Dr. Angel Foster

But the thing that I'm watching, and again, I say this as a non-lawyer, but as someone who's been following what's going on in state legislatures, what I see in terms of anti-abortion movement rhetoric, is that I fear that there is going to be a continued push to criminalize the abortion patient.

And, you know, 10 years ago, this was almost unthinkable that the anti-abortion rights movement would say out loud that a strategy for reducing the number of abortions was to put abortion seekers or abortion patients in jail.

But now we're seeing...

We're seeing more and more of this conversation in the press, and we're also seeing state legislatures kind of taking this up.

And, you know, that is just, that's just devastating.

That's just so awful.

It's only a handful of countries in the world where there are abortion bans, where women and other pregnancy-capable people have actually gone to jail.

So it's upsetting that I think this is the direction.

And I think part of the reason that this is the direction that at least some part of the anti-abortion rights movement is going in is because the number of abortions have actually increased since Dobbs.

Even if Shilba providers all went away tomorrow, even if mifepristone by telemedicine was no longer available, people will still be able to get mifepristone and mesoprostol.

They'll be able to get that through community networks.

They'll be able to get medication abortion pills through international clinics.

That's not going to go away.

I agree with you.

I mean, I think we're seeing some slight shifts in the Overton window.

And I think this is a good example of that, where, you know, I think back to when Donald Trump was running the first time and was asked in an interview about whether or not a woman who has an abortion should go to jail if abortion is illegal.

And he said yes.

And it felt like the entire anti-abortion rights community at that point was like,

no, that's not the message.

You can't say that.