I feel like we should try and find an expert on this to talk on it because I find it very difficult to know how much this is going to keep crumbling or whether at some point there's going to be some court correction, course correction and the courts will,
Flightless Bird
Deported
And there's also the fact that even before all this, like courts, well, in any country, but I think particularly America, like they're backed up, like it's slow. And I feel all these things, there's so many cases that are happening. I just can't imagine how
Flightless Bird
Deported
just even like backed up and logistically difficult it is to process all this stuff which is maybe part of the strategy too of like we're gonna move faster than the courts and they won't be able to keep up with us what's like another version of like flood flooding the zone the shit right there's just so much at this that they can't keep up
Flightless Bird
Deported
I feel like I've said this a few times, but it definitely sort of makes me think more about my place in this country and how, you know, every time I apply for a visa, it's like money and effort and like America's not... You know, there's certain things here, you know, I pay taxes here now, but I'm still not allowed to vote because I'm only here on a three-year visa.
Flightless Bird
Deported
So it's like, this country doesn't make it easy to be a part of, like it's expensive and I'm lucky that I can pay to get these visas to work here. But I guess what I'm saying is it gets less and less appealing to be like, cool.
Flightless Bird
Deported
All right, I tracked down this Canadian woman, Jasmine Mooney. She wrote an opinion piece in the Guardian newspaper, a UK newspaper, about a week ago now, about her experience being detained. I read that. I thought it was really compelling and honest, and I guess... She was as close to me as I could see.
Flightless Bird
Deported
She's this privileged white person choosing to be in America and then suddenly finding themselves being in this deeply unusual situation. And so her case differs completely to what we've just been talking about. She wasn't at the protests. It wasn't this case. She basically was a Canadian who had been working for this water brand, which is a very American thing.
Flightless Bird
Deported
The water brand, I think some of it had hemp in it, etc. But she'd been back and forth on a visa for a while. Her visa had run out. She reapplied, but got denied because one of the letterheads wasn't on the bit of paper. And I've done this. Whenever I apply for an O-1, I have to have reference letters. All those reference letters have to have letterhead. One of them was missing it.
Flightless Bird
Deported
So she got denied. She went back to the border, I believe, in San Diego to apply entering the country. And that's when her problems began. I almost feel terrible bringing this up, but this is a podcast about American culture. And in New Zealand, American pie was a huge part of everything. I can't ignore that. Come on.
Flightless Bird
Deported
It's what every white person's always trying to do. It's what we strive for.
Flightless Bird
Deported
That's so funny. Isn't that like such a interesting, like look at the media and what they seize on. And, you know, everyone's looking to ground you in the story and that's a reference point. But suddenly that aspect is like blowing so far bigger than it ever was.
Flightless Bird
Deported
You grew up in Canada and we've been meaning to do a Canadian episode for a while. So just quickly, you grew up in a place called Whitehorse, I believe? Whitehorse, yeah.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Okay, and then you started working with this, an American brand, The Holy Water, right?
Flightless Bird
Deported
And so I'm here on an O-1 visa, which lasts for sort of three years. What visa did you get to work and live in the United States?
Flightless Bird
Deported
And everything was going relatively smoothly? You'd come in and out of America and things were pretty smooth?
Flightless Bird
Deported
I'm David Farrier, and New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. And as Hayden indicated, yes, I have been thinking a lot about me recently and how I fit here in the land of the free, because over the last month, things have been feeling increasingly less free.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Quince. Now, I recently went to two places. I went to Japan and I went to Mexico and I had an amazing time. And both those countries needed vastly different clothing. And the key items to keep myself comfortable on the road were all from Quince.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I took my puffer jacket and I took a series of tops and shorts from Mexico. And I had a great time and it reminds me why I love Quince so much.
Flightless Bird
Deported
They are also priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands, which is a massive saving. And by partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings directly on to you and me.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And so for your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to quince.com slash bird for 365-day returns plus free shipping on your order.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Flightless Bird is brought to you by BetterHelp. Now, for me and probably a lot of you listening, therapy can feel like a big investment. You think, oh gosh, what could I spend that money on? Let's talk numbers.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, with BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and on time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. And with online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to just everyday stress. And I don't know if you've noticed, but the world is pretty stressful right now.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I have found therapy very helpful when it comes to relating to other people, especially with conflict. As a New Zealander, I'm terribly bad at conflict. I don't know how to do it.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I send snarky texts, a lot of passive aggression, a lot of just not talking about it. Therapy has been helpful in learning how to deal with that.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash bird to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash bird. And I'm just wondering, That day where you got pulled aside, can you just take me through what that was like?
