David Marchese

To watch, go to youtube.com slash at the interview podcast and hit subscribe while you're there. Okay, here's this week's show. From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm David Marchese. It's not easy to have a clear perspective on a momentous life change, especially one that's just happened. But in today's episode, that's exactly what I'll be asking Misty Copeland to try to do.

Because in this interview, Copeland is announcing her retirement from the American Ballet Theater after a 25-year career there, putting a cap on a groundbreaking and remarkable trajectory. She grew up in near poverty, her family often without a home of its own, and she didn't even start dancing seriously till she was 13, which is really late for a ballerina.

Because in this interview, Copeland is announcing her retirement from the American Ballet Theater after a 25-year career there, putting a cap on a groundbreaking and remarkable trajectory. She grew up in near poverty, her family often without a home of its own, and she didn't even start dancing seriously till she was 13, which is really late for a ballerina.

But despite all that, she eventually joined the ABT in 2001, and after a 15-year climb, became the first Black woman ever to be named a principal dancer with the company. She'll be dancing her farewell performance this fall. Copeland, who's 42, is stepping away from the stage at a fraught time.

But despite all that, she eventually joined the ABT in 2001, and after a 15-year climb, became the first Black woman ever to be named a principal dancer with the company. She'll be dancing her farewell performance this fall. Copeland, who's 42, is stepping away from the stage at a fraught time.

The values of diversity and inclusion, which she embodies and works to promote, are under political attack. And cultural institutions are being made to reckon with partisan antagonism from Washington. So there's a lot for her to wrestle with right now, both personally and professionally, as she looks back on a legacy she's leaving behind and ahead to the rest of her life.

The values of diversity and inclusion, which she embodies and works to promote, are under political attack. And cultural institutions are being made to reckon with partisan antagonism from Washington. So there's a lot for her to wrestle with right now, both personally and professionally, as she looks back on a legacy she's leaving behind and ahead to the rest of her life.

Here's my conversation with Misty Copeland. Misty, thank you for being here today.

Here's my conversation with Misty Copeland. Misty, thank you for being here today.

So you have been ramping down dancing for a while. I think it's been five years since you gave a performance at the ABT. So why does now feel like the time to make an official retirement announcement?

So you have been ramping down dancing for a while. I think it's been five years since you gave a performance at the ABT. So why does now feel like the time to make an official retirement announcement?

That answer really laid down a lot of useful track for me. It touches on a lot of themes that I was hoping to discuss with you. But first, you said 2019 is when you were starting to feel like this part of your story is coming to an end. What was going on in 2019? Why did you start to feel that way?

That answer really laid down a lot of useful track for me. It touches on a lot of themes that I was hoping to discuss with you. But first, you said 2019 is when you were starting to feel like this part of your story is coming to an end. What was going on in 2019? Why did you start to feel that way?

You know, something you said right at the beginning of your first answer was that it sounded like kind of your natural inclination would have been to just fade away quietly. Is that telling about the kind of person that you really are?

You know, something you said right at the beginning of your first answer was that it sounded like kind of your natural inclination would have been to just fade away quietly. Is that telling about the kind of person that you really are?

It might be difficult for you to judge or difficult for you to judge at this point in time, but when you talk about the idea of your legacy, do you have a clear sense of how... effective that legacy has been. The way somebody put it to me once is that, you know, on the nights when you were dancing, the house was noticeably more diverse than on nights when you weren't dancing.

It might be difficult for you to judge or difficult for you to judge at this point in time, but when you talk about the idea of your legacy, do you have a clear sense of how... effective that legacy has been. The way somebody put it to me once is that, you know, on the nights when you were dancing, the house was noticeably more diverse than on nights when you weren't dancing.

Do you have a sense of whether or not, you know, that's still the case or whether that will be the case moving forward?

Do you have a sense of whether or not, you know, that's still the case or whether that will be the case moving forward?

This is sort of like maybe a slightly larger philosophical question that connects to a debate that's been around for a long time in the ballet world, but sort of on the idea that choreographers might have in mind a certain way for their dancers to look that they feel best brings to life their choreographic ideas. You know, obviously we know that race shouldn't be a criteria for that, but...