David Zweig
speaker
193 appearances
2 recordings
2 series
first heard Apr 2025
last heard May 2025
David Zweig’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Thanks for having me.
yeah i think you were quite prescient obviously this was not the right thing to do i wrote a 450 page book about why this was not the right thing to do and in my view this was possibly the worst, other than people who died from COVID, this was the worst result of the interventions that the public health professionals had implemented during the pandemic.
This was a catastrophe that could have and should have been avoided. And that's what I discuss in the book at length.
It's quite an extraordinary circumstance that the degree of tribalism that occurred during the pandemic and still does now in certain respects. And as you described it, I mean, I occupied a pretty rare lane where I was writing a lot of pieces in Wired, The Atlantic, New York Magazine, pieces that really challenged the establishment view.
But I was doing it from the establishment and I was maligned. You know, I mean, very early on, I was called a murderer, you know, a trumper, et cetera, et cetera, all for just pointing out the evidence. That was it. I approached this topic apolitically. as a journalist with my features, and then certainly with the book, that I have no agenda, not trying to win points.
I'm trying to make things clear to the American public. This book is almost like a case study of the failure of the expert class.
Yeah, don't hold your breath on that, unfortunately. I mean, look, people are generally not inclined to admit when they were wrong. You know, what I- David, I'm gonna stop you.
Well, you're obviously the exception, not the rule. Most people, and perhaps particularly so in media, corrections on things are not always forthcoming. One of the things that I think you'll find interesting is that, and that hopefully your audience will, is that
In the book, one of the things I try to show is that a lot of the way the media covered the pandemic, and in particular children in schools in America, it's not necessarily that there were factual errors, although there were plenty of those, but rather what I try to show is how it's really through framing. It's the information that's left out And it's the particular kind of the same pundits.
There is this one emergency medicine physician who now got rewarded by being put in charge of one of the public health schools at Yale for her punditry.
Even though she had no expertise in infectious disease mitigation or anything else, but she was on speed dial at the New York Times and many, many other sort of legacy media outlets that the way you craft a narrative isn't necessarily through lying. or giving false information, it's through a very, very careful catering or tailoring of what you put in an article and what you leave out.
And I show through these series of case studies about how I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase of an argument from authority, which is in philosophy, this is what's known as a logical fallacy, which means it's when people say that something is true simply because of the credentials of the person who says it.
So over and over again in the New York Times and a number of other media outlets, they would quote various quotes. experts or professionals, oftentimes, again, people who had no particular expertise in the subject matter, such as emergency medicine physicians.
But nevertheless, they would quote them saying, we need to have a mask mandate or there needs to be HEPA filters or such and such before school can open. But then they never provided evidence for that statement. Sometimes it was just
unattributed at all it just said experts say experts have you know the consensus of experts concludes blah blah blah and that's what led me on my path pretty early was was um observing that over and over i kept being told these things But I wasn't seeing evidence. And the way my mind works and the way I work as a writer and a journalist is I'm always drilling down. I try to get to the source.
I spent years, many, many years ago before it became politicized as a magazine fact checker. And we were taught you always, you have to go like, two, three, four layers deep until you get to the source of information. You can't just trust something because someone says it. But that's exactly what happened within the media.
And unfortunately, it left the American public deeply misinformed about a variety of things in the pandemic, but I think most damagingly about, one, the risks that SARS-CoV-2 posed to most Americans, but most importantly to children, or the lack of risk that it posed to children by and large.
And two, the public were deeply misinformed about what the effect or benefits would be from these various NPIs, or what are known as non-pharmaceutical interventions. The six feet of distancing, the mask mandates, the school closures, this hybrid schedule where my kids were under for more than a year, where you went to school for like one day a week or two days a week.
There was no evidence behind any of this stuff. There was quite a bit of literature before the pandemic, which we could get into, that indicated this would not be effective or successful. But nevertheless, this is what we were told by the most esteemed health professionals in our country and what we were told by the media was critical in order for schools to open.
Meanwhile, millions of kids were in school in Europe without, by and large, without any of these interventions. And we could talk about that. That was ignored. So this empirical evidence was ignored and instead we were basing everything on theory.
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