David Skok

And there was no expansion access.

And we thought that was great because of the simplicity of it.

But then we ran into recognizing, okay, we've got no chance of hitting negative churn.

So the thought process you go through is, can you use users?

And in the marketing area, that's not a great proxy, particularly in small companies, because there aren't really lots of people needed in marketing to make the product work well.

And there typically isn't a large organization, not like sales, for example, where actually seats is a very good metric of marketing.

How much value is being derived?

So you look for value.

So how can you find a pricing access that equates to the value that the customer is going to get?

And I think in HubSpot's case, what we arrived at was the two things.

You could have more sophisticated versions of the product that offered more powerful features.

But the really interesting one was leads, the lead count that was in the system.

So HubSpot, if it was doing its job well, would generate more leads for you.

And that was high evidence of good value being delivered.

And if you were running a large lead base on HubSpot, you were going to get high value also from the nurturing and the email marketing capabilities of the product.

And so using lead count was a great way to go for the variable access.

And I think as long as the customer feels like whenever they pay you more money, they equate that to getting more value from the product, you're in good place.

If you have a situation where your customers don't like your pricing, it's typically because it's not aligned with the value that they're getting out of it and you're not able to demonstrate to them they're paying you more because they're getting more value.

Yes.

And namely is number of employees.