Deborah Roberts

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Hi there, 2020 podcast listeners. Welcome to the 2020 After Show. I'm Deborah Roberts, and on Friday night, we brought you a show called Dirty Little Secret. Matt Baker was a charismatic minister in Hewitt, Texas, and he was leading a life at the center of his community along with his wife, Carrie Baker, who was a Sunday school teacher at the church. They had two little girls.

Hi there, 2020 podcast listeners. Welcome to the 2020 After Show. I'm Deborah Roberts, and on Friday night, we brought you a show called Dirty Little Secret. Matt Baker was a charismatic minister in Hewitt, Texas, and he was leading a life at the center of his community along with his wife, Carrie Baker, who was a Sunday school teacher at the church. They had two little girls.

So when Carrie died of what appeared to be suicide, the community rallied around the grief-stricken pastor. But Carrie's family didn't. They suspected that something was amiss. Calling themselves the Charlie's Angels of Waco, they launched their own investigation revealing something that was pretty shocking in this church community. Lies and adultery.

So when Carrie died of what appeared to be suicide, the community rallied around the grief-stricken pastor. But Carrie's family didn't. They suspected that something was amiss. Calling themselves the Charlie's Angels of Waco, they launched their own investigation revealing something that was pretty shocking in this church community. Lies and adultery.

And ultimately, of course, they helped law enforcement uncover Matt's plot to kill his wife. Here's a clip from the show.

And ultimately, of course, they helped law enforcement uncover Matt's plot to kill his wife. Here's a clip from the show.

We all hung on those words, too, on last week's 2020. On today's 2020 After Show, I get the pleasure to talk to 2020 producer Denise Martinez-Ramundo, who I normally talk to in the field, but today we get to talk a little more formally, and associate producer Samantha Wunderer.

We all hung on those words, too, on last week's 2020. On today's 2020 After Show, I get the pleasure to talk to 2020 producer Denise Martinez-Ramundo, who I normally talk to in the field, but today we get to talk a little more formally, and associate producer Samantha Wunderer.

They both were a big part of telling this story, sifting through hours of archival interviews 2020 conducted over the years, really, with Matt Baker, and speaking to new voices to help John Quinones take a fresh look at this case. So welcome to both of you.

They both were a big part of telling this story, sifting through hours of archival interviews 2020 conducted over the years, really, with Matt Baker, and speaking to new voices to help John Quinones take a fresh look at this case. So welcome to both of you.

Thanks for having us. This is kind of wild. We're actually getting to talk in this formal way. So, Denise, let me start with you because you and I have worked on countless stories together and you have this knack for digging, digging, digging into the old files and finding things that maybe either we thought.

Thanks for having us. This is kind of wild. We're actually getting to talk in this formal way. So, Denise, let me start with you because you and I have worked on countless stories together and you have this knack for digging, digging, digging into the old files and finding things that maybe either we thought.

was sort of interesting at the time, or maybe not as much, and then you find something new. So what is it about this story? And of course, we've covered a lot of stories that involve hypocrisy and, you know, ministers in the church and all of that. But what was it about this one?

was sort of interesting at the time, or maybe not as much, and then you find something new. So what is it about this story? And of course, we've covered a lot of stories that involve hypocrisy and, you know, ministers in the church and all of that. But what was it about this one?

And in small town Texas, too. So you're talking a southern town, a fairly youngish preacher with his family. And, you know, that just sort of shocked everybody. It shocked everybody in the community.

And in small town Texas, too. So you're talking a southern town, a fairly youngish preacher with his family. And, you know, that just sort of shocked everybody. It shocked everybody in the community.

Now, Samantha, you were deeply involved in this story from the beginning, and you dug through all of the footage. And we're going to talk about that and how that made such a difference. But tell me about what drew you to this one.

Now, Samantha, you were deeply involved in this story from the beginning, and you dug through all of the footage. And we're going to talk about that and how that made such a difference. But tell me about what drew you to this one.

Yeah. And when you approach this, you know, again, as I said to Denise, you know, you're talking small town America and you've got to kind of dig into that psyche, too, of just how how shocking this is to people when something like this is revealed.