Dr. David Rosmarin
Appearances
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And we couldn't potentially even use those lower levels of anxiety in a constructive, positive, healthy way to help us to thrive and to grow in our lives.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Okay. There are cognitive aspects, things that are going on in your mind. There are physiological or emotional aspects. And then there are behavioral aspects, usually avoidance, but maybe some checking. So let's go through them. The cognitive aspects, worry, apprehension, you're nervous something's going to happen, focusing on the negative thoughts spinning in your head.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
If I go to this event, somebody will judge me. I will have a panic attack. I'm not going to feel good. I'm not going to be able to manage it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
At best, maybe even worse. Never have another date again, right? This is my only opportunity.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Sure, sure, sure. And then there's the physiological. So that's something, you know, the sweaty palms, the upset stomach, labored breathing. And that's really adrenaline, which is going through one system and it creates those, the cotton mouth, it creates these symptoms that people have and the feeling associated with that foreboding, you know, those kinds of emotions that go along with it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
That's the constellation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Sure. Why do babies, right when they're born, let out this massive scream?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Yeah, and it's kind of new and scary. And like they've been in this comfortable little bubble for however many months. And they're in this, all of a sudden, this different environment. And there's lights and there's people and there's breathing, like you mentioned. And there's a digestion change and heart changes and all sorts of stuff all at once. And a healthy child will go, ah, and freak out.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And if they don't freak out, what do we say? Uh-oh. Exactly. You call in a neurologist. Those kids usually don't survive.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
You're a healthy person. On a stressful day at work, if you're not having a little bit of, your hands aren't a little bit clammy and you're not feeling a little bit jazzed up, you don't recognize that there's a task for you to do. There's something important. You may be disconnected from the meaning of your work. You might be disconnected from the relationship you have with your peers.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
That doesn't sound like a good work colleague. Having a little bit of apprehension and anxiety and nervousness walking into those situations shows that you care.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I love your specific example of parents and children. Little Jimmy or Jenny comes home. They feel a little bit anxious. And the parent themselves is a little anxious themselves. And they're freaked out about the fact that their kid is feeling anxious. So what do they do? Try to put out the fire. They try to calm them down. They try to say everything's going to be okay. They give them reassurance.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Say, you don't have to go to school. Don't worry. You don't have to go to that event. We accommodate them. As opposed to... Oh, you're feeling anxious. That sounds interesting. Tell me more. With no judgment, just explore it and actually create a more deep connection between parent and child. Ask questions. What is little Jimmy or Jenny afraid of and why? Is it embarrassment?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Are they afraid of messing up and being overly responsible? Are they afraid of the physical sensations? Do they feel like a failure? Are they afraid of losing friends? ask them lots of questions. And without trying to change it, don't try to change how they're thinking, how they're feeling, their behavior in any way. Just be there with them while they feel anxious.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
They just want you to connect with them. Turn into a point of connection as opposed to a moment of education. We are missing this fundamental perspective on anxiety and it's having disastrous consequences for those micro moments. We judge others, we judge ourselves for feeling anxious and we go down the tubes in a hot second because of it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Definitely don't do that. You're just actually making it worse because why? Because you're conveying a message. I wouldn't even say it's subliminal or subconscious. It's direct. You are directly showing your child something is wrong here, and they become afraid of their anxiety as a result.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
misinterpreting it as a problem or a weakness or a disease or that something is wrong with you, as opposed to this is a normal human emotion. And then once we accept that, What do I do with it?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Sure. The four steps are as follows. Identify, share, embrace, and let go. I'll explain each one. Identify means getting to the root. What are you truly afraid of? Instead of putting it out of your mind, instead of squelching the symptoms, go there. Think about it. Get to what's actually bothering you. Two, share. Talk about it with someone else. Open up about it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Make it a point of connection as opposed to sitting in a state of loneliness. Three, embrace your favorite. Do that which makes you feel anxious when you're ready and at a rate that you're comfortable with. But that is the path for emotional resilience. And finally, let go. There are certain things we can't control. Anxiety is always surrounded around control.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And at a certain point, we need to let go. To the extent that you can do that, you've completed the four steps.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Yep. So if he were here, I would want to know what's the focus of his apprehension. That's a very fancy way of saying what's at the root of his anxiety. Can we identify what is he really afraid of? When you vomit, it's unpleasant. Is it taste? Is it embarrassing yourself? Is it some sort of just the gag reflex and you just don't like how it feels? But if so, I'd want to know what about it
