David Pierce

We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

Welcome back. I'm talking with Vultures podcast critic, Nick Kwa, about why so many capital firms and CEOs are spending their time and money making podcasts. Right before the break, we were talking about how making podcasts or YouTube videos for long enough can be kind of a job interview, a way to build your brand and ultimately break into the field that you talk about.

Welcome back. I'm talking with Vultures podcast critic, Nick Kwa, about why so many capital firms and CEOs are spending their time and money making podcasts. Right before the break, we were talking about how making podcasts or YouTube videos for long enough can be kind of a job interview, a way to build your brand and ultimately break into the field that you talk about.

Welcome back. I'm talking with Vultures podcast critic, Nick Kwa, about why so many capital firms and CEOs are spending their time and money making podcasts. Right before the break, we were talking about how making podcasts or YouTube videos for long enough can be kind of a job interview, a way to build your brand and ultimately break into the field that you talk about.

But there's another way that podcasts work too. It's just good old-fashioned marketing. Do you think about those podcasters as fundamentally the same as like the people who are on Twitter hawking their book all the time, right? Like to some extent, it's the same energy, right? Like I have a thing that I care about that I'm going to probably financially gain if I can make you care about.

But there's another way that podcasts work too. It's just good old-fashioned marketing. Do you think about those podcasters as fundamentally the same as like the people who are on Twitter hawking their book all the time, right? Like to some extent, it's the same energy, right? Like I have a thing that I care about that I'm going to probably financially gain if I can make you care about.

But there's another way that podcasts work too. It's just good old-fashioned marketing. Do you think about those podcasters as fundamentally the same as like the people who are on Twitter hawking their book all the time, right? Like to some extent, it's the same energy, right? Like I have a thing that I care about that I'm going to probably financially gain if I can make you care about.

And now it's just that podcasts are the sort of deepest way to reach people on that front. But it's not that different from what I would get just by tweeting nonsensically about the crypto coin that I'm hoping will go up.

And now it's just that podcasts are the sort of deepest way to reach people on that front. But it's not that different from what I would get just by tweeting nonsensically about the crypto coin that I'm hoping will go up.

And now it's just that podcasts are the sort of deepest way to reach people on that front. But it's not that different from what I would get just by tweeting nonsensically about the crypto coin that I'm hoping will go up.

I think the other thing that we've spent a lot of time talking about the last couple of years is open questions about how big the podcasting business and audience is going to be. There are more podcasts than ever. It's still growing, but it is, I would say, increasingly hard to launch and grow a podcast.

I think the other thing that we've spent a lot of time talking about the last couple of years is open questions about how big the podcasting business and audience is going to be. There are more podcasts than ever. It's still growing, but it is, I would say, increasingly hard to launch and grow a podcast.

I think the other thing that we've spent a lot of time talking about the last couple of years is open questions about how big the podcasting business and audience is going to be. There are more podcasts than ever. It's still growing, but it is, I would say, increasingly hard to launch and grow a podcast.

For a lot of the reasons you're describing, like the upside of if you're a 22-year-old musician starting on TikTok is that TikTok will show your stuff to people. Podcasts don't work quite that way. It's a... Big open space, but it's also kind of a harder nut to crack than it used to be, it seems to me.

For a lot of the reasons you're describing, like the upside of if you're a 22-year-old musician starting on TikTok is that TikTok will show your stuff to people. Podcasts don't work quite that way. It's a... Big open space, but it's also kind of a harder nut to crack than it used to be, it seems to me.

For a lot of the reasons you're describing, like the upside of if you're a 22-year-old musician starting on TikTok is that TikTok will show your stuff to people. Podcasts don't work quite that way. It's a... Big open space, but it's also kind of a harder nut to crack than it used to be, it seems to me.

Do you think these people are actually making a real effort to, you know, make a dent in this business right now?

Do you think these people are actually making a real effort to, you know, make a dent in this business right now?

Do you think these people are actually making a real effort to, you know, make a dent in this business right now?

I had not thought about this until you were just saying that. But given this sort of platform flattening that's happening, you can kind of make a podcast and then turn it into everything else. Like, so much of what I see on TikTok is clips of podcasts. And so much of what's now hitting on YouTube is long form podcasts. So I