Dr. Jay Bhattacharya

Well, I mean, it was Francis Collins who wrote those words, which shocked me when I saw them. It was about a year after he wrote the email. It led to death threats on me and hit pieces and a whole bunch of slander. But I personally... personally, I couldn't forgive him. I think he, as a human being, made a mistake.

Well, I mean, it was Francis Collins who wrote those words, which shocked me when I saw them. It was about a year after he wrote the email. It led to death threats on me and hit pieces and a whole bunch of slander. But I personally... personally, I couldn't forgive him. I think he, as a human being, made a mistake.

From the point of view of NIH director, though, it was an abuse of power on his part. And it's a poor example for our scientific leaders to set that kind of example. When we disagree with each other, we disagree with each other with data and we change our minds when we are wrong. I mean, those are just normal things in science.

From the point of view of NIH director, though, it was an abuse of power on his part. And it's a poor example for our scientific leaders to set that kind of example. When we disagree with each other, we disagree with each other with data and we change our minds when we are wrong. I mean, those are just normal things in science.

And for someone like him, and then of course it had this huge impact on the policy we picked. He got his way. He got the lockdowns he wanted. Schools closed in fall 2020. And I've seen him now essentially on an apology tour I just feel sad for him now.

And for someone like him, and then of course it had this huge impact on the policy we picked. He got his way. He got the lockdowns he wanted. Schools closed in fall 2020. And I've seen him now essentially on an apology tour I just feel sad for him now.

He goes around, what he says is that, well, I wasn't looking at all of the harm that these COVID lockdowns were doing to the poor, to the vulnerable children, the working class. And that's just, I mean, I don't understand how you, I mean, I like that he's confessing that he wasn't seeing that. That's a good thing for him to confess.

He goes around, what he says is that, well, I wasn't looking at all of the harm that these COVID lockdowns were doing to the poor, to the vulnerable children, the working class. And that's just, I mean, I don't understand how you, I mean, I like that he's confessing that he wasn't seeing that. That's a good thing for him to confess.

but I don't like that he, he's still justifying saying that the Great Barrington Declaration was somehow wrong or, I mean, the whole purpose of the Great Barrington Declaration was to bring- Because they always go to, they always go to, you just wanted to let it rip, just let it rip.

but I don't like that he, he's still justifying saying that the Great Barrington Declaration was somehow wrong or, I mean, the whole purpose of the Great Barrington Declaration was to bring- Because they always go to, they always go to, you just wanted to let it rip, just let it rip.

the solution to it is exactly what Vanessa just said, like have a broad range of viewpoints at the table, right? The idea of one small group of, I mean, he's a geneticist. He's not even an epidemiologist. He's a geneticist. Like why would he have the wisdom or expertise to know exactly how to organize all of society?

the solution to it is exactly what Vanessa just said, like have a broad range of viewpoints at the table, right? The idea of one small group of, I mean, he's a geneticist. He's not even an epidemiologist. He's a geneticist. Like why would he have the wisdom or expertise to know exactly how to organize all of society?

The principle, the basic principle that they used was that we should treat each other as biohazards, that all humans are simply biohazards and nothing else, right? And it was a predictable failure.

The principle, the basic principle that they used was that we should treat each other as biohazards, that all humans are simply biohazards and nothing else, right? And it was a predictable failure.

And I think if they had had the idea of allowing there to be other voices to speak, not devastating takedowns, but just engagement, critical engagement, that would have been, we would have had a much better outcome from the pandemic.

And I think if they had had the idea of allowing there to be other voices to speak, not devastating takedowns, but just engagement, critical engagement, that would have been, we would have had a much better outcome from the pandemic.

How do you go back from that, Drew? Once you've made that tremendous error, And you know history's going to judge you on that, right? You were in charge of the NIH. You were in charge of the NIAID at the time when this crisis happened, and you made this tremendous mistake. Let's just go further. They may even have caused the pandemic, and that's what Bob Redfield says.

How do you go back from that, Drew? Once you've made that tremendous error, And you know history's going to judge you on that, right? You were in charge of the NIH. You were in charge of the NIAID at the time when this crisis happened, and you made this tremendous mistake. Let's just go further. They may even have caused the pandemic, and that's what Bob Redfield says.

I mean, supported the research that caused the pandemic. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I hope I'm never in that position, but if I am... Yeah, it's horrible. I would want to, I think I could just- It's horrible.

I mean, supported the research that caused the pandemic. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I hope I'm never in that position, but if I am... Yeah, it's horrible. I would want to, I think I could just- It's horrible.