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Did he watch a video once and there's an association with that video? I would have a whole bunch of questions here to ask with no judgment, simply to explore what about that situation is so upsetting for him.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Hold on, that it's going to happen and you're not there is important. What about vomiting without mom is upsetting? I'd want to know that. Based on what they say, I'm going to probe a little bit further and get like, what about that specifically is going to be upsetting to you?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I'll tell you what I often think it is about throwing up. There's an association because like the kid threw up at some point and one of the parents cleaned it up and it was not pleasant. Mm. For anyone. Oh, so we shamed them. Well, there's a bit of a fear of that. I'm not saying that you did. By the way, the therapist in me really wants to probe for your over-responsibility for your kid's anxiety.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I'm dying to do that, but I don't want to turn this into a therapy session, so we'll stay on topic. With regards to whatever it is, though, you want to probe and really get down to the root of it. And I think this is something we can do ourselves.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Right? Yes. I'm going to feel ashamed if I throw up. It's embarrassing. Someone else is going to have to clean it up. And if it's someone else's house and I'm doing a sleepover, it's like someone else's mom and dad, like, ugh, that's a valid fear.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
That's exactly correct.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
So let's go to the second step. Well, the second step is sharing. Okay. Sharing your emotions, the core of it, with someone else... can create connection with someone. Now, you have to share with purpose, right? And there's not everyone in all circumstances can you share with them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
If you're sharing with a stressed out loved one who's coming back after a really nasty business trip or really they're going through a hard time themselves, they might not be able to hear it right now. But sharing it in a certain context and being clear, I need you to validate me. I just need you to hear me out. I'm feeling anxious. I want you to be here and present with me and then sharing it
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
can create more intimacy and connection between parents and children, certainly between loved ones, between friends. I've even seen it happen with strangers where people open up to each other like, hey, I feel that way too. Like instant connection.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
What's the third step after you tell somebody? Once we share and we're connected to people, embrace the anxiety.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Face it. Do something that makes you anxious.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I know, but you also don't want to go to the gym to build your physical muscles, but you do that. That's true. Why doesn't every school in the United States of America have a mental, emotional agility resilience building by doing something that makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable? As long as it's safe and it's something that you want to do, do it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Sure. There's this brilliant approach called the five second rule.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
That's what it is. I'm getting out of bed even though I feel like hell right now. I'm going to do this. I don't want to, you know, I've had people with a fear of snakes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I literally have a guy on speed dial who I can, should I bring him in?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
That's fine. You're not ready for it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Exposure therapy. Yeah. Chapter three.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It's a very, very good tool. And when you have clinical anxiety, it has to be part of the picture. If you're not going to face your anxiety eventually, it's going to be hard to get over it. But I think it's one step. I think we do have to identify it. We do have to share it. We do have to embrace it. I think there's something beyond it, but let's focus on exposure therapy for now.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
You're going to fly at some point when you're ready. We're going to take, by the way, are you more nervous about short hauls or long hauls? Me? No, just let's make it up. Oh, got it. Probably smaller planes. Smaller planes. Great. Perfect. So there's an airline that goes out of Boston Logan called Cape Air. It's got like seven seats. I think it's eight. And one of them is actually in the cockpit.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And I've been in it. It's a Cessna plane. It's basically a minivan with wings. Dr. Russ Martin, I would quit as your patient. Do you actually get people to do this? Sure. I was going to say it's a lot of fun, but not only is it fun for me, it's fun for them at a certain point because they are embracing their anxiety and saying, I can do this. I'm not going to let it get in my way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
What about shyness? Great. Harder to target. Tends to be longer term. Tends to be focused. Also comorbid with depression. People get a lot more depressed. Because if you're shy, you're more disconnected from others, more isolated, more alone. We're sad.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
