David Senra

And I'm convinced that's the way out.

That I think I, like you, and like so many listening, have their set of demons that they've struggled with.

And the path out is others.

Yeah.

Simple as that.

And it sounds like Bruce, I don't know, Bruce, I'm not a huge Springsteen fan.

I need to read the book, obviously.

But that seems like a tale as old as time.

Yeah, the clean fuel, dirty fuel debate is really interesting.

And look, a lot of, many, most, nearly all of the books that you've read

were people that were fueled by dirty fuel.

Dirty fuel works really well, but it consumes the person in a way that I would far rather die, nobody knowing who I am with no worldly success, but having people that could count on me, rely on me, I was faithful to, that I was loyal to,

Like that's what I want at the end.

So if you can work backwards from that, that's another cool way to think about it.

Like working backwards from what you hope is true is a simple heuristic for finding what to do well.

And I think, yeah, I think I can't wait to read the book.

I mean, how long you got?

I could easily rattle off 50 people.

Let's take one, just some of the most important ideas and where they came from.

To take the simplest example possible, in the early days of the show, this is a very practical real-world example.