Dr. Christopher Gardner

don't concern me more than any of the other things that are in the package, processed foods, and partly because those are almost impossible to study. So in my world, if somebody says this thing is a health concern or health benefit, I have to think, how would I study that? And what is the outcome? So really my world is what is the exposure and what is the outcome? Can I get funded to do that?

And if the outcome is heart disease or cancer or diabetes, I immediately write it off. I can't wait till somebody dies. or goes to the hospital. I won't be able to publish my paper and I won't be able to keep my job at Stanford. I have to publish quicker. So most of my career has been very cardiometabolic oriented.

And if the outcome is heart disease or cancer or diabetes, I immediately write it off. I can't wait till somebody dies. or goes to the hospital. I won't be able to publish my paper and I won't be able to keep my job at Stanford. I have to publish quicker. So most of my career has been very cardiometabolic oriented.

And if the outcome is heart disease or cancer or diabetes, I immediately write it off. I can't wait till somebody dies. or goes to the hospital. I won't be able to publish my paper and I won't be able to keep my job at Stanford. I have to publish quicker. So most of my career has been very cardiometabolic oriented.

So I can move somebody's blood cholesterol, blood glucose, inflammatory markers, insulin in weeks. And sometimes say, oh, my God, how come you didn't do this for years? Well, because most of the effect happened in the first two weeks. I did it for eight weeks or I did it for six months. But really, the effect plateaued in weeks if it was the cardiometabolic risk factor here.

So I can move somebody's blood cholesterol, blood glucose, inflammatory markers, insulin in weeks. And sometimes say, oh, my God, how come you didn't do this for years? Well, because most of the effect happened in the first two weeks. I did it for eight weeks or I did it for six months. But really, the effect plateaued in weeks if it was the cardiometabolic risk factor here.

So I can move somebody's blood cholesterol, blood glucose, inflammatory markers, insulin in weeks. And sometimes say, oh, my God, how come you didn't do this for years? Well, because most of the effect happened in the first two weeks. I did it for eight weeks or I did it for six months. But really, the effect plateaued in weeks if it was the cardiometabolic risk factor here.

So if you want to ask me what a dye does, I'd have to randomize people to sort of get the exposure or not. So the same food with or without the dye. And I would have to have an outcome. There's really not many outcomes. Your cholesterol wouldn't move. Your blood glucose wouldn't move. If it was the same for everything except the dye, those measures would not move.

So if you want to ask me what a dye does, I'd have to randomize people to sort of get the exposure or not. So the same food with or without the dye. And I would have to have an outcome. There's really not many outcomes. Your cholesterol wouldn't move. Your blood glucose wouldn't move. If it was the same for everything except the dye, those measures would not move.

So if you want to ask me what a dye does, I'd have to randomize people to sort of get the exposure or not. So the same food with or without the dye. And I would have to have an outcome. There's really not many outcomes. Your cholesterol wouldn't move. Your blood glucose wouldn't move. If it was the same for everything except the dye, those measures would not move.

So the idea is you give it to a rat in a huge dose and you see if they get cancer. And it makes metabolic sense. That creates a plausibility that this is a carcinogen. But it's really hard to test and think of. You just said you couldn't keep track of how many red dyes there were or blue dyes. or yellow dyes, combined with emulsifiers and gelling agents and colorants and anti- or glazing agents.

So the idea is you give it to a rat in a huge dose and you see if they get cancer. And it makes metabolic sense. That creates a plausibility that this is a carcinogen. But it's really hard to test and think of. You just said you couldn't keep track of how many red dyes there were or blue dyes. or yellow dyes, combined with emulsifiers and gelling agents and colorants and anti- or glazing agents.

So the idea is you give it to a rat in a huge dose and you see if they get cancer. And it makes metabolic sense. That creates a plausibility that this is a carcinogen. But it's really hard to test and think of. You just said you couldn't keep track of how many red dyes there were or blue dyes. or yellow dyes, combined with emulsifiers and gelling agents and colorants and anti- or glazing agents.

There's a list. So this NOVA classification put together by Carlos Montero from Brazil. is like the hot topic in the world of ultra-processed food. So for the last decade, if you will look, papers coming out every month talking about ultra-processed, and if you look at that paper, it's the NOVA classification.

There's a list. So this NOVA classification put together by Carlos Montero from Brazil. is like the hot topic in the world of ultra-processed food. So for the last decade, if you will look, papers coming out every month talking about ultra-processed, and if you look at that paper, it's the NOVA classification.

There's a list. So this NOVA classification put together by Carlos Montero from Brazil. is like the hot topic in the world of ultra-processed food. So for the last decade, if you will look, papers coming out every month talking about ultra-processed, and if you look at that paper, it's the NOVA classification.

So an interesting thing, just to make this clear, and we can stop if this is too far down the rabbit hole, but the NOVA classification is agnostic to nutrition. He doesn't care how much fat or cholesterol or fiber is in there. His whole point in making this was... There's something beyond that. I know we're worried about lack of fiber, too much saturated fat, something else.

So an interesting thing, just to make this clear, and we can stop if this is too far down the rabbit hole, but the NOVA classification is agnostic to nutrition. He doesn't care how much fat or cholesterol or fiber is in there. His whole point in making this was... There's something beyond that. I know we're worried about lack of fiber, too much saturated fat, something else.

So an interesting thing, just to make this clear, and we can stop if this is too far down the rabbit hole, but the NOVA classification is agnostic to nutrition. He doesn't care how much fat or cholesterol or fiber is in there. His whole point in making this was... There's something beyond that. I know we're worried about lack of fiber, too much saturated fat, something else.

But isn't there something to the colorants and the flavorants and the gelling agents, et cetera, that could be separate from all this? And he, in his analysis, said if I parse that out in the data that I'm looking at, that has an additive effect. All these other things. And he's made a big case for it. And people are publishing papers on it all the time.