So often building that person up first is important clinically through more identification and a lot more sharing, not just for the therapist, but also with other people in their world, sometimes posting on social media, whatever it is. But at a certain point, they're going to have to go to the party and not have a martini.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Because the martini is an anxiolytic.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Big word for saying it reduces your anxiety.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And then you're ruminating about all the stuff that you said that you shouldn't have said because you're a little bit tipsy.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Great. So let's just say these hands have been in many places that I will not tell you about. Today? Not today. Not today. Don't worry. And I do wash my hands before I eat. But before washing my hands and before eating, you'd be surprised where these go. Because part of being an anxiety therapist means you have to do everything that your patients do also.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Okay, so I'm thinking of a specific patient who came in who was terrified of germs and for many years had been avoiding all sorts of situations.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Really wouldn't open car doors, certainly wouldn't ride the subway, and was at one point putting gloves on their hands, lots of Purell, lots of excessive washing, had actually had very significant chafing, even needed some medical treatments in order to be able to deal with abrasions on their hands from all the washing. And
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Really, we started with touching things that would make them feel uncomfortable. Started with things in the office. It could have been as simple as this desk surface. It could have been things that, you know, in the bathroom would be next.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And eventually moving towards the inside of a toilet bowl or things that are way over the top that you wouldn't normally do in order for them to develop the resilience to stand up to their anxiety head on.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
The first step is always the same, which is do you want to do this? Once somebody wants to face their anxiety and build their resilience, by deliberately putting themselves in an anxiety-provoking situation, like once you catch the bug, like once you want to do it, there's nothing that'll stop you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
So we prep people beforehand. They will think, I can't do this. I'm not going to be able to handle this. My anxiety is going to spike. I'm going to get sick. All of those thoughts are going to be rocketing through your head because that's what facing anxiety entails. That's part of the process. And that is exactly why it's an opportunity to build emotional resilience.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Often we see a significant drop in anxiety even after once or twice from doing it, but sometimes it does require many, many more repetitions. In some ways, it depends on how long they've been avoiding situations. If people have been avoiding germs and microbes and all sorts of things for decades, it might take a while for them to get through it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
But it's kind of like a mortgage, like eventually you pay it off.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
When we push kids to do things that they don't want to do, there's a balance. And helping scaffold kids that they want to do it, selling them on it, so to speak, onboarding. We talk about onboarding kids, onboarding teens. Once somebody recognizes this will help build my resilience, this will help make me a stronger emotional person, then they're like, okay, I'm in.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And at a certain point with planes, you might be there too. Like, you know what? I want to do this. I don't want this to get in my way in any way. I want to be more fearless in my life. Just like you want to learn how to pump iron or be able to run a marathon or run at a certain time pace or whatever it is. We all have our fitness goals. And I think we should also have our emotional goals.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
We don't have that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It takes so much of the edge off as opposed to giving me more of a reason to be anxious about my anxiety. It normalizes and makes it so much more manageable. It's just a different, that different framework. It's kind of like having glasses that are like a different color. It just changes the whole view of everything around you. And by the way, it's not just the parents and the teachers.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It actually comes from the medical profession. Something crazy happened last summer. Something very unfortunate. What happened?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Well, there was a federally funded panel of physicians in the United States who came up with, I think it was in some ways, I think it was well-intended and I think it was a good idea to screen all patients at their annual PCP visits, primary care physician visits, for anxiety.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Now, I have no problems with screening people for anxiety, but the way it's done, well, the recommendation was to use the GAD-2, which is a two-item measure. It asks how much anxiety have you had in the last two weeks and how much worry have you had in the last two weeks.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Well, the cutoff, who's going to say zero to any of those questions? Right. The cutoff was set at a zero, which means any modicum of anxiety or stress over the last two weeks is actually enough to flag a person today in their PCP office for clinical anxiety and treatment. What?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It's the latter, but it's actually both. We are definitely over-diagnosing lower levels of human stress and anxiety as a pathology, as opposed to something normal. I agree with you. Who have you met in the last two weeks who have had no anxiety and no worry?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Yeah. And it could have been at a certain point, you shouldn't have gone off of it. You should have stayed on it and you needed it in order to function.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
