Dominic

The revolution is in complete flux.

Nobody knows necessarily the Khomeini is going to win and what role he's going to play in the new regime.

And there are other power brokers, I guess, other Ayatollahs.

It's obvious to us now, looking back, that we impose a pattern on it, that we think, okay, these guys are obviously always going to win.

Yeah.

You know, but in his case, it surely makes a massive difference that he's Iranian, that he's born in Iran and that he's a Muslim.

Yeah.

So he's, he has, you know, two cards to play with the regime, I guess that a Western photographer would not have.

So should we look at some of the other photos that he took?

So we did Operation, the operation in the desert, Operation Eagle Claw.

Colonel Charlie Beckwith and his attempt to rescue the hostages.

um with delta force obviously disaster for the americans and disaster for jimmy carter's presidency and actually i hadn't seen this until you showed it to me it's not terribly well known so he went out to the desert and it really is the middle of nowhere you look at it on google maps and took a photograph of the wreckage of the uh of the helicopter i guess it's an image of humiliation for the united yeah it is isn't it for the americans yeah it's absolutely about the humiliation i mean it just best laid plans and all that so and just as an image

It's the image of the crashed wreckage against the emptiness, I guess, of the desert and the huge wide horizon.

Oh, no, they didn't go back.

They didn't go back.

No, they didn't go back.

I mean, that's the amazing thing.

They abandoned the stuff, but also in the helicopter were the plans of the mission.

Right.

And the Iranians were able to get the kind of charred fragments of paper and exhibit them to the world.