Derek Fordjour

You see what I'm saying? Yeah, so now you're forcing me to have a real conversation. I mean, that's why we're here. I guess that's why I'm here.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah, so now you're forcing me to have a real conversation. I mean, that's why we're here. I guess that's why I'm here.

Yeah, this is what he does. Because I'm so well attuned to switching the conversation, given the context and how it's going to be received. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. And so there's a lot of posturing and withholding that's necessary. Because with art, you want the conversation... to be about the work and you don't want the traps to happen where it gets into places that you have no investment.

Yeah, this is what he does. Because I'm so well attuned to switching the conversation, given the context and how it's going to be received. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. And so there's a lot of posturing and withholding that's necessary. Because with art, you want the conversation... to be about the work and you don't want the traps to happen where it gets into places that you have no investment.

It is. I'll give you an example. Absolutely.

It is. I'll give you an example. Absolutely.

Oh, this is true.

Oh, this is true.

Not the messy parts of it. Yeah, not the messy parts of it. Right, right. I was looking at this idea called stereotype threat, which I came across 20 years ago. There's a guy named Claude Steele who talks about not racism. the anticipation of racism happening has deleterious effects.

Not the messy parts of it. Yeah, not the messy parts of it. Right, right. I was looking at this idea called stereotype threat, which I came across 20 years ago. There's a guy named Claude Steele who talks about not racism. the anticipation of racism happening has deleterious effects.

Like, if I don't even encounter it, but I think on the other side of this door it might happen, it affects how I present myself. right? And Schrodinger's racism. I like that. Right. So, so stereotype threat is an additional anxiety.

Like, if I don't even encounter it, but I think on the other side of this door it might happen, it affects how I present myself. right? And Schrodinger's racism. I like that. Right. So, so stereotype threat is an additional anxiety.

There's the thing, which is actually racism that you have to contend with, but your anticipation of it, how you steal yourself, how you, you know, that is also like very anxious. So that's a lot of what my work is about is the strategy of, the gamesmanship necessary to traverse a troubled space, right? And the art world, and you're right, has been troubled.

There's the thing, which is actually racism that you have to contend with, but your anticipation of it, how you steal yourself, how you, you know, that is also like very anxious. So that's a lot of what my work is about is the strategy of, the gamesmanship necessary to traverse a troubled space, right? And the art world, and you're right, has been troubled.

It's tough for us, but I have to acknowledge all of the artists that came before me and my peers to make this moment possible. I sound like I'm giving an award speech, but I think it's really just important to acknowledge because those are the artists that people just don't know at all.

It's tough for us, but I have to acknowledge all of the artists that came before me and my peers to make this moment possible. I sound like I'm giving an award speech, but I think it's really just important to acknowledge because those are the artists that people just don't know at all.

And I'm not saying they're the only ones. No, no, no, for sure. Just a few. It's a complicated question because... there's a moment that the art world starts to take notice of black artists. But then there have been artists working way before that that were just never acknowledged at all. So there's a lot of retrospective work that's happening to acknowledge art.

And I'm not saying they're the only ones. No, no, no, for sure. Just a few. It's a complicated question because... there's a moment that the art world starts to take notice of black artists. But then there have been artists working way before that that were just never acknowledged at all. So there's a lot of retrospective work that's happening to acknowledge art.

So it's kind of like saying, like if we were to use an NBA analogy, like, Like, we all know, like, Michael Jordan was the first guy that showed us you could have astronomical commercial success while you have success on the court, right? So there's no Kobe. There's no LeBron without Jordan. But there was also Dr. J, right? I'm with you. And there was also Wilt Chamberlain, right?

So it's kind of like saying, like if we were to use an NBA analogy, like, Like, we all know, like, Michael Jordan was the first guy that showed us you could have astronomical commercial success while you have success on the court, right? So there's no Kobe. There's no LeBron without Jordan. But there was also Dr. J, right? I'm with you. And there was also Wilt Chamberlain, right?