No. I'll tell you the way I think about it. Anxiety occurs on a scale of zero to 10. But really there's no zeros because no one has zero anxiety and there's no 10 because that would be literally catastrophic. So we're left with one to nine.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
One, two, three is low. Four, five, six is medium. Seven, eight, nine is high. If you're into seven or eight and a nine, you probably need something professional to take it down to a mid-range.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Yeah, if you can't sleep because of your anxiety, that's a dysfunctional issue. That's something that has to be addressed.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Four, five, six. So that now depends. Some people can function actually reasonably well at a four, five, and a six. Six may be less likely, but a four and a five for sure.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It depends on what's going on. Are they an emergency room doctor? Are they, you know, going through med school? Are they going through a breakup? Are they starting a new, they have a new baby? You know, then okay. Like people have periods of time where they might ramp up and that actually might enhance their performance. It might enhance their connection.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Well, you know, that is important. The situational aspect is very important. But how you are sort of engaging in your anxiety. Like I said, the four, five, and six, are you able to use that level of anxiety in a constructive, positive way?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I don't know. I think a lot of people might be like, hey, I'm building, I'm an entrepreneur. They're starting a new business. They're having a battle of a time. They're feeling stressed out, might've gained a couple pounds. And they know that they're at a four or five and a six, but they're like, but I'm going to get through this.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
So that often we see that as the goal. I'm not sure I do. I think that if, firstly, with medication, clinicians often overpromise and they say, I'm going to get your anxiety down to a one and it's going to stay there. I'm not sure that's even helpful.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Validate, validate, validate. There's a reason why they don't want to go to the sleepover. And even if it doesn't make sense to you, it makes sense to their anxiety. You have to delve into that anxiety with them and allow them to explore it. The more you say, oh, there's no reason to be upset, the more they're just going to think that their anxiety is a problem.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
They might not even be conscious of what they're afraid of. But if you just ask them, why wouldn't you want to go to a sleepover? Not judging, just asking.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Yeah, that would be upsetting.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I understand then why you wouldn't want to have a sleepover.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Yeah. Well, that's the comfort thing. By the way, the kid just changed the topic. Now we're talking about comfort as opposed to anxiety. So I would probably double back and say like, well, what about that Mrs. So-and-so would have to call you up and you'd have to pick me up and be a whole thing. What about it? Would people be talking about it the next day? Would it be a social thing?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Would it be, are you more embarrassed about the parents thinking about you, about your friend? Would you feel worse about yourself? And just to explore it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
But when we unpack it, we actually learn who the kid is. If you snuff out the anxiety, you'll never know what's really going on.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Women have about twice as much clinical anxiety as men. Why? They tend to be a lot harder on themselves and judge themselves for being anxious and don't really allow themselves to experience those feelings. If a guy's feeling anxious, like, well, something's wrong. And like, there must be a reason. Yeah. No, you know, women are more like something's wrong with me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
No, I think men will often snuff out the anxiety a little bit more and be a little more disconnected from it. We see higher instances of substance and alcohol abuse. And that's usually, you know, often happens when people are feeling anxious and don't want to talk about it, don't want to think about it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It is terrifying, but therein lies the opportunity. That's what creates the opportunity for self-discovery. The reason you're freaking out about it is because it matters. So identify what's at the root of it. Share it with someone else. Embrace it when you're ready. And then the next step is letting go, which is the hardest one. But that's where it's really all about.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I think all human beings would benefit from acknowledging the limits of what we can control. And leaning into that and letting go, there's a difference between losing control where it's taken away from us involuntarily versus giving up control like you do on a roller coaster. True. That latter experience when we don't have control over a situation. So if we're like, okay, it ain't my wheel. Right.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Then the anxiety can actually be an uplifting, exhilarating experience where we lean into the fact that we aren't in control and that's okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Yes. That somehow something in your humanity will be able to rise to the challenge. Who knows how? Who knows when? Who knows where? Methods are unclear. The path is opaque. But I'm going to continue to trot along it with some sort of level of surrender.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Right, or California wildfires.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
