Dr. Howard Schubiner

Our system is based on the more you do, the more you get paid. As opposed to the healthier you keep people, the more you get paid. Different system. So there's a lot of incentives in that direction that range from not understanding and just doing the thing that you know to actual financial incentives.

Yeah, yeah, it's misleading. And when people learn about this, they're shocked. And they say to me, how come my doctor didn't tell me all this? And it turns out that if you're in your 30s and you're healthy and you have no back pain at all, you're in your 30s, about 35% to 40% of people in their 30s are going to have disc degeneration on an MRI with no pain at all.

Yeah, yeah, it's misleading. And when people learn about this, they're shocked. And they say to me, how come my doctor didn't tell me all this? And it turns out that if you're in your 30s and you're healthy and you have no back pain at all, you're in your 30s, about 35% to 40% of people in their 30s are going to have disc degeneration on an MRI with no pain at all.

Yeah, yeah, it's misleading. And when people learn about this, they're shocked. And they say to me, how come my doctor didn't tell me all this? And it turns out that if you're in your 30s and you're healthy and you have no back pain at all, you're in your 30s, about 35% to 40% of people in their 30s are going to have disc degeneration on an MRI with no pain at all.

30% are going to have disc bulging with no pain at all. These are 30-year-olds, and their MRIs are going to be abnormal with no pain. Why are their MRIs abnormal with no pain? Because an abnormal MRI for these types of mild findings is normal. You know, you look very young to me. and I look at your hair and it's like all black.

30% are going to have disc bulging with no pain at all. These are 30-year-olds, and their MRIs are going to be abnormal with no pain. Why are their MRIs abnormal with no pain? Because an abnormal MRI for these types of mild findings is normal. You know, you look very young to me. and I look at your hair and it's like all black.

30% are going to have disc bulging with no pain at all. These are 30-year-olds, and their MRIs are going to be abnormal with no pain. Why are their MRIs abnormal with no pain? Because an abnormal MRI for these types of mild findings is normal. You know, you look very young to me. and I look at your hair and it's like all black.

But I'm looking at your beard, there might be a little bit of gray in there.

But I'm looking at your beard, there might be a little bit of gray in there.

But I'm looking at your beard, there might be a little bit of gray in there.

I'm just picking that up. Sorry, I'm not to harp on it or anything. But the point is that gray hair is normal for your age, even though you're young. And that gray hair is not a disease. It's not causing you pain unless it bothers you emotionally, I guess. But when we look at MRIs of the spine, that's what we're seeing. We're seeing a little bit of wrinkles.

I'm just picking that up. Sorry, I'm not to harp on it or anything. But the point is that gray hair is normal for your age, even though you're young. And that gray hair is not a disease. It's not causing you pain unless it bothers you emotionally, I guess. But when we look at MRIs of the spine, that's what we're seeing. We're seeing a little bit of wrinkles.

I'm just picking that up. Sorry, I'm not to harp on it or anything. But the point is that gray hair is normal for your age, even though you're young. And that gray hair is not a disease. It's not causing you pain unless it bothers you emotionally, I guess. But when we look at MRIs of the spine, that's what we're seeing. We're seeing a little bit of wrinkles.

People get wrinkles when they're even in their 30s and 40s, a little bit. They get wrinkles. They get a little bit of gray hair when they're in their 30s or 40s. Now, if you take 50-year-olds and you do MRIs on them who are healthy and have no back pain at all, 60% of them are gonna have degenerative discs and 50% are gonna have bulging discs.

People get wrinkles when they're even in their 30s and 40s, a little bit. They get wrinkles. They get a little bit of gray hair when they're in their 30s or 40s. Now, if you take 50-year-olds and you do MRIs on them who are healthy and have no back pain at all, 60% of them are gonna have degenerative discs and 50% are gonna have bulging discs.

People get wrinkles when they're even in their 30s and 40s, a little bit. They get wrinkles. They get a little bit of gray hair when they're in their 30s or 40s. Now, if you take 50-year-olds and you do MRIs on them who are healthy and have no back pain at all, 60% of them are gonna have degenerative discs and 50% are gonna have bulging discs.

And you take 60 year olds, 80% of them have degenerative discs and 70% have bulging discs with no pain at all. So if you have back pain, and you go to a doctor and you're either 30 or 50 or 70, there's a high likelihood that an MRI is gonna show some of these abnormalities, bulging disc, even herniated disc, spinal stenosis, facet arthropathy, arthritis.

And you take 60 year olds, 80% of them have degenerative discs and 70% have bulging discs with no pain at all. So if you have back pain, and you go to a doctor and you're either 30 or 50 or 70, there's a high likelihood that an MRI is gonna show some of these abnormalities, bulging disc, even herniated disc, spinal stenosis, facet arthropathy, arthritis.

And you take 60 year olds, 80% of them have degenerative discs and 70% have bulging discs with no pain at all. So if you have back pain, and you go to a doctor and you're either 30 or 50 or 70, there's a high likelihood that an MRI is gonna show some of these abnormalities, bulging disc, even herniated disc, spinal stenosis, facet arthropathy, arthritis.

All these things are seen in healthy, normal people. So why would we make the assumption that that's the cause of the pain when that is something that also occurs in healthy people with no problem? If you had face pain and the doctor said it's because you're gray, you would laugh. It was ridiculous. But that's exactly what we're doing to people. And so we are very well aware of this.