David Marchese

And you can email us anytime at theinterview at nytimes.com. Next week, guest host Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review, interviews author Isabel Allende.

I think that my way of getting over things, of understanding, of exploring my own soul, my past, and also, most important, of remembering, is writing.

I think that my way of getting over things, of understanding, of exploring my own soul, my past, and also, most important, of remembering, is writing.

I'm David Marchese, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

I'm David Marchese, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

You know, Michael, it's nothing short of mind-blowing that this is coming out of Donald Trump and his team, especially when you consider the fact that in 2024 during the campaign, if you believe the Biden administration's Justice Department, the Iranians had actually hired some contract killers to try to assassinate Trump.

You know, Michael, it's nothing short of mind-blowing that this is coming out of Donald Trump and his team, especially when you consider the fact that in 2024 during the campaign, if you believe the Biden administration's Justice Department, the Iranians had actually hired some contract killers to try to assassinate Trump.

That's right. So what's happening now... is in some ways completely unexpected because, of course, during the first term, Trump not only tore up the old agreement, but it was pretty clear from the Iran hawks he surrounded himself with, like Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State, that what they really wanted to do was crush the Iranian regime, force it into huge changes.

That's right. So what's happening now... is in some ways completely unexpected because, of course, during the first term, Trump not only tore up the old agreement, but it was pretty clear from the Iran hawks he surrounded himself with, like Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State, that what they really wanted to do was crush the Iranian regime, force it into huge changes.

Yet now the strategic circumstances are quite different and Trump's approach is different.

Yet now the strategic circumstances are quite different and Trump's approach is different.

So no country has put more effort into building a nuclear weapon for a longer period of time than the Iranians have. When you think about it, it's taken them well more than two decades, far longer than it took the Israelis, the Indians, the Pakistanis to go build a bomb. And that in part has been because they've been of two minds about it. On the one hand, they want a weapon.

So no country has put more effort into building a nuclear weapon for a longer period of time than the Iranians have. When you think about it, it's taken them well more than two decades, far longer than it took the Israelis, the Indians, the Pakistanis to go build a bomb. And that in part has been because they've been of two minds about it. On the one hand, they want a weapon.

Israel has nuclear weapons. Right. And so they felt that they should have them. But also because they believed that as one of the Middle East's biggest, oldest powers— they should be a senior member of the nuclear club.

Israel has nuclear weapons. Right. And so they felt that they should have them. But also because they believed that as one of the Middle East's biggest, oldest powers— they should be a senior member of the nuclear club.

But at the same time, they've been nervous about it because they know that as soon as they get too close to a weapon, the chances that the Israelis attack, maybe with American support, is very high. So in 2003, for example, after the United States had invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq,

But at the same time, they've been nervous about it because they know that as soon as they get too close to a weapon, the chances that the Israelis attack, maybe with American support, is very high. So in 2003, for example, after the United States had invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq,

The Iranians deeply feared they may be next, and their political leadership sent out a message to the scientists running the nuclear weapons program that says, hey, maybe this isn't such a great idea. Let's take a pause on this whole thing. And so they continued to produce nuclear fuel.

The Iranians deeply feared they may be next, and their political leadership sent out a message to the scientists running the nuclear weapons program that says, hey, maybe this isn't such a great idea. Let's take a pause on this whole thing. And so they continued to produce nuclear fuel.

But they did so relatively slowly, and in 2013, President Obama started a secret series of talks, and that turned into a negotiation that two years later turned out to be a way to cap the Iranian nuclear programs. Right, just kind of stall it out, freeze it in place. Freeze it in place and ship 97% of the fuel that they had already produced out to Russia.