This is where the let go comes in. There is only so much that human beings can control in this world. I don't want that answer. You know, you're the one who says it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I can't face my own anxiety. Like you wouldn't believe and letting go. The truth is coming from a spiritual and religious tradition. Like I think I have an advantage here because this is the kind of message that I've been, you know, brought up with and that I, you know, attend sermons about and, human beings are not the architects of all of world events. That's just not the way it goes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
We're not in charge of the weather. We're not in charge of certain things, but we're in charge of a lot. And by refocusing on that, which is within our purview and is within our control, that's using anxiety in a constructive, positive way, because that will motivate me to get up in the morning, do what I got to do, push ahead, face that adversity, and
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
have a dream and move towards it as opposed to trying to grasp control over stuff that I don't.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I mean, I don't think you need to be an expert to know that one.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
For sure. I mean, off the cuff, when you feel anxious, don't squelch it. Don't get rid of the symptoms. Don't try to avoid it in your mind. Actually take the time to do a mental inventory. Okay. That could start with a brain dump, as my wife likes to call it. Just dump all the thoughts out, unravel the yarn, take whatever's in your pockets and put it on the table. And then just let it sit there.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
That could take 10, 15 minutes. Okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Okay. Okay. What does that mean? There's going to be one or two trees, so to speak, that have roots and they really go down to a certain level. Sometimes really need to identify them from the other stuff. Often people come in and I ask them, what are you anxious about? And 30 minutes later, it's like, okay, I think there are two or three main themes here. Okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
You can even put it into chat GPT and say like, what are my two main themes?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It's a language processor, right? So you can theoretically just do that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Embrace. We're just identifying.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
We're just identifying. Just go dig. What's at the root of it? What are you really afraid will happen? If your car was parked on the seventh thing and it starts to roll, whatever it is.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It's usually one thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Being alone. People are afraid of being alone, being abandoned. Wow. I know when I've hit that, when I'm asking a patient live, firstly, when they start to tear up and I can feel the emotion in the moment, then I know I'm getting something. And often when they hit the alone elevator, like when we hit that floor on the elevator, then we're getting somewhere.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
That's the core, usually.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
You embrace it and use it to connect to other people. Find ways to build your resilience with it. And then with regards to letting go, I think that's letting go control that you can actually control it. Okay. But you don't let go of that fear. It's going to be there and that's okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Well, first again, if they're at a 7, 8, or 9, it's probably interfering with their lives in a clinical way, in which case you're probably looking at a professional process. Now this, whether it's the book or whether it's a workshop or whatever it is, people could probably benefit from that as well.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
But I wouldn't want someone who's coming in with a 7, 8, or 9 where it's actually clinical, it's interfering with their lives, to just use a self-help approach. I'd probably want them to get some sort of therapy and or meds.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I don't blame you. You've been taught since birth that something's wrong with you if you're anxious. You've been taught by your parents. You've been taught that by your teachers. You've been taught that by society. You've seen medication advertisements on television.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
For years and years and years, that message was pounded into you that something is clinically, emotionally, maybe even morally wrong with you. This is a failing of your life if you feel anxious. So yeah, I don't blame you for... Having heard this for the first time for barely an hour, that it's not penetrating, yeah, I don't blame you one bit. Wow.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Oh my God, so many ways. You know, I didn't always talk about it. When I got my job at Harvard Medical School, it's not the kind of thing that you speak about, right? Like you're a professor and you stand up and you have your slides and you have your figures and your facts and your data and you don't have your personal experience. Like, no, that would be like beneath everything.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
You know, the dignity of someone within the academy. And then, like I said, over COVID, it really changed for me because aside for the fact that I was just dealing with my own anxiety, I actually saw in my data that the patients who were coming to our programs who had clinical anxiety and got treatment before March 2020 died. did better throughout the rest of the pandemic.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
