David Marchese

But before I get to those, there was one question I asked you earlier, and I thought your answer was a bit of a dodge.

Or maybe I just asked the question early.

Yeah, probably.

But I had asked about this idea that engaging with literature can make readers and writers more expansive or more generous, despite the counterexamples.

And you answered by saying, basically, the art is, when it's working, it should be better than the person who made it.

And I thought, well, the question, it's not really about whether or not the art is better than

the artist who made it.

It's about sort of what effect literature and reading can have on us.

And, you know, I realize like maybe it's a silly question because the truth is probably for some people, you know, engaging with reading makes them a better person.

For some people, it doesn't.

But maybe the deeper question is why that idea seems to matter to them.

I think it just- Expansive and more generous.

But even the idea of literature having potentially some sacramental value, to me, that's sort of like...

edges towards a justification.

And I find I'm always very wary of any sort of justification for art beyond its own sake.

And I just wonder if, do you feel like literature needs or benefits from any justification beyond the fact of the writer liking to do it and people liking to read it?

But...

So something I was thinking about in relation to your career as a teacher and your engagement with students at Syracuse is this feeling, I don't know how true it is, but this feeling that the place of fiction in the culture is greatly diminished from where it was before.

I don't know, maybe even when you were getting your start in the mid and late 90s, you know, the idea that whereas somebody like David Foster Wallace or maybe it was Tom Wolfe or whomever could sort of be seen as almost an avatar for the culture through their work, you know, now the writing of fiction is like an artisanal pursuit or something like that.

And I wonder if... I'm going to use that.