David Marchese

Yeah.

Yeah.

But this still raises for me the question of like, what is so your issue, the equivalent one that you would accept that it was the fight to achieve it would be going on after you died is factory farming.

But this still raises for me the question of like, what is so your issue, the equivalent one that you would accept that it was the fight to achieve it would be going on after you died is factory farming.

I just want to know like what really drives you.

I just want to know like what really drives you.

I think it's fair to say that your target audience for the book, and I guess in a way for the school also, it's younger people either early in their career or maybe still in the phase of considering what their career could be. And I did wonder.

I think it's fair to say that your target audience for the book, and I guess in a way for the school also, it's younger people either early in their career or maybe still in the phase of considering what their career could be. And I did wonder.

Oh, you don't think?

Oh, you don't think?

Have you experienced any profound moral shifts in your life?

Have you experienced any profound moral shifts in your life?

You know, I think undergirding a lot of what we've been talking about is sort of this idea of a shift in cultural values where making money has become increasingly central at the expense of trying to do good in the world or live by greater values. And I think at the same time, there's also a live in the culture movement.

You know, I think undergirding a lot of what we've been talking about is sort of this idea of a shift in cultural values where making money has become increasingly central at the expense of trying to do good in the world or live by greater values. And I think at the same time, there's also a live in the culture movement.

a real sense of burn-it-all-down anger, which is an appealing and seductive feeling. And so that's a bit of a preamble to something that I want to connect to another one of the books you were able to recommend to me, which was the autobiography of the philosopher and the pacifist Bertrand Russell.

a real sense of burn-it-all-down anger, which is an appealing and seductive feeling. And so that's a bit of a preamble to something that I want to connect to another one of the books you were able to recommend to me, which was the autobiography of the philosopher and the pacifist Bertrand Russell.

And in that book, he's writing in the context of public support in Great Britain for World War I. And he says that, I had supposed that most people liked money better than almost anything else. but I discovered that they liked destruction even better. Do you think he was wrong?

And in that book, he's writing in the context of public support in Great Britain for World War I. And he says that, I had supposed that most people liked money better than almost anything else. but I discovered that they liked destruction even better. Do you think he was wrong?

That's Rutger Bregman. His new book is Moral Ambition. Stop wasting your talent and start making a difference. This conversation was produced by Seth Kelly. It was edited by Annabelle Bacon, mixing by Sonia Herrero. Original music by Dan Powell, Alicia Paitoup, Leah Shaw-Dameron, and Marion Lozano. Photography by Philip Montgomery.

That's Rutger Bregman. His new book is Moral Ambition. Stop wasting your talent and start making a difference. This conversation was produced by Seth Kelly. It was edited by Annabelle Bacon, mixing by Sonia Herrero. Original music by Dan Powell, Alicia Paitoup, Leah Shaw-Dameron, and Marion Lozano. Photography by Philip Montgomery.