Dr. Alan O'Sullivan

We had what we describe as the illiberal democracy of Viktor Orban in Hungary.

And we're recording this on the 17th of April.

And we have a week since Peter Magyar, I think you pronounce his name, won the election in Hungary, his TISA party.

But what struck for me was that there was a huge turnout, 80%, something like 80% turnout, number one, which was really impressive.

And number two was the scale of his victory.

So there's two things that jumped out for me.

What's your reading of it?

I think our lived experience, this so-called global peace dividend arose from, you know, the misery and disaster of World War II and all the institutions that were created there.

They were created as a consequence of all that misery.

And we often forget that.

And just the point I'd make on your social contract, you talked about Trump.

I always say to the

to students that President Trump didn't emerge in a vacuum you could go back to China's ascension to the WTO all this hollowing out of the middle class that happened you know we followed the rules it just hasn't worked out for us we want to try something else and that

populism thrives in that type of environment I think populist politics but just a final point I share your pessimism on Hungary also because just for something that might get your opinion on finally is that am I right in saying that

Hungary is very reliant, number one, on cheap Russian energy.

That's the first thing I would say.

And another interesting point I would say is that Orban fulfilled a very interesting and useful role for perhaps some of the European countries that weren't as enthusiastic about Ukraine.

He perhaps was a mudguard as such.

That mudguard now is gone.

So it might reveal some interesting consequences over the next couple of months.