Dr. Jay Bhattacharya

I just didn't understand the mechanisms or the desire for governments to actually work in that way. And especially with the news media, normally I would have thought of them once upon a time as like a check or a balance on that. But in fact, they served as an amplifier for the powerful rather than a check on the powerful. Their conceit that they...

I just didn't understand the mechanisms or the desire for governments to actually work in that way. And especially with the news media, normally I would have thought of them once upon a time as like a check or a balance on that. But in fact, they served as an amplifier for the powerful rather than a check on the powerful. Their conceit that they...

Yeah, I mean, I think early in a pandemic where there is no treatment at all, you want to have the people who are treating the most COVID patients to give you their wisdom. They may be wrong about it. I mean, certainly everyone has something that was wrong early in the pandemic. That's normal to be expected. But they shouldn't be demonized for sharing their hypotheses.

Yeah, I mean, I think early in a pandemic where there is no treatment at all, you want to have the people who are treating the most COVID patients to give you their wisdom. They may be wrong about it. I mean, certainly everyone has something that was wrong early in the pandemic. That's normal to be expected. But they shouldn't be demonized for sharing their hypotheses.

And that's essentially what happened. Like, hydroxychloroquine is a, I mean, I took it when I was a medical student and when I was working in this, like, rural India to prevent malaria. If given the right dose, it's a safe drug. Why was it demonized early? I don't believe, based on the randomized trials I've eventually seen, that it works, but I didn't know that then.

And that's essentially what happened. Like, hydroxychloroquine is a, I mean, I took it when I was a medical student and when I was working in this, like, rural India to prevent malaria. If given the right dose, it's a safe drug. Why was it demonized early? I don't believe, based on the randomized trials I've eventually seen, that it works, but I didn't know that then.

Yeah. I mean, it's really a shocking inversion of how medicine should be, right? So the vaccine, which we didn't know the full set of side effects, is recommended to six-month-old babies for whom there's almost no benefit from it and a potential harm.

Yeah. I mean, it's really a shocking inversion of how medicine should be, right? So the vaccine, which we didn't know the full set of side effects, is recommended to six-month-old babies for whom there's almost no benefit from it and a potential harm.

Whereas like relatively safe drugs, you know, people went and overdosed on ivermectin because they took the veterinary form of it because they couldn't go to a doctor, right? They wanted the drug. It was a relatively safe drug. It gave them the right dose. That whole... that whole craziness led patients to overdose on something that should be a safe drug. Because they couldn't get that.

Whereas like relatively safe drugs, you know, people went and overdosed on ivermectin because they took the veterinary form of it because they couldn't go to a doctor, right? They wanted the drug. It was a relatively safe drug. It gave them the right dose. That whole... that whole craziness led patients to overdose on something that should be a safe drug. Because they couldn't get that.

Because it didn't. I actually looked up some of the, there's a paper that was published from like toxicology calls in like Oregon or something. People that they took, it's not that they took the veterinary medicine, dose by itself, they took a vast overdose. Now imagine if they had a physician to guide them, say, look, here's the right dose.

Because it didn't. I actually looked up some of the, there's a paper that was published from like toxicology calls in like Oregon or something. People that they took, it's not that they took the veterinary medicine, dose by itself, they took a vast overdose. Now imagine if they had a physician to guide them, say, look, here's the right dose.

I'll find it to share. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely correct myself, but it'll be, I'll share.

I'll find it to share. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely correct myself, but it'll be, I'll share.

Well, I think the principle I'm trying to get across, maybe I didn't do a good job explaining it, but the principle I'm trying to get across is that if you say that certain drugs are off limits and they're pretty safe, and people want the thing, It's like a harm reduction idea.

Well, I think the principle I'm trying to get across, maybe I didn't do a good job explaining it, but the principle I'm trying to get across is that if you say that certain drugs are off limits and they're pretty safe, and people want the thing, It's like a harm reduction idea.

Essentially what you're saying is that you're going to make this forbidden, this drug is forbidden, and they'll find ways to get it, and it'll be unsafe because they're getting a version of it that's bad for you. Instead of that normal harm reduction idea, which is at the center of a lot of public health, they decided they were going to say, no, you can't have this drug at all.

Essentially what you're saying is that you're going to make this forbidden, this drug is forbidden, and they'll find ways to get it, and it'll be unsafe because they're getting a version of it that's bad for you. Instead of that normal harm reduction idea, which is at the center of a lot of public health, they decided they were going to say, no, you can't have this drug at all.

In fact, doctors will lose their license if they get the drug. That was a tremendous mistake. And as a result, I think there, I don't know how many cases, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I do remember seeing a paper, Drew, I'll send it to you if I can find it. But that principle of harm reduction was violated by public health when it came to ivermectin. It absolutely was.

In fact, doctors will lose their license if they get the drug. That was a tremendous mistake. And as a result, I think there, I don't know how many cases, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I do remember seeing a paper, Drew, I'll send it to you if I can find it. But that principle of harm reduction was violated by public health when it came to ivermectin. It absolutely was.