Dr. Jay Bhattacharya

And I think if they had had the idea of allowing there to be other voices to speak, not devastating takedowns, but just engagement, critical engagement, that would have been, we would have had a much better outcome from the pandemic.

How do you go back from that, Drew? Once you've made that tremendous error, And you know history's going to judge you on that, right? You were in charge of the NIH. You were in charge of the NIAID at the time when this crisis happened, and you made this tremendous mistake. Let's just go further. They may even have caused the pandemic, and that's what Bob Redfield says.

How do you go back from that, Drew? Once you've made that tremendous error, And you know history's going to judge you on that, right? You were in charge of the NIH. You were in charge of the NIAID at the time when this crisis happened, and you made this tremendous mistake. Let's just go further. They may even have caused the pandemic, and that's what Bob Redfield says.

I mean, supported the research that caused the pandemic. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I hope I'm never in that position, but if I am... Yeah, it's horrible. I would want to, I think I could just- It's horrible.

I mean, supported the research that caused the pandemic. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I hope I'm never in that position, but if I am... Yeah, it's horrible. I would want to, I think I could just- It's horrible.

Yeah, I mean, I think that... Oh, go ahead, Vanessa.

Yeah, I mean, I think that... Oh, go ahead, Vanessa.

I actually did like one book of Foucault's, but maybe we can defend this later. He wrote this book called The Birth of the Clinic, which I read early as a medical student, which is worth… every doctor's, it makes, it's a little humbling actually. Like it makes, it puts the doctor's, he calls it the gaze, the doctor's vision of how they view patients.

I actually did like one book of Foucault's, but maybe we can defend this later. He wrote this book called The Birth of the Clinic, which I read early as a medical student, which is worth… every doctor's, it makes, it's a little humbling actually. Like it makes, it puts the doctor's, he calls it the gaze, the doctor's vision of how they view patients.

He puts it in this like historical context that I think every doctor should see. The broader view, I don't think I can defend, but that book, I think it'd be fun to have a little discussion over.

He puts it in this like historical context that I think every doctor should see. The broader view, I don't think I can defend, but that book, I think it'd be fun to have a little discussion over.

I mean, I think the idea that we could... essentially lock ourselves away, essentially treat humans as if they were like lab rats. If you want to keep lab rats from infecting each other, you just put them in cages far away from each other, right? That's the premise of the lockdown. It seems so intuitive that would work. The problem is like that intuition is just wrong.

I mean, I think the idea that we could... essentially lock ourselves away, essentially treat humans as if they were like lab rats. If you want to keep lab rats from infecting each other, you just put them in cages far away from each other, right? That's the premise of the lockdown. It seems so intuitive that would work. The problem is like that intuition is just wrong.

Human societies are not like rat cages, right? Human societies are very complicated things. And the idea of isolation being healthy, you're absolutely right, Dr. Drew. I mean, it's crazy to think that isolation is healthy. It's one of the worst things you can do to human beings is to isolate them. And to have that as the epitome of good health policy for a full two years makes no sense.

Human societies are not like rat cages, right? Human societies are very complicated things. And the idea of isolation being healthy, you're absolutely right, Dr. Drew. I mean, it's crazy to think that isolation is healthy. It's one of the worst things you can do to human beings is to isolate them. And to have that as the epitome of good health policy for a full two years makes no sense.

The public did not know that there were prominent scientists that disagreed with the lockdown policies.

The public did not know that there were prominent scientists that disagreed with the lockdown policies.

This is moving very fast.

This is moving very fast.

They wanted to create an illusion of consensus. This hurt a lot of people.