Flightless Bird
Deported
That's because there's been a growing number of examples of people being held by ICE and deported from the country. And to be more specific, people who were here in the US legally, the right visa, the right green card, the right papers. The current administration seems to be making examples out of those who they've deemed to have spoken out in a way not appropriate for someone in America to speak.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Right. So you had three days, you had no passport, no stuff, no phone. You're just, you are in one of those rare situations in life where you're completely cut off from the world.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I've been watching, like many of us have, fascinated and a bit horrified by all of it. And sure, what Hayden said is completely right. I've been selfishly thinking about me, the main character, in my own life. I'm here on a three-year work visa that's coming up to being renewed. Here is someone who's tweeted and written a lot of shit about this country and its supreme leader, Donald Trump.
Flightless Bird
Deported
What was your headspace like then? Were you crying and upset? Were you angry? Were you completely placid?
Flightless Bird
Deported
And where's your headspace at right now? Because sure, they've said you've been banned from having a visa. You can't come back to America. But what are you thinking about the fact you're still detained? That feels very bad.
Flightless Bird
Deported
It seemed like a time to take a break from regular programming and take a little look at what the heck is going on. So... Prepare to delete your social media account before you hit customs and keep an eye out for large men in hoodies about to load you into the back of a van. Because this is the deportation episode.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Because there is this thing, and it's really interesting, you know, where two white people talking about what it's like when ICE gets you and detains you. And I think in a way it's kind of,
Flightless Bird
Deported
what's so interesting at the moment is this time in America where I feel like people like us, well, certainly you, I can't talk, I'm on the outside of all this, but people in our position are sort of for the first time, maybe going, holy shit, we're in America. And there's a chance that this can happen to us.
Flightless Bird
Deported
When of course, this has been happening to people that aren't in our privileged position for a long time. But what's so interesting about you is you've You're this person that we don't normally see in these sort of circumstances. And I feel like that suddenly has people thinking about America in a completely different way. Do you know what I mean?
Flightless Bird
Deported
So yeah, her story was kind of wild because I just reminded me of kind of my experience of like you get your visa application together and you hope it goes well. Her process was different to mine. I always go to the American embassy in New Zealand. She did a thing which I didn't even understand you could do, which was she basically entered America and applied in the space.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And that's something I've never done before. And so... when i'm applying in new zealand they're not going to seize me in new zealand but the fact she was in america applying that's where things got super curly for her so what was the justification on their end does she get did she get she's figuring that out no she's figuring it out now she has no idea why it happened wasn't some tweet some
Flightless Bird
Deported
No, I mean, the one thing like she definitely, she struck me as like being like quite non-political. Like she didn't dive into that Zoom being like down with the administration. She was just like, it's crazy this happened to me as someone who was just trying to work in America. And her theory is that either...
Flightless Bird
Deported
the system flagged her in some weird way because she'd been denied one other time because of the lady head thing or because maybe the product she was working with had like hemp in the water but i don't really see that as being a thing i guess there's a bunch of headlines being written about her particular case and the main thing is that she's being used as an example by ice
Flightless Bird
Deported
An example of what I'm not sure, just being like terrified of like coming in here and being a foreigner working. I don't know. I think what Hayden said at the beginning of this episode is right. It's like, David, you found a way to make this episode about you. And I'm not, that's true.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And it's like, I talk to her because I see her as being like a version of sort of me in a way of being like this person that has everything in their favor and they still got messed with, which I find kind of fascinating.
Flightless Bird
Deported
That's the sad thing completely. And I think that's a bigger part of the story as well of like the reason people generally don't care about this stuff is because the people that aren't caring aren't wired and it's not happening to them.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, which I appreciate. I... Because we're kind of like always taking each other as like various ideas come into our brains. And I think I messaged you at some point, maybe five days ago. So we're recording this on Friday, March 28th. Before the Tuesday it releases. So it's a very timely one.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah. I think it's that ultimate idea and it bleeds into so many parts of this country, including I think healthcare. It's like, they must have done something to deserve that happening to them. That bad thing could possibly never happen to me because like, I haven't done anything bad. Right. So, yeah, that was kind of wild. There are a few other examples of people just randomly being deported.
