Dr. Alan O'Sullivan

politics, I mean, and we we cast our mind back to all those big speeches, pre-election, America first, no foreign wars, keeping Trump's troops at home.

And and.

President Trump was really an isolationist, you could argue, in terms of foreign policy.

Where has this come from, this what I would call an incredible miscalculation?

Why has he turned about in such a massive way?

It's really fascinating looking at this conflict, I think, through the prism of U.S.-China relations, U.S.-Russia-China relations.

So we know that Russia, Mr. Putin is quite happy with everything that's been going on, but try to get a handle on China's view on this.

What's your interpretation of how China sits with this at the moment, Matt?

I was listening to an interview Jeff Curry did.

Jeff Curry, former Goldman Sachs head of research.

And he was talking about the parallels between this supply shock and the demand shock during COVID.

So the demand shock drove oil prices down, obviously, because everybody was at home.

And this supply shock is driving prices up.

But he couched them in very similar terms, Matt.

And his big takeaway was,

How, in the name of God, are oil prices only $100, $120 a bar?

So this is a market misconception that he thinks.

Would you support that view?

And I know that's a tricky question.

I mean, let's say these talks are successful.