Derek Fordjour

And so there's so many people behind him. I would say probably David Hammonds. David Hammonds. And actually on the pier here in New York, there's a wonderful monument that he has across from the Whitney Museum. I think it personifies perfectly why so many people might not know the name David Hammons. There's a full-blown... Monument that cost tens of millions of dollars to build.

And so there's so many people behind him. I would say probably David Hammonds. David Hammonds. And actually on the pier here in New York, there's a wonderful monument that he has across from the Whitney Museum. I think it personifies perfectly why so many people might not know the name David Hammons. There's a full-blown... Monument that cost tens of millions of dollars to build.

And I spoke to the director with Whitney about this. I mean, it's a big thing for them. But you could pass it a million times and never notice it. It has thin wire frame to outline what used to be the piers on the West Side Highway. So he just framed a building. So you can miss it. And he's okay with that. And this is part of the genius of David Hammons. His presence is as...

And I spoke to the director with Whitney about this. I mean, it's a big thing for them. But you could pass it a million times and never notice it. It has thin wire frame to outline what used to be the piers on the West Side Highway. So he just framed a building. So you can miss it. And he's okay with that. And this is part of the genius of David Hammons. His presence is as...

Fascinating as his absence. And he's done some of the most compelling conceptual projects, like he sold snowballs on the street, like for an exchange, like people bought snowballs. And that's an artwork.

Fascinating as his absence. And he's done some of the most compelling conceptual projects, like he sold snowballs on the street, like for an exchange, like people bought snowballs. And that's an artwork.

Right. This is David Harris. I mean, that's one of his more popular artworks, but he can hide in plain sight. He played with the art world. Like these are snowballs that actually melt.

Right. This is David Harris. I mean, that's one of his more popular artworks, but he can hide in plain sight. He played with the art world. Like these are snowballs that actually melt.

Okay. But you can buy one. Okay. It opens up this amazing commentary on commerce. What are you buying? What is exchange? Yeah. Where is value?

Okay. But you can buy one. Okay. It opens up this amazing commentary on commerce. What are you buying? What is exchange? Yeah. Where is value?

That's right. Let me add to that. And then when we open this conversation even more broadly to African architecture and different modes of creation and architecture domicile and public space and the plaza, it's a big conversation, but it's invisible to most of us. What you're talking about relative to the suits and the respectability, you'll see a lot of suits in my paintings because of that.

That's right. Let me add to that. And then when we open this conversation even more broadly to African architecture and different modes of creation and architecture domicile and public space and the plaza, it's a big conversation, but it's invisible to most of us. What you're talking about relative to the suits and the respectability, you'll see a lot of suits in my paintings because of that.

It's a signifier. It's a code about how to navigate How to anticipate a certain perception and then to use it for your benefit, which is why, back to Hammond's, his invisibility is as crucial as his visibility is.

It's a signifier. It's a code about how to navigate How to anticipate a certain perception and then to use it for your benefit, which is why, back to Hammond's, his invisibility is as crucial as his visibility is.

And so when we talk about representation, over-representation, under-representation, I kind of jokingly say, like, if you ever went to see the doctor and all the doctors were six feet tall and they were black guys. We would all whisper a question to someone. And I joke, my little brother Rick is a dentist, right?

And so when we talk about representation, over-representation, under-representation, I kind of jokingly say, like, if you ever went to see the doctor and all the doctors were six feet tall and they were black guys. We would all whisper a question to someone. And I joke, my little brother Rick is a dentist, right?

And I talk about him all the time because I used to get on my brother's about wearing expensive shoes. And I'd be like, bro, I would never pay that much money for shoes. You guys are ridiculous. And I just thought like when you were saying earlier about the way Africans critique African-Americans. You're paying $400 for shoes, $300. And my brother is like, hey, man, they look at my shoes.

And I talk about him all the time because I used to get on my brother's about wearing expensive shoes. And I'd be like, bro, I would never pay that much money for shoes. You guys are ridiculous. And I just thought like when you were saying earlier about the way Africans critique African-Americans. You're paying $400 for shoes, $300. And my brother is like, hey, man, they look at my shoes.

Oh, damn. And I was like, oh, he's right. He's like the only black doctor in a practice of four doctors. The other three are white doctors. And they look at his shoes. And he feels that. And so there's this tax where he's going to spend more on shoes when his partners, arguably, I don't know what they're wearing in real life, but I mean, in theory.

Oh, damn. And I was like, oh, he's right. He's like the only black doctor in a practice of four doctors. The other three are white doctors. And they look at his shoes. And he feels that. And so there's this tax where he's going to spend more on shoes when his partners, arguably, I don't know what they're wearing in real life, but I mean, in theory.