Flightless Bird
Deported
There was that University of Washington lab tech. She was a green card holder. She was detained by... Immigration and Customs, I'm just going to read a bit from this article from NBC News. Ms. Dixon, 64, who had legal permanent status in the United States for 50 years, was arrested at an airport in Seattle and placed into ICE custody after coming back from a trip to her native Philippines in Feb.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, you're leaving and you're coming back in. And she had had a conviction to do with embezzlement a very, very, very long time ago. And that's the theory of like, for some reason now that's being used as the example. Yeah. She's been here for 50 years. And there was another, this headline jumped out at me. It's a great headline. He voted for Trump. Now his wife sits in an ICE detention center.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Bradley Batali and Camila Munoz had a familiar small town love story before they collided with immigration politics. They met through mutual friends, had a first date at the local steakhouse. Very American. Married for 12 years. They've got kids. Last month on their way home to Wisconsin after honeymooning in Puerto Rico, an immigration agent pulled her aside at the airport.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Are you an American citizen, said the agent. She answered no, she wasn't. She's from Peru. But she and her husband had taken legal steps so that she might one day get citizenship. And from there, she disappeared. There's so many of these stories specifically circling now. Yeah, things that have happened that haven't been getting airtime and now suddenly here they are.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, pulled over for bogus reasons and then torn into to find a way to get them out of here. Yeah, it's a surreal thing where I think Trump didn't just appeal to a bunch of like white voters, like appeal to like a bunch of different bases that are now finding maybe things aren't in their favor. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Deported
More timely than... Yeah, so relatively close to release, but also a lot of... Because this is America, I always feel like if we're talking about something timely to say the date, because like if you're going, why aren't they mentioning that thing that happened yesterday? Yeah. I'm sure by Monday there's going to be three more of these stories. Yeah, exactly.
Flightless Bird
Deported
It was sort of worse having your partner torn away than like you, because they suddenly go into a void where you can do nothing. Yeah. And I think that's what struck me about Jasmine's story is that when we were shooting Dark Tourist, we were in Northern Cyprus and we were filming something we weren't meant to film.
Flightless Bird
Deported
and we were on a rooftop knowingly yeah so they told us early in the day like don't film um and we kept filming we're on a rooftop and the like the door burst open and we were detained by the police and it's the only time in my life when i've been in a different country and my i've been in a cell and my passport's been taken off me and i just remember that feeling of being like oh no it's like this is completely out of my control it's it feels different to being
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, being in a foreign country, no passport and no cell, and it feels bad.
Flightless Bird
Deported
being confused and put in this area and then having to just trust that the system is going to look out for them you don't exactly have all that much confidence when the system's the one that's just like throwing you in with yeah and yeah and she said this and the other woman in there are in the same position where you're not given like an induction guide yeah it's not like she was talking about how they're all trying to figure out like how the hell to make contact and they found like a tablet and
Flightless Bird
Deported
And they could find ways to get access to email. But then like using that was like incredibly difficult. And then it's also like, who are you emailing? It's the one tablet between like 300 people in that space. Yeah. Yeah, it's very odd.
Flightless Bird
Deported
There's a number of articles now being sort of written and certainly a lot of it's been discussed on social media where if you are coming into America, just how important it is to even just delete the social media apps on your phone so that if an immigration officer says, give us your phone and pull up your Twitter, it's like you don't have Twitter there.
Flightless Bird
Deported
You might still have an account, but just keep that stuff kind of hidden. And that's the way people are talking now is like, If you're coming into America, make sure you don't have the shit on your phone so they can't check what you've been saying.
Flightless Bird
Deported
No, completely. Back when we were doing that dark tourist show, when we were talking about going into these other countries like Turkmenistan, we were having these discussions. We take all the social media apps off your phone because if we're ever detained, we don't want anyone going through what anyone in our team has been saying about anything.
Flightless Bird
Deported
But no, I texted you being like, this deportation thing is pretty wild, what we're seeing. And we've both been watching footage of people being taken from their lobby of their apartment building or from the street and saying, should we do an episode? And you replied back saying... Essentially, like, are you sure you want to do that, right?
