Dr. Caroline Leaf

Oh, Ed, I wouldn't have missed this.

Thank you so much for that lovely introduction.

And I just absolutely love talking to you.

We had the most amazing talk on when I interviewed you, and I think you're incredible as well.

So thank you.

Love your question.

It's brilliant.

And it's so important.

Yes, I grew up, I was born in Zimbabwe and that had enough, that country alone had enough problems and still has.

And then grew up in South Africa and all my kids were born there.

And we've been in the States now for 13 years.

So I was in South Africa in the apartheid era and the transition and the post.

And so by the time I had my first child, my second child, that Mandela came into power, I was carrying my newborn baby to go vote for Mandela, literally, and with our housekeeper.

And that's how significant that is in my lifetime.

But I was working in the pre-apartheid, the pre-transition, in the apartheid era.

And it was horrific.

I chose to, I worked across all socioeconomic strata and different political areas.

So from the riches of the rich to the poorest of the poor, education, corporate.

And I spent three days a week working in what they called the townships, which were areas that they had two apartheid separated out, absolutely evil.

And the reason I chose to work in all the different environments was to understand mind and humanity.