Dr Chris Harding

Brilliant.

It turns out they weren't read.

They're just not well-thumbed because people weren't interested.

So it's a funny old period.

It made sense for the Japanese to do this, to insulate themselves from particularly European interference.

But all the action that you've just talked about, the Japanese had only the tiniest idea of that French Revolution, American Revolution.

They were either ill-informed or they got the Dutch version, which was kind of warped to Dutch interests, I think.

Well, this is another funny thing, I think, for Japan.

So they had had firearms since the middle of the 16th century.

The Portuguese brought them.

But then after that, there's more or less zero innovation for two and a half centuries, which from the point of view of...

ordinary Japanese people is just as you might have wanted it.

Because if you're not innovating, it means that you're not having to fight any wars.

If you think about the speed at which drone innovation happens now, right?

Yeah, the British and French are innovating fast, because they want to kill each other in ever increasing numbers.

Yeah, exactly.

Whereas Japan, their firearms, they're getting dusty somewhere.

They might get taken out and played with.

Or the armour, the samurai armour.

Now you wouldn't have it in a place in your house where you might in a hurry put it on and rush out to fight.