Flightless Bird
Deported
Freedom. Land of the free is like your main thing. Yeah. Yeah. It gets super weird. I'll put in the show notes, I'll put some of these articles kind of like tips for traveling into the United States, which sort of feels like you're traveling into North Korea or something. So I don't know. We'll see what happens from here on out.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah. If Rob, if you're solo the week after that, then we know what's happened. And if I have to do the show from back in New Zealand, it'll be a format change. I'll be coming in from that screen. I'll just be bringing purely New Zealand stories to you. In a bird costume. Of course in a bird costume.
Flightless Bird
Deported
It feels a bit as well as when we did the episode on the fires. It's like we're scared, but then also being aware that there are people that are right next to the fire that are in a whole other world of hell that we're not even... Rightfully more scared. Yeah, rightfully more scared. And I think it's always important to remember that relativity to this whole thing.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, 100%. The final thing that jumped out at me from talking to Jasmine is that She the whole way had been like, just send me back to Canada. I will pay to go back to Canada. Instead, she was shut down immediately and just locked up for two weeks. And that's just a very, again, I just imagine coming in through the border and sort of being like, just send me back to New Zealand.
Flightless Bird
Deported
No, you're in America now and you are not leaving and you're going to be in isolation for God knows how long. It's just a weird way to think about the country. Yeah. As always, if you have any of your own experiences in this, by all means, email in flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you. Do you want to hear a bit of feedback?
Flightless Bird
Deported
Kristen wrote in, we mentioned Vegemite in a recent episode, one of my favorite spreads on toast.
Flightless Bird
Deported
The black sludge. Yeah. Kristen said, love the show. Been listening since you started. As an Australian, I feel, I felt... I feel the need to let Rob know that David did a terrible job of explaining Vegemite. This seems like pretty consistent feedback. Yeah, I mean, I'm being honest. I'm keeping myself honest. Basically, a lot of the feedback is David doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
Flightless Bird
Deported
He's like misrepresented us completely. Rob kept wanting to know if it was like Nutella or peanut butter. And David kept saying no. But really, it is. I violently disagree with that statement, but she explains it a bit more. It's a spread for toasts and sandwiches like Nutella and peanut butter. Yeah, so it's like a spread. We knew that. Only it's unami flavor. Very savory and very salty.
Flightless Bird
Deported
You were like a rotting dog vomited... I like to undersell. It's like if I go on a date... I have a big theory about always going in messier than I'd normally be. Like a fumbling idiot? Yeah, because then it can only get better. I'll never understand people that go in trying to be a better version of themselves because you're going to just fail later. You weren't trying to sell me Vegemite.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I'll bring in a jar. We use it sparingly with lots of butter and maybe with cheese on a sandwich. Now this has blew my mind. Sure, if this is true, it might just be in Australia. Babies get it slathered on their teething rusks. I was an extremely fussy kid and my mum packed me Vegemite sandwiches to take for Christmas lunch at a restaurant when I was five.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Probably encourages them to chew on it if there's something. Babies love Vegemite. There you go. There was a lot of debate about windows in airport toilets. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Deported
So this is some backstory on this. Went in a blimp. They had a window in the blimp. We talked about that for a very long time. Someone wrote in from an airline saying, I had the stats. And if you're a man urinating in a plain toilet and there is a window there, 50% of people will wee, 50% won't. I then said, I proudly wee with a window. And an airplane toilet.
Flightless Bird
Deported
A lot of controversy and a lot of confusion. And this is fascinating to me because most airplane toilets don't have windows. Yeah, I've never experienced one. Which is what you said to me. And I said very clearly, there's always a window there. So then people started saying, have I lost the plot?
Flightless Bird
Deported
Someone wrote in saying, I think what Dave is thinking about is the window and the bulkhead next to the bathroom. Where you load in. Where you load in. Yeah. And I started thinking about this. And I was like, no, I have been. And then someone else wrote in saying, David, you have given a dead giveaway of your entire lifestyle because those windows are only on first-class toilets.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Under some sort of private jet situation. And I thought about this, and I thought... They're probably right in that whether... So I've flown business class a couple of times in my life. I generally do economy because it's too expensive otherwise. Wherever I am, I creep forward to use those front bathrooms because they're so much cleaner. So I wait till people are sleeping and...