They did not have an increase, a substantial increase in anxiety. And then I was like, hold on, I'm going about this wrong. I'm treating all anxiety like it's clinical. That's not true. David, you have anxiety too. Embrace it. I started to talk to my wife about it, have some real conversations about my fear of failure.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
She did something like, well, she actually didn't say that. She didn't even say, I told you so. She didn't have to. What did she say? Yeah, she did say, I know, but she held me through it and it made us closer. It created more emotional depth in our connection.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I love what you said about bracing for battle. That's exactly what we do.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
We think of it as the enemy right away, and it's not.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
What are you going to call it? What's the language for you?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Don't judge yourself for feeling anxious. Use it. It's a human emotion. Like any other human emotion, it can be used constructively in your life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
It's such an honor to be here. Like I said, to meet you is super exciting. A little anxiety provoking, but in a good way. Like a two? Like a two?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I am even more excited.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Okay. The most fundamental is to stop judging yourself for feeling anxious, to stop feeling anxious about the fact that you have anxiety in your life. Because everyone does. It's a normal human emotion. In fact, if you don't have anxiety, something's probably wrong. That's number one. And number two, once you accept that it's part of your life, you can use it as an ally instead of an enemy.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I would say it's almost as counterintuitive as let them. What do you mean? Well, I don't want to let them. I want to control them. I want to stop them. these annoying, irritating situations in my life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Once you accept that you can't, that actually becomes a resource for you to become more resilient, more connected to people who are worth connecting to, worth focusing more on things in your life that you can control. And anxiety is the same way. It's kind of like let them for your internal world.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
100%. That's exactly what's happening. Our society is over-medicalizing, over-pathologizing a normal human emotion. Now, don't get me wrong. At a certain point, it does become pathological, but we are conflating clinical pathological anxiety with normal anxiety that all healthy human beings experience.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And in making all of that one big lump of craziness, we have become allergic to the normal side of anxiety, and that's creating the anxiety epidemic today.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
I did this for years myself. I would show up to work, have clammy hands, have a little bit of an upset stomach. My breathing would be a little bit labored because it's a stressful day. And I would say, David, what's wrong with you? Until it was really during the COVID pandemic that it hit me. I'm like, that's not true. We're going through a hard time. We're going to feel somewhat anxious.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
In fact, if I didn't feel anxious, then something would be wrong. And then I realized...
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
we need to bifurcate between normal anxiety which is actually potentially a very great resource to thrive in your life and then clinical anxiety which does need professional treatment whether it's medication or psychotherapy or something more sophisticated and targeted but we're getting it wrong and it's having disastrous consequences especially for kids how does being nervous or feeling on edge how is that an example of thriving
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Well, it does depend what you do with it. Okay. If we take those nerves, those regular healthy anxiety feelings, sensations, thoughts that are going through, and we actually get to the bottom of it, we probe, we think about what's making us anxious, we can become more self-aware, right?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
If we share it with someone else... We can broaden and deepen our connections with other people and become more intimately related to them. And if we embrace it, well, we can actually build our emotional fortitude to be able to face adversity. And we can also even use it to let go.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And I think that's the process that we have to start using with normal, healthy aspects of anxiety as opposed to get rid of it. And our immediate knee-jerk reaction is get rid of these feelings. Something is wrong with me. I shouldn't be feeling this way. And immediately your adrenaline is going to spike because you're interpreting the lower levels of anxiety as a problem.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
So that's literally going to create a physiological cascade and it dumps more adrenaline into your system.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
Sure. Looking back in the last 20 years, I would probably, if I had to be honest, it's going to be my own anxiety. And this has very much been a personal journey for me. I was taught in graduate school, I was taught in my training to diagnose, treat, help people to get rid of their clinical anxiety.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)
And those tools are still something that I use on a daily basis in a variety of different contexts in my work. But, you know, it took going through the pandemic to actually click into this concept that not all forms of anxiety are problematic and bad.