David Friedberg

Never.

Never.

It doesn't work.

I have only, only, only ever seen venture debt leak to tracks that damage companies.

And if you get the venture debt, you can never actually use it.

So the venture debt investors that ultimately make money, it's because they put money in a company and the company never actually used the money they gave them.

I hate this business.

I think venture debt's like the worst vulture-like business in Silicon Valley.

Can we punch you in the face for other things too?

Unless you socialize the debt and then everyone thinks it's okay, which is what we do with governments.

And that's the problem with governments.

Don't get me started.

He's going to start going off.

Just a quick aside on that.

In the 1950s, all the corporations in America had pension plans where you would get some guaranteed payout at the end when you retire.

And they were all like, we're all going to go bankrupt because a pension plan is either significantly overfunded or underfunded.

If it's underfunded, you're bankrupt.

If it's overfunded, you've wasted all this money.

You can't do anything with it.

So they all moved to 401ks and everything got moved to defined contribution plans, except, except,