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, and I think the thing is, it's like... part of the show like we have a lot of discussions behind the scenes about what we want the show to be and what it looks like and there's an element as well as like this is kind of I don't see the show as being... I don't know, in your brain, I see the show mainly as being entertainment.
Flightless Bird
Deported
What's going on? I fumble my way to the front of the plane and I try to always use those toilets. And also there are snacks up there and I load my pockets with all those snacks they put out and I take them back to my seat. So I think, to be clear, I think probably those windows in airplane bathrooms are just in the fancy bathrooms. And I would say to anyone listening, just go and use them.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Like, what are they going to do? The worst thing they're going to do is tell you off. Of course, be polite. Don't be belligerent.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Detain you forever. Be careful when you do this. I suggest when either... When everyone's sleeping, when the other passengers are sleeping and also the flight attendants, there's a time during the flight when they are also sleeping mostly. So like tiptoe? Tiptoe. And maybe put your hood up? No, no hood up. Bad advice to you. No, no hood up.
Flightless Bird
Deported
But just be discreet because then you can do what I have done and you can urinate or whatever you want to do in there with a window on a long haul flight. Highly recommended. It's a great thing to do. Christy also wrote in with a very good question. How exactly did Dan, that guy, know the statistics on how many men were able to wee while the window shade was open? Very good question.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And now I have many questions for Dan about how he came up with that stat. One thing when you hear a stat, I feel like you should always think, how do they arrive at that?
Flightless Bird
Deported
Can you pee or not with this window? Get your dick out with the window open or closed? The window shade open or closed? Will Rodin, who was the one that gave us a tip off that Bob Barker was providing prisonware to prisoners, as in Bob Barker, the famous host. He said, I'd like to apologize for providing that false information. A simple Google search would have cleared this up.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I've lived 12 years of my life just thinking that the Price is Right guy made my jail flip-flops and never thought twice about it. Now I know. Thanks again. Okay. Seventh Heaven. In, I believe, the Quiverful episode, I brought up Seventh Heaven. we've done a crazy thing on the show recently where we do a topic and then we randomly like choose when that will air.
Flightless Bird
Deported
It was another one that we did that was like also like very crazily timed. Anyway, we did it again. We mentioned Seventh Heaven. The day after our episode came out, a new documentary came out called Hollywood Demons, America's Dad. Not a greatly well-made documentary, but kind of fascinating.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I have a journalism part of my brain and I have sort of entertainment. I see it more being entertainment. But I think when we do cross over into topics that are more of the moment and have elements of journalism in there, we do have to have these discussions about what is practical. Because for the sake of the show, this whole episode is going to be about...
Flightless Bird
Deported
And essentially, Stephen Collins, who was the pastor dad in that show, there's a documentary basically coming out about how he's a pedophile. And it's now come out that I always laugh when awful things happen. I don't mean to do that. The latest headline about the former star of Seventh Heaven, disgraced actor living with a superman who is 40 years younger. Not great. Is he free? He is free.
Flightless Bird
Deported
2014. It's been 11 years. It's been 11 years. Essentially what happened at the beginning of the doc, and I need to finish watching it, is he... Audio was leaked of him and his wife in counseling where he's basically saying to his therapist, I have all these feelings towards underage girls and his partner leaked it at the time and that's how the rest of the world found out about it.
Flightless Bird
Deported
He's basically a massive creep. He was meant to be in the show on air. He was like this all-American dad. And the whole narrative around him as an actor is that he was just like the nicest guy. Everyone loved working with him. But he was an awful person. How old is he now? He's like 70. And his partner's 30? Yeah. I mean, that can get into a whole discussion of age gaps, I suppose.
Flightless Bird
Deported
But it's just the optics of his past and the way he kind of rolls. Not so great. No. But yeah, in the documentary, he basically just kept getting a stick out in front of a 13-year-old. So to be clear, he's a...
Flightless Bird
Deported
yeah awful human yeah i'm just wondering why how he's not in prison oh this is actually let's just i want to know this now because did he serve like what happened yeah or did he serve his time is this spaceman barry too oh my god i mean i feel like we do need to do a seventh heaven episode because there's other stuff that's come out about that as well there's also a berry on the show the oldest brother
Flightless Bird
Deported
Okay, so October 7th, 2014, the New York Police Department investigated Collins after an audio tape leaked to the media, revealed a male voice admitting to past sexual abuse of a minor. So that was that therapy tape.
