David Marchese

I'm David Marchese, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm David Marchese. It's common, maybe even natural, for audiences to blur the lines between actors and their famous roles, to assume that a beloved on-screen doctor might know something about medicine or that an action hero is a tough guy off-screen too.

But Jonathan Rumi is dealing with an unusually charged version of this dynamic in his role as Jesus Christ. And yes, this is our version of Christmas season programming. Since 2017, Rumi has been the star of the global hit series The Chosen. The series takes a prestige TV approach to the story of Jesus, full of sharp dialogue, interpersonal drama, unexpected humor, and high production values.

That slickly appealing modern style, centered on Rumi's warm and relatable portrayal, has helped the show to become a massive success. It's been watched by more than 250 million people and will return for its fifth season under creator Dallas Jenkins next year. That success has also helped turn Rumi, a devout Catholic, into a kind of public faith leader.

At public events for The Chosen, he's swamped by fans looking to, as it were, touch the hem of his garment. He gets asked to speak at faith-based events, and in the online world, he has a partnership with the prayer app Halo, where listeners can hear him read scripture and lead meditative reflections.

As Rumi is well aware, his is a complicated and just plain unlikely situation for an actor to be in. But it's also, he believes, part of a greater plan. And for me, as someone who is sincerely curious about faith, and even if I'm being honest, a little envious of those who have it, his belief is something I wanted to understand. Here's my conversation with Jonathan Rumi.

So you've been playing Jesus on The Chosen for five seasons now. What sort of conversations did you and Dallas have about the kind of Jesus that you wanted to show?

Because your Jesus, it's a very different portrayal than Jim Caviezel's Jesus in The Passion of the Christ, or Willem Dafoe's in The Last Temptation of Christ, or you know what else is a good one but also very different than yours is... Max von Sydow.

You know, the greatest story ever told. Very austere. But all of those Jesuses or Jizai, I don't know what they are, would... There's a solemnity to them. And your Jesus is a much more, in some ways, contemporary feeling Jesus.

Did you have any apprehension about showing a version of Jesus that isn't one that's typically shown?

Just in my head, I was thinking of the sort of cliche of an actor saying, oh, what's my motivation? In your case, the answer was, you've got to bring about the salvation of the world. Play it like that. Saving souls. I've got to save more souls. And so the decision was made that you were going to do The Chosen.

Before that, you know, maybe scuffling is too strong of a word, but you were just sort of a jobbing actor.

Struggle bussing. Yeah. How does it happen that a struggle-bussing actor makes it big playing Jesus?

I know that you're a practicing Catholic. What does your faith allow you to give to the role that a non-believer or a non-Catholic might not be able to give?

You know, it's interesting because you're saying that who you are allows you to play the role of Jesus with a particular authenticity. Do you feel that someone who is a non-believer could credibly and authentically play that part?

Yeah. Yeah. He came to be a sword.

Yes. Yeah. When I watch videos of you giving talks for crowds, you come out and very often it seems a wave of applause, like really an overwhelming response. And the idea that you're getting that sort of attention from combined with the fact that you're getting it for playing Jesus, strikes me as a potentially psychologically and spiritually combustible situation. Does it feel that way to you?

You're saying essentially that you become a human icon for people. The thing that I don't quite understand is how you separate the idea that, as you said, you're nothing here.

But then also feeling like you've been put here for a reason. You're saying there is something special about you. Those seem to me like somewhat contradictory ideas. How do you reconcile them? And then also, there was never some small part of you that's like, oh, I am special. None of that little sort of ego gratification temptation ever creeps into your head?

So, you know, you go to these events and like you described, thousands of people are cheering or coming up to you. And you also are asked to come and speak at things like the National Eucharistic Congress or you gave a commencement address at the Catholic University of America. You spoke at the March for Life in Washington last year. These sort of demands on your life. time and on your being.