Flightless Bird
Deported
It was admitting to a past... Admitted to a past sexual abuse of a minor. An LA Police Department spokesperson stated that Collins had been investigated... by the department in 2012 after receiving a claim from 18 years earlier in regards to sexual abuse. And the LAPD stated that its investigation did not allow it to substantiate the allegations. So nothing happened. It was an investigation.
Flightless Bird
Deported
He never went away. And then in 2014, he did an interview with People magazine and he admitted to inappropriate sexual contact with three female minors in 73, 82 and 94. Right. So he's a, I'd look interesting. He admitted to that.
Flightless Bird
Deported
The fact I said negative things about the administration, the fact that I've talked about genocide in Gaza, and I'm just highlighting that out even further. And we're here to make a show. Your job is to produce the show and make the show work. So these discussions are kind of important.
Flightless Bird
Deported
So you would think again, surely consequences, but it appears he has never had any consequences except for his reputational failure and embarrassment and shame and all the rest of it. America. Lexi wrote in also to say, I just wanted to validate you, David. When you guessed that Aaron Carter was on Seventh Heaven, you weren't wrong. He wasn't on the regular cast.
Flightless Bird
Deported
He was on a few episodes as a guest star. So I wasn't going crazy when I said Aaron Carter. Morris wrote in about the Quiverful episode about Christians having extraordinary large families. She said, I enjoyed your discussion. about the reason large families are more prevalent in rural areas.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Although I agree that rural areas are more religious, I don't think it's the primary reason for large families. Most rural areas are made up of farms. And at least in interior Canada, where I'm from, the children are the main labor force. I was raised in a family of seven kids. We weren't religious.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I'm positive my parents did not follow the Quiverful movement, and I'm not saying that the only reason they had seven children was for a free workforce, but we did start helping out on the farm young. But when we turned 14 years old, my parents started paying us a salary. And so essentially, little mini workforce for farms. That makes sense too.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Carmen said, listening to the Quiverful episode, I found myself wanting to yell out loudly, what about the woman? When you guys were musing about the decline of the large families. Women's liberation, the right to choose our own careers and livelihoods, make our own income, be totally independent, puts a big damper on spending 20 years as a baby maker.
Flightless Bird
Deported
their own independence and autonomy and yeah their own um interests and job and yeah life it's like you which you know yeah if you want to do that that's fine but within that quiverful movement was this idea that this is your god-ordained role is to breed so yeah i thought that was a really good point that carmen made um cara wrote in as well about seventh heaven ashley simpson
Flightless Bird
Deported
was also, in several seasons, playing the girlfriend of one of the sons. I vaguely remember there being some drama around her character and having premarital sex. We should do a 7th Heaven episode. There's also a TikTok account that has been recently replaying problematic clips. Yeah, you sent me one of them. Wild. Like a French exchange student comes... seven-year-old being very racist.
Flightless Bird
Deported
The seven-year-old basically like, yeah, in the family is basically like hates the fact that they're a foreigner and goes to like get them deported.
Flightless Bird
Deported
It's deranged, but it's actually not that crazy, because I feel every episode would raise a very specific point about American culture, and it would be deranged. Let's think about this. Maybe we'll consolidate it into... A 10 episode series. A lot of people wrote in about the Duggar family who were also just involved in the very crazy 80s, 90s Christian origins of the United States.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Maybe we'll do a separate Duggars at some point. So thanks for everyone that wrote in about that. Someone wants us to do a Mormon episode. I think that's a great idea. We mentioned in the Focus on the Family episode Plugged In, which was that Christian organization's website where they'd review films. A few people wrote in, and I love this.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Kyle said, as horny teenagers with zero access to porn, we found ourselves relying on plugged-in reviews to get descriptions. Sex was treated as an entirely forbidden topic. So any mention of it, no matter how disapproving, was still more information than we'd get anywhere else.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah. So that was like a good Christian site they could go to, but they basically would read to like get horny. Yeah. We even had our favorite reviewers because some were way more detailed than the others. Barbara talking about the sex scene. Kind of amazing. And Nicole like also wrote in. So we had a couple of guys wrote in and Nicole wrote in, um,
Flightless Bird
Deported
saying, as a horny preteen in the 2010s, I would use sites like this as an alternative to pornography. I used Common Sense Media or the parental guidance section on a movie's IMDb page to read the graphic descriptions of the sex and nudity in movies, and it felt like my dirty little secret. If a movie sounded really naughty, it might even find it on a movie pirating site to watch it.
Flightless Bird
Deported
So I love the idea that these sites... We're trying to warn parents. A gateway. We're a gateway drug to horny teenagers. It's really, really good. A lot of feedback about asphalt, which I also apparently say incorrectly.
Flightless Bird
Deported
crayons crayon crayon yeah cran i don't know if it's a midwest thing but um you know so yeah you just you miss out the y so it's you make it one so you say say crayon crayon yeah so you're saying crayon but you just like you know you skip it over and you said cron cran I love it so much. Gerardo wrote in about asphalt.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And he said, on the last podcast episode, y'all were questioning asphalt being used in Texas. I can, in fact, say that, yes, asphalt is used throughout Texas. I live close to the DFW area. That's Dallas-Fort Worth. Dallas-Fort Worth area. And I've been all around the state and have seen many areas use asphalt. I even have some at the end of my driveway where it meets the street. So yeah, correct.
Flightless Bird
Deported
We had about 50 people write in about asphalt very passionately, which I really like. Pro asphalt or? Very pro. Good. Yeah, bing into it. Yeah. Um... David wrote in, to correct me, during the Blimp episode, I was very critical of helicopters and the idea that if it stops rotating, you create it to the ground.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I started to get alarmed when I saw, you know, in my mind... student protests have just always been a thing that you can do. Like since the Vietnam war, it's like students are there and universities are there to protest and seeing these students being, you know, literally put into the back of a van and their partners and friends filming saying, where are you taking them?
Flightless Bird
Deported
He wrote in that helicopters have a thing called auto-rotation, where it will freely rotate if the motor breaks. And so if the engine fails on a helicopter, you don't just drop like a rock. The momentum will keep going until it stops. Yeah, it'll keep going, and it's not as diabolical as I... I just hate the idea of spreading bullshit on the show.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And maybe we should end there with the safety of helicopters. If you want any feedback, like the spread chat at gmail.com.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I'm really excited how these shows are coming together. I feel like they're very daunting when we first think about them. It's like we have to put on a show. And it has to be good.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I get excited about the idea of sharing the show. And that is a really good feeling. It goes from fear to excitement.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, we do. And it's... Yeah, I think we're both... Yeah, we want to put effort in. I think we've all... I think we're both of us are so against the idea of it just being like two people on stage talking with nothing else. Just coasting through. Yeah. And we, so it's from our own, like wanting to make this thing like something we would enjoy. So I'm excited.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Um, so your tickets are on at flightlessbirdpod.com. Um, see you soon. Thanks for listening. And remember to share this episode or any episode you like of the show with your friends and family. Or enemies. Okay, bye. Bye.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And there being no answers. It's just, it is super scary. And it's, you know, we're meant to be in a, You know, we hear a lot about some of the most influential people in America talking about free speech a lot. And it's like, okay, what's happening here?
Flightless Bird
Deported
Most of it, from what I can tell, and I've got some articles I'm going to read from that have been reported, but they're not going into the depths of it. The thing that seems to be, certainly with the university protests, the thing that seems to be alluded to is that these protesters are in some way directly connected or...
Flightless Bird
Deported
enhancing the role of Hamas in all of this right so it's like if you're basically the stance that if you are protesting and you're on the side of the Palestinians you're somehow you are part of a terrorist organization that's kind of the confluence there but no there's nothing to be clear there's These people are being arrested because they said something the administration didn't like.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, but they had an opinion. They had an opinion. An opinion that they were vocal about. Yeah, and they're being made examples of. We're here talking about it. I think there'll be certain people that are being less vocal now about these things because they have families to support and they don't want to be loaded into the back of an ICE van.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And how far does it go? It's like a slippery slope thing, right? I mean, you've been in America a lot longer than me. Have you been in this country when you've felt, when you've observed things like this happening before? No, I mean... I'm not missing something? No.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Since Trump won again, there's been a lot of debate about... Because he made such a loud song and dance about deporting illegal immigrants, etc. And I know there's been a lot of debate, like... the Biden administration also deported a hell of a lot of people, but they were just less vocal about it, right?
Flightless Bird
Deported
And so I look at Trump doing it and being so vocal about it, it's kind of abhorrent and disgusting. But what the shift seems to be that's so interesting is we're now having people who are here, according to the eyes of the government, legally on all the right visas, They've done nothing wrong except for speak about an issue, a huge issue.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I'm always worried about how I say the word issue because people keep telling me I say issue. That's the weird shift for me in all of this. And that feels, as someone here who writes a lot on where I'm about being about the genocide and how I'm very anti-genocide, the fact I'm loud about it on all social media is
Flightless Bird
Deported
I'm now thinking of that a lot when I come through customs coming in and out of the United States in a way that I never thought of before.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I assume that people that are very pro what is happening right now, they're just going to assume these people are somehow linked to a terrorist group or something.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Well, to be clear, I'm also confused. I don't understand the argument for it. No, and I think that's why a lot of they're taking legal action against the Trump administration over this because it's not legal.
Flightless Bird
Deported
I don't know what the comment was. I do wonder about the way people are viewing, because I think something that's so remarkable... This is slightly off topic, but these group signal text threads, right, about this upcoming attack in Yemen. A journalist from The Atlantic got added to that text chain accidentally.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And two hours before this attack took place in Yemen, he was sent all the coordinates and timings and everything. It was classified information at the time.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, endlessly. Yeah. Endlessly. So that happens. The Atlantic writes the piece. They keep the attack plans out of it because they're probably worried about publishing them and what that means. They publish the fact that it was ridiculous. They were included in a very clearly private, sensitive thread. And there was a lot of talk of the emojis that various –
Flightless Bird
Deported
uh american leaders were sending um flexed biceps and american flags when the attack was carried out but then you know the administration comes out and says oh no that's like he's a liar he's a liar you know he's discredited um and then we've got the atlantic the next day so they come out and then they publish all the attack plans clearly we're not lying here yeah here's what we were sent
Flightless Bird
Deported
I think a lot of America went, holy shit. And I just think a really interesting thing that's happened. There's been a few big podcasts, I guess, from like Manosphere land that are typically more aligned to Trump. And a number of those podcasts are actually calling this out this time and being like, no, this is like, like, this is bad. Like, and I haven't seen that happen in a while.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Usually it seems to be like blind, kind of everything is fine. Don't worry about it. The left is blowing out of proportion. And I wonder with this stuff, if there's going to be like, probably not, but like an element of like, this seems bad for people that would typically support the leader of the country.
Flightless Bird
Deported
The thing that suddenly catches on. Yeah. I feel like what was so powerful about that story is it was relatable to people. I feel like a lot of the bad shit that's going on, it's just... People's lives are busy. I can't grasp the magnitude of what is going on and how important it is. Whereas with this, it's like, no, we've all been accidentally included in a thread or included someone else.
Flightless Bird
Deported
This week's episode is looking at how the United States seems to have taken a special liking to deporting people recently. Yeah. Like people who are here legally. And I'm just wondering what you make of that.
Flightless Bird
Deported
And we can all relate to it. And we can say, holy shit, imagine if the smartest intelligence in the United States was doing that. And they did this and they texted out attack plans. Yeah. Oh, no, you're like, this is clearly fucked. Highly confidential data.
Flightless Bird
Deported
yeah information i mean the main thing i mean i'm not into planning um missile strikes and drone attacks and that kind of thing but i imagine the main thing you want to do is not let the enemy know like we're leaving now and we're coming here two hours in advance like you don't want to be leaking that information stay tuned for more flightless bird we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors
Flightless Bird
Deported
Yeah, there was that male activist that got caught in the lobby of his building and it was kind of amazing how everyone's dressed down, they are in hoodies and they won't talk. It is like a kidnapping. Yeah, it's kidnapping.
Flightless Bird
Deported
Support for Flightless Bird comes from Pesty. Now, I live in an apartment. It is bug free for most of the year, but there is a certain time of the year when it gets a certain level of heat. The biggest cockroaches ever suddenly appear in one room. They found a way in. Because you walk on the sidewalk and they're out and about.
Flightless Bird
Deported
But I don't know what the hell they're doing in the house and where they've come from. And if they've been hiding all year. With Pesty's do-it-yourself pest control, you can protect your home easily at a quarter of the cost. And this is honestly not coming a better time for me because I could not deal with them last season. And I'm very glad I now have PestE on my side.